Gamekeepers (1 Viewer)

[Grousemore]

if you want decent scientific information don't read newspapers

read scientific journals - it's their purpose after all.

non scientific articles will use silly language that can be jumped on by people for less than scientific aims...such as that Songbird Survival rubbish.

The point wasn't about scientific information and where it should be read, it concerned the way the article in the Times was written; such an article being intended for Times readers in general, not necessarily scientists or birders.

 

[Edward woodwood]

Yeah, i guess Times Readers need very simple language....

 

[TexasFlyway]

As an impartial observer, I read the Times article several times. My overall impression was the author seemed tilted in favor of the gameskeeper point of view.

I am more concerned with the factual points and quotes presented in both the Times article and the excerpt from #1 of this thread. Are they correct? If so what do they scientifically mean, not what one side or the other would like them to mean.

Regarding the veracity of newspaper articles, or any writing for that matter, they are always influenced by the background and views of the author no matter how well he/she tries to suppress them. Some are undoubtedly more successful than others. Likewise the reader also brings his/her own prejudices to fore when reading an article. I myself have been accused of all sorts of affiliations, and intrigues based on people reading “between the lines,” rather than “reading the lines.”

One point the author did make that I agree with is:

“One thing, however, did emerge clearly from our day on the moor. A state of war between the two sides is bad news for the very birds that need protecting.”

Remember that 70’s adage “Believe nothing of what you read, half of what you see, and no one over 30.”

Of course, I am now well past the age cut off, so please disregard everything I have written, including this line. :h?:

 

[Edward woodwood]

so there you have it

if you want the facts, don't read a newspaper. If you do don't bother quoting it to people. So few journalists know anything about investigative reporting these days. I get the impression they just listen to the protagonists and put a slight spin on it.

same goes for most areas of 'news' though, not just birdy stuff unfortunately

the facts are out there but it's too much trouble for a lot of folks to search them out as they have very busy lives.....but it is worth it.

cynically yours
Tim

 

[samuel walker]

We are tossing them back to hell

Interesting stuff. I suspect there is some truth in this take on raptor numbers. What I find disturbing is the proposed actions from the shooting and pigeon racing lobby. Can we persuade these people that slaughter is removing something more valuable than what they save ?

Someone comments unfavourably on the shooting industry's contribution to the economy. I think that comment is totally unfair and only liable to raise hostilities. It is also recognized by RSPB and BTO that management for shooting benefits many forms of wildlife. I think it very unwise to try to denigrate these activities. That seems particularly hypocritical in view of the activities of (a small number of ?) high profile "bird watchers" or "twitchers" who's behaviour could easily be viewed as selfish and damaging to the environment to a ridiculous degree for the ends achieved. Such people are also notorious for going to great lengths to avoid putting any money into the rural economy of the areas they visit.

Perhaps genuine environmentalists should concentrate on understanding better and doing more to support the rural economy rather than laughing at people who genuinely feel their livelihoods are threatened.

Mike.

We took a stand 30 years ago to stop using DDT on farms because bald eagles and peregrine falcons were suffering thin egg shells and few offspring.Both specie have prospered since the chemical was removed from the food chain.But as we removed the poison we have dismantled their habitat with our suburban sprawl and placing them back in jepardy with no where to live.Im sure these raptors will again fall back into decline only because there is no habitat to support them and we will be damned to looking at dead mounts in a museum.
Sam

 

[Rhion]

I get the impression that very few people believe what they read in the newspapers anyway. Perhaps we overestimate their influence - most of their readers are perfectly well aware that their paper has its own agenda and is not concerned with presenting a balanced view of anything.

 

[citrinella]

We took a stand 30 years ago to stop using DDT on farms because bald eagles and peregrine falcons were suffering thin egg shells and few offspring.Both specie have prospered since the chemical was removed from the food chain.But as we removed the poison we have dismantled their habitat with our suburban sprawl and placing them back in jepardy with no where to live.Im sure these raptors will again fall back into decline only because there is no habitat to support them and we will be damned to looking at dead mounts in a museum.
Sam

And as a farmer, I will say I am delighted these chemicals were banned. It is a pity testing even now cannot give absolute answers in advance of chemical use.

As a farmer, I am aware of loads of issues about urban life that I could point at and say "get your house in order". Would it be productive ? Nah ! The solutions I could propose would never be accepted. Such criticism would just be fuelling the country vs urban / class warfare that could become a serious threat to social order in this country.

Mike.

 

[Stewart J.]

Yo All,

Out washing the car this afternoon when the peace was shattered by the sound of shouting and multiple gunshots just over the river (So Tyne) behind the house. One of the usual Saturday Pheasant shoots which take place on the run upto Christmas. Being nosey I went upstairs and scanned the shoot with bino's, the beaters were driving a small wood pushing the birds out towards the guns. Obviously as they broke cover the birds saw the guns and took flight, not many escaped they were so low (and tolerant of man being raised in pens) hardly sport in my opinion, Clays would have been more difficult (sporting?)

Yeh we know it brings money into the area and a glut of Pheasants into the local game butchers so much so they are sold for well below the cost of their rearing. (I'm told £12 to £15 per day cash in hand to the Beaters wonder what a days shooting is worth) Dread to think what else is flushed and shot!

Its a sad old world.

Apologies in advance if this thread starts something but I'm off to rejoin my ship early hours of morning so will not be able to defend myself, hope to be back Xmas Eve so Seasons greetings to all.

Its 21.20hrs and site still online.

Stewart J.

:storm: :storm: :storm: