Is the future of birding electric? (1 Viewer)

[ClarkWGriswold]

Guessing electric may be an interim measure before hydrogen ... (aluminium somewhere in there too?)

Presumably range will increase and charging times decrease too ...

Hyundai already have a Hydrogen fuelled vehicle on sale Dan. The 2 main issues at the moment are cost, and hardly any places to get Hydrogen.

Rich

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

I live in a courtyard environment where my house is forty yards past council houses from the nearest place i can park my car (which due to timing of my arrival after work often translates to 80 yards) so home charging is right out and therefore so is an EV. I'm pleased to hear ranges are getting close to the 300 miles I used to think was OK before I discovered diesel, though.

Contrastingly, my Skoda Octavia 1.9 Tdi can be filled in a couple of minutes and will then go from Farnborough to Aberdeen on one tank, avoiding the need to pay motorway prices on any UK journey.

Of course making journeys/days longer is a safety issue, especially if a day out is quite long already (e.g. Taiga Flycatcher and Rufous Bushchat in a day starting from Farnborough.) So multiples of 40 minute charges are very bad.

Obviously some way to go yet for the next generation to catch up with the present one.

John

Did approx 540 miles in my Octavia on a single (10 gallon) tank of fuel John. Then took less than 5 mins to refuel.

Rich

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

Trying not to sugar coat it, I love the Kona (more than I thought I could love a Korean fake (2wd) SUV!) but its not for everyone.

My brothers father in law has a Kona kb. He loves it living in Aus he has a solar panel set up to provide electricity.

Rich

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

Recent article in Autocar comparing a Polestar 2 to an XC40. Depending on where your electricity is generated, it could take more than 40,000 miles for it to be considered greener. Figures supplied by Polestar.

Rich

 

[Andy Adcock]

I agree with all these points. Living on a busy road, the idea of no more engine noise is very appealing, but would need to be accompanied with better tyre tread design and quieter road surfaces for maximum benefit.

Range could easily be dealt with in the longer term by having standard battery dimensions and fittings. You would just rent batteries, pull into a service station and a robot arm (or surly teenager) would automatically swap out with a fully charged battery. It's a question of infrastructure and common standards rather than technology.

Places like Africa and inland Australia are probably never going to be suitable for EVs unless there's a currently unforeseeable advance in technology and infrastructure.

I actually came the closest I've ever been, to being run over, by an electric vehicle. You don't realise how much you use your ears when crossing a road and as I stepped off the pavement on a side street, a vehicle turned left off the main road and I just didn't hear this thing but fortunately, he saw me and stopped in time or I would have been hurt.

 

[Farnboro John]

Did approx 540 miles in my Octavia on a single (10 gallon) tank of fuel John. Then took less than 5 mins to refuel.

Rich

Yep. Brilliant car.

 

[jurek]

So, what about cost barriers (purchase / leasing / maintenance) and practicality (are you stuck by the motorway with a flat battery when you should be watching that mega)? I'll come to those in turn below (after I've cooked myself some food - it's 9pm GMT and I haven't eaten yet!)

You missed an elephant in the room. All the physical infrastructure, subsidies and taxes required to make electric cars viable are extremely fragile and uncertain. A government might fail to provide it dependably or U-turn on tax systems anytime, leaving people burdened with big bills and the country transport system in collapse. You can think of political accountability and organization as another technology which has not arrived yet.

Opisska rightly pointed that the reason why gasoline combustion engine conquered the world is that it is independent of infrastructure - a car can carry its own petrol, as cars still do in remote places and during crisis.

The best response would be to post your local representatives to oppose any legislation which forces electric cars on those who don't want them. And suggest, at least as a what-if exercise: any government official voting to force people to use electric cars should first pledge, in a legally binding way, to immediately use only electric cars. Including medical ambulances and fire trucks. Including on holiday and professionally. Unlikely? Aha.

 

[Steve Babbs]

Personally after 300 miles I need refuelling with caffeine anyway, although my stops do tend to be less that 40 minutes. I've just bought a new (ish) Octavia - although I've gone for petrol - and I am hoping it's the last fossil fuel car I buy.

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

Fully Charged is a decent YouTube channel for electric vehicles. Presented by Robert Llewelyn. (Kryten)

Really liked my Octavia Steve. Great space for the family, decent amount of poke, reliable and fuel efficient.

Rich

 

[edenwatcher]

Supercapacitors are not the answer (at least not on their own) as whilst they are good for power they cannot store much energy. They have to be (and are) used in conjunction with a battery. Hydrogen is not the answer for cars either - much better option for buses, ferries etc. (possibly in combination with sodium-ion batteries).
For electrification to work, battery recycling has to become the norm and is something we are well behind the curve on.

Rob (battery researcher)

 

[opisska]

I must say the most fascinating knowledge gained in this thread for me is how popular Octavias are in the UK I mean it's not a bad thing at all - considering that I have one myself, but for me it's "local brand" (even though it's just superficial as it's built on the universal VW platforms).

 

[Farnboro John]

I must say the most fascinating knowledge gained in this thread for me is how popular Octavias are in the UK I mean it's not a bad thing at all - considering that I have one myself, but for me it's "local brand" (even though it's just superficial as it's built on the universal VW platforms).

Looking at it the other way, its VW at a lower price and without some of the irritating "enhancements" - my Octavia still has a proper handbrake. My last Passat had the electronic button and as far as I'm concerned it was awful. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, a lesson from which many engineers/designers could benefit.

John

 

[Steve Babbs]

We're going off topic but I chose an Octavia after a lot of research. But to sum it up: it has slightly larger boot space, despite being a hatchback, than my Mazda 6 estate without being truly huge - relevant for someone like me who is confident at driving but totally crap at parking even with parking sensors - good economy, excellent performance at a reasonable price. The space is relevant as at the moment the most likely holiday option does seem to be nipping across the channel for a family camping holiday as it seems likely trips to more 'exotic' places are going to have to wait at least another year. They are very popular in the UK and have lost their 'budget' brand image they had - mine has leather seats, 10 inch infotainment system dual-climate control and lots of things I've yet to work out, and yes an old-fashioned hand brake.

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

Octavia phev looks an interesting option. My office (if I can remember the way!) is just over 30 miles away. If I can charge up there it certainly would be economically viable.

 

[DMW]

I actually came the closest I've ever been, to being run over, by an electric vehicle. You don't realise how much you use your ears when crossing a road and as I stepped off the pavement on a side street, a vehicle turned left off the main road and I just didn't hear this thing but fortunately, he saw me and stopped in time or I would have been hurt.

It's a valid point, but also applies to bikes. As EVs become more popular, I suppose we will see some form of Darwinian evolution among pedestrians 😁

 

[DMW]

Supercapacitors are not the answer (at least not on their own) as whilst they are good for power they cannot store much energy. They have to be (and are) used in conjunction with a battery. Hydrogen is not the answer for cars either - much better option for buses, ferries etc. (possibly in combination with sodium-ion batteries).
For electrification to work, battery recycling has to become the norm and is something we are well behind the curve on.

Rob (battery researcher)

What is the argument against hydrogen for cars?

 

[pppppvvvv]

Personally after 300 miles I need refuelling with caffeine anyway, although my stops do tend to be less that 40 minutes. I've just bought a new (ish) Octavia - although I've gone for petrol - and I am hoping it's the last fossil fuel car I buy.

I mentioned my campervan. I think I (and other campervan owners) have the biggest change ahead.
It might not be feasible for electric campervans, although there are a couple of models available.

I currently get 600+ miles to a tank of diesel, at 40 miles per gallon, but the freedom of parking/sleeping overnight anywhere would be further reduced if having to sleep at a charge point.

 

[ClarkWGriswold]

I mentioned my campervan. I think I (and other campervan owners) have the biggest change ahead.
It might not be feasible for electric campervans, although there are a couple of models available.

I currently get 600+ miles to a tank of diesel, at 40 miles per gallon, but the freedom of parking/sleeping overnight anywhere would be further reduced if having to sleep at a charge point.

There’s a charging point at Kilchoan Peter. Can think of worse places to spend the night.

 

[YuShan]

With the current energy mix, EV cars cause about half the amount of CO2 emissions over their lifetime (including production) compared to ICE. So that's a 50% reduction. However, I worry that people are going to drive more because once they have invested in an expensive EV the cost of driving it is much less. I would definitely drive more if I had spent so much money on a car that enables cheap driving.

I really like EVs, but I will probably keep my (14 year old, little used) car alive for another 10 years because it makes more environmental and economic sense for me. 10 years from now, I think private ownership of cars will be less because for people who only use cars occasionally (like myself) it will make more economic sense to just use the cheap driverless electric taxis that I expect will be abundant by then.

 

[pppppvvvv]

There’s a charging point at Kilchoan Peter. Can think of worse places to spend the night.

I think that's my problem.. I spend many nights at far worse places!