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ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia

Ivory-Billed Woodpecker continued (1 Viewer)

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Farnboro John

Well-known member
1 TS:
I am not here to win or convert people to my side but rather to test various XXXXXXX and XXXXX. Also related 1) XXXXXXXXX 2) XXXXXXXX 3) XXXXXXX 4)XXXXXXXX.

PCB:
Not able to go into detail here but we know XXXXX the XXXXXX XXXX are. The pertinent divisions of XXXXX have been seriously hurt to eliminated. Employees for various divisions went from XXXXX to 0 people. THe IB was not worked on. Any presumption that any delisting is based mainly on recent field science is a fallacy. Employee numbers nationally down to only ~ 3,700 from XXXXX. XXXXX and XXXXX are gone.

Hmmmm....

John
 

Larry Sweetland

Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
1 TS:
I am not here to win or convert people to my side but rather to test various XXXXXXX and XXXXX. Also related 1) XXXXXXXXX 2) XXXXXXXX 3) XXXXXXX 4)XXXXXXXX.

PCB:
Not able to go into detail here but we know XXXXX the XXXXXX XXXX are. The pertinent divisions of XXXXX have been seriously hurt to eliminated. Employees for various divisions went from XXXXX to 0 people. THe IB was not worked on. Any presumption that any delisting is based mainly on recent field science is a fallacy. Employee numbers nationally down to only ~ 3,700 from XXXXX. XXXXX and XXXXX are gone.

Hmmmm....

John
That's rich coming from you, John. We all know that you are actually Jos Stratford ;)
 

ZanderII

Well-known member
1 TS:
I am not here to win or convert people to my side but rather to test various XXXXXXX and XXXXX. Also related 1) XXXXXXXXX 2) XXXXXXXX 3) XXXXXXX 4)XXXXXXXX.

PCB:
Not able to go into detail here but we know XXXXX the XXXXXX XXXX are. The pertinent divisions of XXXXX have been seriously hurt to eliminated. Employees for various divisions went from XXXXX to 0 people. THe IB was not worked on. Any presumption that any delisting is based mainly on recent field science is a fallacy. Employee numbers nationally down to only ~ 3,700 from XXXXX. XXXXX and XXXXX are gone.

Hmmmm....

John
I heard that USFWS are working on sasquatch instead as it is more likely to be recoverable https://sasquatchchronicles.com/for...raining-center-discussion-on-sasquatch-video/ my mate who is on QAnon says it is dead legit. Deep state conspiracy to delist IBWO by XXXXXX.
 

motiheal

Well-known member
If IBWO were extant I would anticipate sightings of birds out of habitat. Of course documenting them would be easy in that case.
I always contact these people and say the standard thing-- look again same time of day, have a cam ready. Have never had a follow-up report, which of course could mean different things.
 

Mono

Hi!
Staff member
Supporter
Europe
There are a group of birders who believe that Ivory billed Woodpeckers are extant. Their opinion is not going to be changed.

They are not advocating invading the Capitol or burning down 5G towers they just want to do some bird surveys.

Can't we just accept it and move on? We would all love it if they actually found one!
 

Sangahyando

Well-known member
There are a group of birders who believe that Ivory billed Woodpeckers are extant. Their opinion is not going to be changed.

They are not advocating invading the Capitol or burning down 5G towers they just want to do some bird surveys.

Can't we just accept it and move on? We would all love it if they actually found one!
I just can't help but think how much they could've achieved with the time and effort they sunk into this IBWO pipe dream. They could've gone to some other place and discovered a species or two entirely new to science, maybe it'd even be a bird or mammal.
And my point still stands (unanswered as far as I can see), that if the former IBWO habitat is in danger, they should focus on other species living there whose existence is easier to prove.
 

ZanderII

Well-known member
I just can't help but think how much they could've achieved with the time and effort they sunk into this IBWO pipe dream. They could've gone to some other place and discovered a species or two entirely new to science, maybe it'd even be a bird or mammal.
And my point still stands (unanswered as far as I can see), that if the former IBWO habitat is in danger, they should focus on other species living there whose existence is easier to prove.
USFWS have got that now. They really need to invest in saving what remains of the insular avifauna of Hawaii.
 

pileated canada bull

Well-known member
Canada
And my point still stands (unanswered as far as I can see), that if the former IBWO habitat is in danger, they should focus on other species living there whose existence is easier to prove.

Sang, its been answered in various parts of the thread a few times.

Your premise needs to be adjusted. There are 7.5 million acres of habitat, this mentioned many times . Adding acres is not the problem especially with such a low population NOT AT CARRYING CAPACITY on a simple per acre analysis. 7.5 KK acres at a modern day est (reduced quality today) of 100 sq miles per pair equals 64,000 acres/pair. Equals 117 pairs SE USA Carrying capacity.

The need is ivory-billed specific management of the 7.5 KK acres. There have been multiple mistakes post rediscovery (2004-2010) by those at the top, influenced by skeptics, this led to a poor or inaccurate survey results. Survey results lacked both accuracy and precision. This contributed to the partial failure of the survey phase of the effort. Contributing to the partial failure was the high probability that there were few birds to be found in 2005 to 2010.

The supporting rationales for all this is there, but institutional memory of the moving parts is needed to formulate them.


1279.JPG

picture sent to me showing unusual, from my patch, scaling near IB sightings
 
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pileated canada bull

Well-known member
Canada
Trying to spot the unusual features, all I can see is dead trees with the bark off, seen many in Britain where AFAIK there are no Ivory-billed Woodpeckers and our largest is smaller than a Pileated.

John
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ XXXXXXOXXXIXXXDXXXIXX YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I will go on for others only since its related to evidence review and this poster is not into evidence .

The ivory-billed has a unique NA USA physiology and niche. The post senescent age of dead trees is pivotal for accurate review of some evidence . They are the only Picidae that can scale still highly adherent bark. If you find concentrated scaling on recently dead trees and you know your entomology and Picidae and zoological community you can more accurateley hypothesize on what caused the scaling.
 
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pileated canada bull

Well-known member
Canada
What do you think Ivorybill specific management would look like?
Like to put some granularity on pair carrying capacity related to survival, some areas of such superior quality are likely reproducing above replacement rate. So there is a sink and source dynamic. Habitat carrying capacity ranking will likely produce a list or areas fitting into cohorts of quaulity range. This related to the finite kinds of land use that can occur.

Management should be done initially iN AREAS CONTIGuOUS to high ranking areas. You are therefore not mucking around in best areas (do no harm doctrine) and designing on a landscape scale for "catching" the excess animals as they disperse from the few natal areas.

This is related to why we do not find animals everywhere presently, and why there is a heterogenous pattern of sightings. There are only a few good areas surrounded by sinks.
 
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Welsh Peregrine

Well-known member
And we have the problem that we still do not know what a source area looks like; there are arguments that, based in part on habitat preferences of Imperial and Cuban IB, pine forests were the preferred habitat and swamp forests are suboptimal habitats which allowed persistence rather than expansion.
 

pileated canada bull

Well-known member
Canada
And we have the problem that we still do not know what a source area looks like; there are arguments that, based in part on habitat preferences of Imperial and Cuban IB, pine forests were the preferred habitat and swamp forests are suboptimal habitats which allowed persistence rather than expansion.
Yes, yes. Although my perception is a bit different. Many birds only need physical structure to be succesful (adequate food, forest, roosts, etc.) The idea that 'bills are pine or riparian forest obligates seems way off. The SE coastal plain landscape was and is now in only several million acres, a panorama of interdigitalized fingers of lowland forest into expansive pine flats. The 'bill, likely a catastrophic dependent species reaching full numbers only with this input, used both types of habitat to fulfill circannual and ciradian cycles.

I have had 'bill proponts slink away when I say your carrying capacity numbers are much too promiscuous because this that.
 

ZanderII

Well-known member
Like to put some granularity on pair carrying capacity related to survival, some areas of such superior quality are likely reproducing above replacement rate. So there is a sink and source dynamic. Habitat carrying capacity ranking will likely produce a list or areas fitting into cohorts of quaulity range. This related to the finite kinds of land use that can occur.

Management should be done initially iN AREAS CONTIGuOUS to high ranking areas. You are therefore not mucking around in best areas (do no harm doctrine) and designing on a landscape scale for "catching" the excess animals as they disperse from the few natal areas.

This is related to why we do not find animals everywhere presently, and why there is a heterogenous pattern of sightings. There are only a few good areas surrounded by sinks.

Or not as the case may be.
 
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ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Columbia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Colombia
ZEISS. Discover the fascinating world of birds, and win a birding trip to Colombia

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