yes, i do agree with your last statement, as long as it is carried out correctly then the benefits outweigh the stress caused at the time. I dont consider nest checking to be more ethical, just that this is the only time i have contact with ringers.Jos Stratford said:Tells me nothing about what they do in winter, where they go, etc. If the problems with survival are not on the breeding grounds, then this is of limited vallue alone. Take Roller, not a bird that visits my feeders I have to add 3, but the population has slumped to critical levels - pure monitoring of nests would help not a cent ...every nest I have ever known out here has been successful. The problem is elsewhere.
PS as the whole point of this thread is along the lines 'Is ringing ethical?', do I assume you consider it more ethical to check nestboxes and nests? Limited amounts of stress will occur during both ringing and checks of nests, no?
Should just add that I think Valley Boy and I will more or less agree that monitoring of birds, be it raptors at the nest or ringing of birds, if done with due respect to the birds involved, is probably a good thing overall. Would that be about right?
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Is ringing ethical? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bernard the cat
- Start date
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
Ilya Maclean said:I don't know one, but I know of one: George W. Bush
you can't let that slide without a nod to Comrade Hu Jintao and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh....
if we're gonna start pointing fingers, let's at least be fair!
Ilya Maclean
charlatan
Poecile said:
Fair point (literally). However between 1751 and 1996 (couldn't find up-to-date info), the US emmited - 1447 million tonnes of carbon, China 917 million and India 272 million. Per capita, that’s 5.37 (US), 0.76 (China) and 0.26 (India) thousand tonnes. Granted, China's and India's emmisions are increasing more rapidly, but they are also developing countries and at least both have signed the Kyoto Protocol. No two ways about it, the US really are the badest boys:-(
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
Ilya Maclean said:
You wont be saying that in 10 years. China is building a coal-fired power station the size of drax every 10 days. India isn't far behind. We and the USA set this rolling, yes, but unless China and India change their behaviour then we're all whsitling in the wind, no matter what the USA does in the future.
Sue Wright
Well-known member
Poecile said:
I watched Newsnight on Monday night and they say China and India will change their behaviour when they see everyone else doing the same. Meanwhile they go on building those darn power stations by the hundreds I suppose! Why does everyone have to wait for others to go first?? :brains:
Sue
Can we get this back on topic please.
Thanks.
Thanks.
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
Think it's run its course.
Surprised Mark Grantham didn't join in. He must be on Scilly)
Surprised Mark Grantham didn't join in. He must be on Scilly
)Mark Grantham
Well-known member
The BTO Ringing Scheme operates under general licences from the Government conservation agencies in each UK country, with policy being guided by a Committee and four expert panels. Every year, some 800,000 birds are ringed by over 2,000 licensed ringers, most of who are volunteers. The lightweight rings carry a unique number and return address and are designed to comfortably fit the bird’s leg so that they do not cause any problems (there are currently 22 different types of ring).
The main focus of the modern ringing scheme is the monitoring of populations (see http://www.bto.org/birdtrends). Ringing data allow us to calculate indices of annual productivity and also annual survival rates for many species. With our world changing so rapidly, it is important to continually monitor how birds react to these changes, for the better or worse.
The real conservation use of ringing comes when we need to investigate why a population is declining. IPM (Integrated Population Monitoring) models (http://www.bto.org/survey/ipm.htm) using ringing and other survey data can help us to identify changes at which stage of a bird’s life are most likely to be causing a population decline. By identifying this crucial life stage, valuable, and often limited, conservation funds can be used in a more directed fashion.
For example, recent analyses have shown differing causes for the decline of some species: Song Thrush (decrease in survival of first-winter birds); Linnet (increase in nest failure and decrease in productivity); Reed Bunting (decrease in over-winter survival).
The BTO’s Migration Atlas is also testimony to the efforts of BTO ringers over the 95+ years of the scheme, summarising our current knowledge of bird movements, but also highlighting areas where there is still much to learn. For example, we still don’t fully understand the movements of Red-listed species such as Turtle Dove (79% long-term population decline), Yellow Wagtail (65% population decline) and Spotted Flycatcher (86% population decline). Currently analyses of ringing data are also providing crucial information for managing the potential spread of avian influenza (bird flu).
It is important to remember that all ringing studies look at healthy wild birds, so it is essential that birds are not affected unduly by the fitting and wearing of a ring. If birds were affected, ringing would not tell us how healthy wild birds behave. All ringers are thus thoroughly trained and licensed and the welfare of the bird is always paramount. Many studies have shown that, after ringing, migrants continue their journeys and that birds ringed during the breeding season quickly return to incubating eggs, or feeding chicks.
For more details about the scheme, visit the BTO website at www.bto.org/ringing or download the attached leaflet.
Mark Grantham
BTO Ringing Unit
(Fresh back from ringing in Colombia)
The main focus of the modern ringing scheme is the monitoring of populations (see http://www.bto.org/birdtrends). Ringing data allow us to calculate indices of annual productivity and also annual survival rates for many species. With our world changing so rapidly, it is important to continually monitor how birds react to these changes, for the better or worse.
The real conservation use of ringing comes when we need to investigate why a population is declining. IPM (Integrated Population Monitoring) models (http://www.bto.org/survey/ipm.htm) using ringing and other survey data can help us to identify changes at which stage of a bird’s life are most likely to be causing a population decline. By identifying this crucial life stage, valuable, and often limited, conservation funds can be used in a more directed fashion.
For example, recent analyses have shown differing causes for the decline of some species: Song Thrush (decrease in survival of first-winter birds); Linnet (increase in nest failure and decrease in productivity); Reed Bunting (decrease in over-winter survival).
The BTO’s Migration Atlas is also testimony to the efforts of BTO ringers over the 95+ years of the scheme, summarising our current knowledge of bird movements, but also highlighting areas where there is still much to learn. For example, we still don’t fully understand the movements of Red-listed species such as Turtle Dove (79% long-term population decline), Yellow Wagtail (65% population decline) and Spotted Flycatcher (86% population decline). Currently analyses of ringing data are also providing crucial information for managing the potential spread of avian influenza (bird flu).
It is important to remember that all ringing studies look at healthy wild birds, so it is essential that birds are not affected unduly by the fitting and wearing of a ring. If birds were affected, ringing would not tell us how healthy wild birds behave. All ringers are thus thoroughly trained and licensed and the welfare of the bird is always paramount. Many studies have shown that, after ringing, migrants continue their journeys and that birds ringed during the breeding season quickly return to incubating eggs, or feeding chicks.
For more details about the scheme, visit the BTO website at www.bto.org/ringing or download the attached leaflet.
Mark Grantham
BTO Ringing Unit
(Fresh back from ringing in Colombia)
Allen S. Moore
Well-known member
Curiosity
How has ringing shown these causes for the decline of these species?
Mark Grantham said:
How has ringing shown these causes for the decline of these species?
Mark Grantham
Well-known member
Hi Allen
The process of building an IPM model takes in data from a whole variety of different BTO schemes, of which ringing is just one. The contribution ringing makes will be, for example, in identifying changes in survival (or mortality) rates for a species at different times of year (from reports of dead birds and also recaptures of live birds). The model will then assess whether any changes in survival (or productivity or breeding success etc...) are likely to be driving the population change. This will then help to identify the crucial period for further study.
Mark Grantham
BTO Ringing Unit
The process of building an IPM model takes in data from a whole variety of different BTO schemes, of which ringing is just one. The contribution ringing makes will be, for example, in identifying changes in survival (or mortality) rates for a species at different times of year (from reports of dead birds and also recaptures of live birds). The model will then assess whether any changes in survival (or productivity or breeding success etc...) are likely to be driving the population change. This will then help to identify the crucial period for further study.
Mark Grantham
BTO Ringing Unit
Jane Turner
Well-known member
I would have thought that the aforementioned age-related totals would be an excellent indicator of survivial rates at different time periods and in different areas.
