Ivory-Billed Woodpecker continued (3 Viewers)

[motiheal]

I live in the (former?) range of that bird.
Grew up along the Mississippi, where the ancient stands of bald cypress, and tupelo nurtured generations of the Ivory bill.

The river channelized, the habitat erased, the entire ecosystem gone for the most part.
The hope exist, but realistically, I doubt the bird does

Are you aware of the newer research that shows the IBWO can exist in other types of habitat that still include beetle larvae and trees? There are millions of acres like this in the US SE.

 

[dantheman]

This is done with motions of cars in racing simulator games, and these are easy to tell from the real ones. And natural settings are harder to replicate. So, no.

The technology is advancing very rapidly (eg as in deepfake videos as discussed elsewhere with AI). Pretty scary.

With natural settings and replicating poor or reasonable footage it won't be long, if not already, that it will be almost impossible to tell the difference. That isn't to say that you'd assume someone would try for neferious purposes - hopefully not.

 

[RafaelMatias]

The technology is advancing very rapidly (eg as in deepfake videos as discussed elsewhere with AI). Pretty scary.

With natural settings and replicating poor or reasonable footage it won't be long, if not already, that it will be almost impossible to tell the difference. That isn't to say that you'd assume someone would try for neferious purposes - hopefully not.

Well, in that case the independent reviewing process of such "evidence" would need to become tougher and (even) more demanding. And hopefully, people putting FW any obtained evidence would want it to be properly independently reviewed, so that no doubts would remain.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

If you think the IBWO exists, get a photo or a film. Accept from the start that people will ask for it.

Deb: but everyone knows that ornithological circles did keep secrecy in a coordinated manner in the 2000s, when said sightings of IBWO happened. So a conspiracy is possible.

The ’conspiracy’ I was referring to was an image that disappeared from the thread (ie I was jokingly suggesting it wasn’t there in the first place 😉) However, I am not sure what those searching for the IBWO (apparently live and well in Arkansas somewhere perhaps) - what they would gain from keeping it a secret. Is that why there is no public evidence - because it’s a ‘secret’?

Btw - everyone knows that wasnt really the Queen on Channel 4 on Christmas day, so technology still has to go a bit further before it can convince the world it is looking at a video of an IBWO although it would probably be easier to fake some double knocks deep in some Louisiana swamp than 10 minutes of HRH addressing the nation from a drawing room Windsor Castle.

 

[YuShan]

This is done with motions of cars in racing simulator games, and these are easy to tell from the real ones. And natural settings are harder to replicate. So, no.

Because these racing simulations have to be calculated in realtime on a moderate computer and everything including the surroundings are artificially generated. But that is not the approach I would follow to generate a realistic looking IBWO video. I would take existing footage of a Pileated Woodpecker and modify just the woodpecker, its flight pattern, movements and calls. Everything else would be real. And this doesn't have to happen in realtime. You can keep tuning it based on the best footage we have (from the 1930's) and everything else that is known about the IBWO until it looks totally convincing.

Btw: I find it funny when the same people who are convinced of IBWO survival based on a few seconds footage of out of focus blobs think that they are going to be able to tell a well engineered deep-fake from real. This seems like a real contradiction to me. No offence intended

 

[YuShan]

Btw: just an example what artificial intelligence can already do.
NONE of the people below actually exist. They are generated by an algorithm.

 

[jurek]

However, I am not sure what those searching for the IBWO (apparently live and well in Arkansas somewhere perhaps) - what they would gain from keeping it a secret. Is that why there is no public evidence - because it’s a ‘secret’?

I was referring to the fact that when the IBWO was seen in the 2000s, secrecy was successfully kept for about a year, when about seven people saw it, a film was taken, a bird conservation society was contacted and purchased land. The secrecy was lifted only when a major politician was about to announce development of the area (please, I am writing from memory, I can be wrong in details). There were similar cases in Britain when secrecy of rare breeding birds was kept for years. So basically yes, secrecy might be maintained by one disciplined group of people.

But with independent searches it would be uncovered, as you said, so IBWO for now does not exist.

Refering to the computer technology, I think still more could be done by correcting poor quality videos with black and white colors 'leaking' on the surrounding area, to prove that the supposed IBWOs were Pileateds or were not.

 

[Bird_Bill]

Are you aware of the newer research that shows the IBWO can exist in other types of habitat that still include beetle larvae and trees? There are millions of acres like this in the US SE.

Sure, I am aware of that.
The stand of short leaf pine on my place is fully capable of sustaining red-cockaded woodpeckers (Dryobates borealis).
Another North American Picidae in trouble.

Surely, you've come across them if you venture beyond Manitee State park,
and its 800 acres full of bald cypress and tupelo.

We all know the story about the formerly extinct black-footed ferret (Mustela nigripes).
A population re-discovered in 1981
On private ground, not public ground.

The black-footed ferret and red-cockaded reintroduction is going well, albeit slowly
A couple things they have in common.
Both programs rely on private partnering with caring and willing landowners.
Both programs avoid facebook like the plague

 

[Andy Adcock]

I was referring to the fact that when the IBWO was seen in the 2000s, secrecy was successfully kept for about a year, when about seven people saw it, a film was taken, a bird conservation society was contacted and purchased land. The secrecy was lifted only when a major politician was about to announce development of the area (please, I am writing from memory, I can be wrong in details). There were similar cases in Britain when secrecy of rare breeding birds was kept for years. So basically yes, secrecy might be maintained by one disciplined group of people.

But with independent searches it would be uncovered, as you said, so IBWO for now does not exist.

Refering to the computer technology, I think still more could be done by correcting poor quality videos with black and white colors 'leaking' on the surrounding area, to prove that the supposed IBWOs were Pileateds or were not.

The site of rare, breeding birds nests in the UK, are always witheld due in no small part, to the fact that we have egg collectors in this country.

I don't think the two examples are comparable.

 

[motiheal]

Because these racing simulations have to be calculated in realtime on a moderate computer and everything including the surroundings are artificially generated. But that is not the approach I would follow to generate a realistic looking IBWO video. I would take existing footage of a Pileated Woodpecker and modify just the woodpecker, its flight pattern, movements and calls. Everything else would be real. And this doesn't have to happen in realtime. You can keep tuning it based on the best footage we have (from the 1930's) and everything else that is known about the IBWO until it looks totally convincing.

Btw: I find it funny when the same people who are convinced of IBWO survival based on a few seconds footage of out of focus blobs think that they are going to be able to tell a well engineered deep-fake from real. This seems like a real contradiction to me. No offence intended

The Pileated is too different.

 

[motiheal]

The ’conspiracy’ I was referring to was an image that disappeared from the thread (ie I was jokingly suggesting it wasn’t there in the first place 😉) However, I am not sure what those searching for the IBWO (apparently live and well in Arkansas somewhere perhaps) - what they would gain from keeping it a secret. Is that why there is no public evidence - because it’s a ‘secret’?

Btw - everyone knows that wasnt really the Queen on Channel 4 on Christmas day, so technology still has to go a bit further before it can convince the world it is looking at a video of an IBWO although it would probably be easier to fake some double knocks deep in some Louisiana swamp than 10 minutes of HRH addressing the nation from a drawing room Windsor Castle.

Most if not all of the info is accessible to the public, and the difference between a studied opinion of the topic, or an amateur opinion, shows readily.

A notable exception to accessible information, at the moment, is Project Principalis--

Home

Ivory-billed Woodpecker searches since 2009.

projectcoyoteibwo.com

Occam's Razor (the simplest explanation) works for the IBWO-- the bird is just extremely hard to find.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Then

Occam's Razor (the simplest explanation) works for the IBWO-- the bird is just extremely hard to find.

So you're basically saying that birders in the US can't bird for toffee, and there's been a whopping great Campephilus in their back yard avoiding their lists by climbing round the backs of trees for several decades 😁.

quite an insult to the birding community really.

Feel free to say that UK birders are rubbish too, if we end up proving we've still got Great Auks ducking behind boulders on our shoreline somewhere.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Most if not all of the info is accessible to the public, and the difference between a studied opinion of the topic, or an amateur opinion, shows readily.

So, the IBOW is extant but it’s because I am an ‘amateur’ the evidence fails to impress me? 🙄

So just to clarify - (re. Larry’s comments too above), not only are US birders are rubbish but UK birders need some kind of professional forensic qualification to interpret the ‘evidence’?

 

[Nutcracker]

Feel free to say that UK birders are rubbish too, if we end up proving we've still got Great Auks ducking behind boulders on our shoreline somewhere.

I remember reading several years ago (IIRC in British Birds 'News & Comment' section), there was an American university which was sending an expedition to a 'remote group of islands' where they thought Great Auks might have survived undetected . . . Orkney 🤪🤪🤪

 

[ZanderII]

2. The IBWO is a rare, low-density semi-nomadic species with a flee distance of about 100 meters that lives in heavily wooded areas, has great vision, and uses trees to hide behind. Enough said with difficulty to photograph.

ii. Do not use double knock sounds. There is evidence these are territorial and will cause interest but not close approach.

iii. Do not search in "likely habitat." There is evidence that IBWOs are more generalized feeders, and more adaptable to habitat including trees, than generally believed. And, they are very rare. So, follow up probable sightings and concentrate on these spots.

iv. There is evidence that "single knocks" for IBWOs are positional for family units. Use these sporadically, and listen for responses or watch for sightings.

None of this is supported by evidence and is supposition to explain the absence of evidence.

 

[motiheal]

None of this is supported by evidence and is supposition to explain the absence of evidence.

How do you know it's not supported by evidence? All of it is.

 

[motiheal]

So, the IBOW is extant but it’s because I am an ‘amateur’ the evidence fails to impress me? 🙄

So just to clarify - (re. Larry’s comments too above), not only are US birders are rubbish but UK birders need some kind of professional forensic qualification to interpret the ‘evidence’?

What is the extent of your studies for the IBWO?

 

[motiheal]

So you're basically saying that birders in the US can't bird for toffee, and there's been a whopping great Campephilus in their back yard avoiding their lists by climbing round the backs of trees for several decades 😁.

quite an insult to the birding community really.

Feel free to say that UK birders are rubbish too, if we end up proving we've still got Great Auks ducking behind boulders on our shoreline somewhere.

I basically said exactly what I said.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

What is the extent of your studies for the IBWO?

Ivory-billed Woodpecker: Debunking the Critics

Over the years, there have been many posts on birdforum about the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Despite a lack of quality in these discussions, I have posted occasional updates about my work on this topic for any bird watchers who might be interested in this magnificent bird and its conservation. I...

www.birdforum.net

conservation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker

The Ivory-billed Woodpecker Deserves Better I concluded eight years of field work and research on the Ivory-billed Woodpecker in 2013. A series of lectures based on this work is posted at the above URL on the following issues: * The Ivory-billed Woodpecker persists. I had encounters in...

www.birdforum.net

(as) Ivory-billed Woodpecker Found???

(AS) Ivory-billed Woodpecker Found??? Amazonas Brazil-Fransisca Mendes-Saturday 11/5/2016 I was driving the car when I suddenly saw something red that looked like the crest of a woodpecker. It was in a tree about 300 feet from where I was, and as I kept driving more came into view. I saw the...

www.birdforum.net

new paper on the Ivory-billed Woodpecker

Over the years, there have been many posts here about the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Discussions of this topic have unfortunately been marred by individuals who have nothing more than misguided opinions to offer. If anyone is interested in reading about direct observations and evidence for the...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-billed Woodpecker evidence published

Video footage of several events involving flights, behaviors, field marks, and other characteristics that are consistent with the Ivory-billed Woodpecker but no other species has now been published in the following papers: Paper #1 discusses audio recordings and some of the evidence...

www.birdforum.net

Does the Ivory-billed woodpecker exist?

Based on what you know and your gut instinct what kind of odds would you put on the existence of a living Ivory-billed Woodpecker in terms of percentage?(50-50 etc.)

www.birdforum.net

Evidence for the Survival of the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker

I'm starting this new thread for debating the case for the survival of the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker. Let's try to keep it friendly, shall we? : )

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-billed Woodpecker re-discovery challenged!

See the following articles: http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050718/full/050718-10.html http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/science/21bird.html? Summary: Richard O. Prum, Mark B. Robbins and Jerome A. Jackson think evidence for IBWP is weak and doesn't rule out a leucistic Pileated Woodpecker...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates)

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has launched a new website for Ivory-billed woodpecker updates: http://www.fws.gov/ivorybill/ "This site will be updated regularly to include weekly updates of recovery activities and the latest recovery team information as it is developed. Inquiries should...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-billed Woodpecker Re discovered ?

This was sent out on the MOBirds listserve tonight. Sorry if it's already been posted. I just hope if it's true that the location is never revealed. http://www.birdingamerica.com/ivorybilledwoodpecker.htm

www.birdforum.net

Possible Ivory Billed Woodpecker Sighting in East Texas

Hi. This is my first post, I found this website on a search engine. On Easter Sunday there was a large bird resembling the Ivory Billed in my yard, down next to my pond. My daughter and I accidentally startled it and it flew away. I was amazed at what a large wingspan it had. It eventually came...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory Billed WoodPecker (weekend trip to Cache River, Arkansas)

I headed out of St. Louis Missouri for the Cache River area, not really knowing where I was going , but I just knew this was the place to be this past weekend. I wanted to take a good photo of the Ivory Bill. I wished it were still alive since I’ve been about 8 years old seeing it in my bird...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-Billed Woodpecker Possibility

I was at my parents getting some images the other day and was shooting a Redheaded Woodpecker. I described it to my Dad as I was shooting and he commented that he saw it frequently. I let him look in the Extend-A-View and he said that this was not the bird he had been seeing. He said the one he...

www.birdforum.net

Of course, if all the above containing a plethora of information and examples of ‘evidence’ is worthless tripe then I guess my ‘studies’ don’t stand up to much and I should stop reading these IBOW threads - I just thought the people that have contributed to/started threads here were also the same people involved in the search and/or claimed to have seen the IBOW.

Is there more ‘evidence’ that hasnt been linked to or directly posted on Birdforum in the past 15 years or so, that I should avail myself of?

 

[motiheal]

Ivory-billed Woodpecker: Debunking the Critics

Over the years, there have been many posts on birdforum about the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Despite a lack of quality in these discussions, I have posted occasional updates about my work on this topic for any bird watchers who might be interested in this magnificent bird and its conservation. I...

www.birdforum.net

conservation of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker

The Ivory-billed Woodpecker Deserves Better I concluded eight years of field work and research on the Ivory-billed Woodpecker in 2013. A series of lectures based on this work is posted at the above URL on the following issues: * The Ivory-billed Woodpecker persists. I had encounters in...

www.birdforum.net

(as) Ivory-billed Woodpecker Found???

(AS) Ivory-billed Woodpecker Found??? Amazonas Brazil-Fransisca Mendes-Saturday 11/5/2016 I was driving the car when I suddenly saw something red that looked like the crest of a woodpecker. It was in a tree about 300 feet from where I was, and as I kept driving more came into view. I saw the...

www.birdforum.net

new paper on the Ivory-billed Woodpecker

Over the years, there have been many posts here about the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Discussions of this topic have unfortunately been marred by individuals who have nothing more than misguided opinions to offer. If anyone is interested in reading about direct observations and evidence for the...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-billed Woodpecker evidence published

Video footage of several events involving flights, behaviors, field marks, and other characteristics that are consistent with the Ivory-billed Woodpecker but no other species has now been published in the following papers: Paper #1 discusses audio recordings and some of the evidence...

www.birdforum.net

Does the Ivory-billed woodpecker exist?

Based on what you know and your gut instinct what kind of odds would you put on the existence of a living Ivory-billed Woodpecker in terms of percentage?(50-50 etc.)

www.birdforum.net

Evidence for the Survival of the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker

I'm starting this new thread for debating the case for the survival of the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker. Let's try to keep it friendly, shall we? : )

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-billed Woodpecker re-discovery challenged!

See the following articles: http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050718/full/050718-10.html http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/science/21bird.html? Summary: Richard O. Prum, Mark B. Robbins and Jerome A. Jackson think evidence for IBWP is weak and doesn't rule out a leucistic Pileated Woodpecker...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates)

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has launched a new website for Ivory-billed woodpecker updates: http://www.fws.gov/ivorybill/ "This site will be updated regularly to include weekly updates of recovery activities and the latest recovery team information as it is developed. Inquiries should...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-billed Woodpecker Re discovered ?

This was sent out on the MOBirds listserve tonight. Sorry if it's already been posted. I just hope if it's true that the location is never revealed. http://www.birdingamerica.com/ivorybilledwoodpecker.htm

www.birdforum.net

Possible Ivory Billed Woodpecker Sighting in East Texas

Hi. This is my first post, I found this website on a search engine. On Easter Sunday there was a large bird resembling the Ivory Billed in my yard, down next to my pond. My daughter and I accidentally startled it and it flew away. I was amazed at what a large wingspan it had. It eventually came...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory Billed WoodPecker (weekend trip to Cache River, Arkansas)

I headed out of St. Louis Missouri for the Cache River area, not really knowing where I was going , but I just knew this was the place to be this past weekend. I wanted to take a good photo of the Ivory Bill. I wished it were still alive since I’ve been about 8 years old seeing it in my bird...

www.birdforum.net

Ivory-Billed Woodpecker Possibility

I was at my parents getting some images the other day and was shooting a Redheaded Woodpecker. I described it to my Dad as I was shooting and he commented that he saw it frequently. I let him look in the Extend-A-View and he said that this was not the bird he had been seeing. He said the one he...

www.birdforum.net

Of course, if all the above containing a plethora of information and examples of ‘evidence’ is worthless tripe then I guess my ‘studies’ don’t stand up to much and I should stop reading these IBOW threads - I just thought the people that have contributed to/started threads here were also the same people involved in the search and/or claimed to have seen the IBOW.

Is there more ‘evidence’ that hasnt been linked to or directly posted on Birdforum in the past 15 years or so, that I should avail myself of?

There is much more to read than this forum's sections. If they are like this thread, or the one Collins began... self-evident, point made. From my initial post--

"The more you read about IBWO evidence (Collins, Mark Michaels, Cornell, Auburn with Geoff Hill, Dan Mennill acoustic data, Bobby Harrison, Tim Gallagher, Martjan Lammartink, people involved in the Cuban efforts, sorry if I am leaving anyone else out), the more you believe."

You cannot come up to speed on this quickly. And since you have a hint of sarcasm, forgive me if I do not respond further?