Help! Coatings on Victory SF being... weird? (1 Viewer)

[LaKu]

Hi lovely bino-people!

I need some help regarding a pair of Victory SF 8x42 I recently purchased.

I was watching some deer in dusk, when suddenly some strange reflection occured, like some kind of ghost of some branches the evening skyglow was coming through. I could only produce it in one of the barrels, no matter what I tried.

Marked in red are the actual branches, blue are "ghost-branches". Sorry for the bad photo, it was getting dark.

I then got inside and checked the objective lenses for a smear or something and discovered something even weirder.

The two barrels reflect the light differently. Very differently. They both have "common" reflections, seemingly of internal elements. The "main" big reflection is green on the right and purple on the left lens though. I turned the bino around to check if it was just a problem of different angles, but no, it remains the same. Whichever lightsource in whichever angle produces a green reflection on the right lens and a purple one on the left one.


Could it be that the coatings are different? That they forgot a certain coating on one lens? Could the weird "ghost" be a result of this?

I have several other binos and none of them reflects differently per barrel.

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[iseegeorgesstar]

Hi lovely bino-people!

I need some help regarding a pair of Victory SF 8x42 I recently purchased.

I was watching some deer in dusk, when suddenly some strange reflection occured, like some kind of ghost of some branches the evening skyglow was coming through. I could only produce it in one of the barrels, no matter what I tried.
View attachment 1565422
Marked in red are the actual branches, blue are "ghost-branches". Sorry for the bad photo, it was getting dark.

I then got inside and checked the objective lenses for a smear or something and discovered something even weirder.

The two barrels reflect the light differently. Very differently. They both have "common" reflections, seemingly of internal elements. The "main" big reflection is green on the right and purple on the left lens though. I turned the bino around to check if it was just a problem of different angles, but no, it remains the same. Whichever lightsource in whichever angle produces a green reflection on the right lens and a purple one on the left one.
View attachment 1565424
View attachment 1565425
Could it be that the coatings are different? That they forgot a certain coating on one lens? Could the weird "ghost" be a result of this?

I have several other binos and none of them reflects differently per barrel.

Thank you in advance for your help.

I've read that supposedly, I think, one of the Fujinon porro lines -- FMTR binoculars ?? -- only have one of the two lenses or prisms coated. Though I don't imagine Zeiss would do this with their flagship binoculars. Best of luck to you.

 

[Binastro]

Differences of coating colour are quite common, but less so in expensive binoculars.

Sometimes if a binocular is repaired different batches of replacement lenses occur.
The repairer tries to match coating colours if possible.

If the view through the two tubes is the same I wouldn't worry.

As to the tree branches, this may be ghost images, but again this sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't.

Some binoculars have bad ghost images but usually in bright light.

I don't know the cause of your images.

I suppose you could ask Zeiss.

Regards,
B.

P.S.
I see white reflections but this could be from a cemented doublet between the elements.
I doubt that the Zeiss has any uncoated surfaces.

Soviet binoculars commonly have different colours in each barrel from using different batches of elements.
Normally, there is no difference in view, but I have an extreme example in a Swarovski 10x40 Porro where the colours seen through the binocular are totally different on each side. This was in a binocular with fungus where the coatings were totally removed on one side.

 

[Conndomat]

Could it be that the coatings are different? That they forgot a certain coating on one lens?

Hello,

It is not uncommon for the coatings to be slightly different in color!

I have a Swarovski SLC 15x56 and a Leica Noctivid 8x42 where it is clear, with my Zeiss SF 8x42 I can also notice slight differences under certain sunlight, the same with a Swarovski EL 8.5x42.

When assembling, the technicians usually look for elements that are as similar as possible and have the same color. Sometimes it just doesn't fit, the whole thing is at best a cosmetic aspect and has no negative impact on the optical performance.

The "ghosting" thing would have to be examined more closely; perhaps an inner panel is not blackened 100% well, but there could also be other reasons that are not a design defect.

Andreas

 

[LaKu]

Thanks for the replies, I'll ask Zeiss about the very different coating colours, I guess.
It seems my bino's got heterochromia... XD
There also seems to be no connection between the coatings and the ghosts:

Upon further inspection of the "ghosts" I found out, that the binos apparently produce a ghost of a nearby lightsource when pointed ~20 degrees away from it. Only the barrel further away from the lightsource does it, tho. So if the light is on my right, the left barrel shows it, if on the left, the right one does.


This is the ghost from this lamp:

Apparently, the image of the lightsource is flipped but shown almost undistorted.

Checking them closely also revealed some other stuff I found "interesting":

I now wonder if the bright reflections I sometimes also see in daylight at the bottom left/right of the field-stop have something to do with the ghosts. These I mean:

They appear pretty close to the point where the ghosts appear.

 

[LaKu]

Also, looking through the tubes from the wrong side, doesn't show a perfect circle but has two "steps" (where baffles overlap?):


Coincidently, (marked in blue) there seems to be a reflective surface right in the position where the bright reflections I mentioned in my previous post occur. (The bino is flipped, the position would be ~8 o'clock (or 4 o'clock respectivly)

 

[LaKu]

Do your SF's show the same characteristics or might my pair be faulty?

Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to bring them back if all of this stuff is normal and to be expected.

Thanks again for all your helpful replies!

 

[Binastro]

I use streetlights at night to examine for ghost images or car headlamps.

Most binoculars show some ghosts, but some are better than others.

It is perfectly reasonable to ask other users of your particular model to check.

The slightly less than perfect circle doesn't seem to be a major issue.

As to ghosts, if looking through windows then they are probably inevitable from the glass of the window.

Regards,
B.

 

[LaKu]

Haha yes, windows are always dangerous for image quality. Even open windows, as inside- and outside-air can mix and create heatwaves.

I checked my other binos in a dark-ish room with a bright light and albeit showing some kinds of flares and reflections, none showed perfect mirrored images of the lightsource as the SF did. Very interesting.

Maybe it's a result of the optical design which seems to be quite different from the rest in Zeiss' SFs. I thought reading about a very thin doublet upfront instead of a heavier triplet as part of the ergo-balance concept.

 

[Scott98]

The coatings are unusual but I don't see anything wrong. From what I've read, coatings much be calibrated to match certain characteristics of the glass in each run. From these slight differences, different reflective colors can appear.

I see this in some of my very best, high-end astronomy lenses. It is not cause for alarm. these two lenses could have just come through different batches in the coating machine. Also from the photo it looks like the reflectivity is the same - the brightness of the reflection is the same, so it's working as designed.

I have the same binos and I would also say they have the cleanest, most clear light path of any binos I have. Looking at bright streetlights at night there is absolutely no ghosting or flares or extra reflected light of any kind - pretty amazing! I love using these for astronomy.

 

[Binastro]

the ghosting can occur from a bright light source way off axis, say 15 degrees to 30 degrees.

One has to try to cover every position of the light source, perhaps up to 45 degrees off axis before one can say there are no ghosts.

In my experience if the light is bright enough, say car headlamps, then ghosts will show up.

Moving cars are useful as they cover quite a lot of positions without having to move the binocular around.

Clearly the binocular in the photos does have ghost images.

Regards,
B.

 

[LaKu]

Thanks again for your answers!

By the way, here are the reflections in daylight:


I wanted to give all of you a little update:

I happened to pass through the city where the shop I got the binos is located and decided to ask them for advice, too.

They were very kind and checked some other Zeiss binos they had in stock for differences in reflections... They found none, all were typical "Zeiss-Pink" (with maybe the sliiiightest difference in hue), decided it was so strangely mismatched that there could in fact be a faulty coating and decided to report the case to Zeiss.

Curious to hear back from them, I'll keep you updated ^^

 

[Gary5Bellies]

Quite bizarre. I've not seen anything like that before. But from your pics there it certainly looks like at least one coating has been missed on that right objective of your bins there. I'm sure Zeiss will get you sorted...

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

What happens with the color reporduction when you look at colored obects with the separe binocular tubes? I ask it since what you see are reflection colors on the objective lenses and that does not necessarily mean that your image shows a similar color shift.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Maljunulo]

I'm not sure that not identical means faulty.

If you see no difference in the image between the two tubes, it probably isn't significant.

I'll be interested in the outcome, if any, of this.

 

[Scott98]

Thanks again for your answers!

By the way, here are the reflections in daylight:


I wanted to give all of you a little update:

I happened to pass through the city where the shop I got the binos is located and decided to ask them for advice, too.

They were very kind and checked some other Zeiss binos they had in stock for differences in reflections... They found none, all were typical "Zeiss-Pink" (with maybe the sliiiightest difference in hue), decided it was so strangely mismatched that there could in fact be a faulty coating and decided to report the case to Zeiss.

Curious to hear back from them, I'll keep you updated ^^

It is strange! I wonder if the original lens was replaced at some point by Zeiss service? I guess I would want the pink ones too, if all the others are like that. Probably not good for resale value. The coatings do look dark & effective though.

 

[agus_m]

I also find it bizarre that the coatings are different in each tube. Why would they change the coatings formula midway when making the batch of binos? Wouldn't Zeiss have the lenses carefully catalogued by batch, element, and coating formula to not mix up different coatings for a individual bino? Even my ~100 euro Aculon has the same coatings in each barrel. Having different arrangements of dielectric coatings would necessarily change the transmittance profile between the different tubes, maybe not to be detectable by some people, but why not be consistent.

 

[Patudo]

this should reassure the OP:

Hi,

In the coating process chemical elements are vaporised onto the lenses at a certain pressure and temperature.

Although the amounts of chemicals are measured exactly the slightest difference in pressure or temperature at the moment of vaporisation will result in a slightly different colour coating.

When assembling or repairing binoculars we try to use lenses from the same coating batch or pick colours that match - but sometimes a rogue slips through.

It will not affect the optical performance in any way.

from Various coating in the same binoculars

 

[LaKu]

What happens with the color reporduction when you look at colored obects with the separe binocular tubes? I ask it since what you see are reflection colors on the objective lenses and that does not necessarily mean that your image shows a similar color shift.
Gijs van Ginkel

I don't see any difference in color reproduction.

If Zeiss decides that this is all within specs and perfectly normal, I wouldn't really be bothered too much about it, also thanks to the reassuring comments of some other folks here. I guess I'd just accept having a very quirky bino XD
If they decide to send me a new pair because they think something went wrong, I'd also be happy with that.

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to like my "SF with heterochromia" ^^

 

[Conndomat]

this should reassure the OP:
from Various coating in the same binoculars

That's exactly how it is!

When I got my Swarovski SLC 15x56 I also had some doubts!

One tube has a deep red color, like a dark red wine, the other was more like a light rose wine. At that time I started a thread in the German "Jülich Forum", everyone who knew anything about binoculars agreed that it had no effect!

https://www.osj-forum.de/file.php?9,file=4371,filename=17.12.2020_080.JPG

I also sent the pictures to Swarovski, it was the same response as Zeiss, zero impact, just cosmetic!

Swarovski even offered to send me the glass back in order to install a more suitable lens!

But I didn't do that because I didn't see any differences in the optical performance anyway and wanted to avoid sending things back and forth.

Under certain lighting conditions and certain angles, there are hardly two exact lenses.

If you want to test the color balance etc. in the individual tubes, it should be done with one and the same eye, as our eyes also have different perceptions of brightness and color.

Andreas