Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (2 Viewers)

[naples]

have you never heard of people who definitely saw the Virgin Mary? There are towns that make a living off it.

there are people who have 'unmistakeably' seen Elvis, Bigfoot, Jimmy Hoffa, Nessie, UFOs and Lord Lucan riding Shergar (ok, perhaps not the last one)

just because someone says it, don't make it so. Can we not get past that simple philosophical hurdle?.

And for the record, all the 'top' birders I'm aware of are pretty sure the sightings are all bogus. Perhaps someone could name some 'top' believers?

If i were Guthrie I'd be there however long it took until i confirmed my sighting. If Bugun Liocichla can be found on a small stretch of road in the INdian mountains (repeatedly, and photographed) by a bunch of losers from the UK, I'm sure the U.S.s brightest stars can find a big noisy colourful woodpecker.

Tim, are you saying that IBWO's are as real as UFO's?

 

[Bgreen]

why on earth aren't the Cornell team making sightings widely known as soon as possible, so that as many people as possible with resources in the area can help find the bird ? It doesn't make any sense.

There are allot of folks in that area that hope that no more are found and that the Cornell team lose credibility. Their lives were turned upside down when the announcement of the discovery was made and they want it back the way it was. To many its "just a woodpecker" and they resent the intrusion by the hords of birdwatchers and the media. The PR was very poorly handled and is at the point now that if a specific location was identified with a sighting it could put the bird in danger. I do not know if that has anything to do with any of it or not, but if it doesn't someone paddling around in the swamp has been drinking too much stagnant water.

 

[Edward woodwood]

There are allot of folks in that area that hope that no more are found and that the Cornell team lose credibility. Their lives were turned upside down when the announcement of the discovery was made and they want it back the way it was. To many its "just a woodpecker" and they resent the intrusion by the hords of birdwatchers and the media. The PR was very poorly handled and is at the point now that if a specific location was identified with a sighting it could put the bird in danger. I do not know if that has anything to do with any of it or not, but if it doesn't someone paddling around in the swamp has been drinking too much stagnant water.

So if you want to kill one, you can easily find one?

birds are never refound at specific locations so perversely by getting everyone to go to that specific area you'd alleviate all the pressure on the bird - which is always somewhere else.

 

[Imaginos]

Just because he didn't get a second distinctive field mark of Ivory-bill, that doesn't mean he didn't see an Ivory-bill. Guthrie is a very experienced birder who went to Arkansas a skeptic, but he said his bird was "unmistakeably" an Ivory-billed Woodpecker.

I'm sure I've posted this point before but it's worth repeating. I've been out on the Somerset Levels with a very experienced birder (book-writing experienced) who mistook a heron for a harrier on brief glimpse. Mitigating circumstances? Well we were out looking for harriers so that bird was uppermost in our minds at the time. As an entomologist I quite often see specimens of common species misidentified (under the microscope) as something rarer, usually because the identifier wants to find something rare and seizes on something slightly abberrant and 'forces' it into what he/she wants it to be.

I've already said all that in this thread so I'll add something new. It strikes me that anybody can go out and claim a sighting of IBWO, and as long as it's at least slightly describing the bird it gets talked about. Equally I could probably write a semi-convincing description of a Great Auk if I wanted to ("We were fishing off Fair Isle, when I noticed some of the razorbills seemed a lot larger than I would usually expect..."). Seeing the humilations people are willing to go through in 'reality' TV for the smallest hint of fame it would not surprise me to learn that many of these IBWO sightings are purely attempts to do the same. Without wanting to cast aspertions on any individuals I'd wager that the traffic on these peoples personal websites have increased almost exponentially since they published their claims. Of course some may genuinely believe they'd seen the bird, but it's likely that others are making crop circles.

I note that no-one has responded to my theory-IBWO is extant, but nocturnal. I'd still like to see any arguments as to why this could not be the case.

 

[Ilya Maclean]

I note that no-one has responded to my theory-IBWO is extant, but nocturnal. I'd still like to see any arguments as to why this could not be the case.

Wasn't sure how serious you were being. Unlikely as no other Campephilus is. Also, no historic evidence anecdotal or otherwise of it being so and old photos demonstrate eye morphology is wrong for a nocturnal species

 

[Jane Turner]

Ah but don't forget how rapidly these things can evolve Iyla... a few generations to develop supernatural stealth. Perhaps that is why no one sees pale eyes anymore, they have big dark ones now.

 

[Imaginos]

Wasn't sure how serious you were being. Unlikely as no other Campephilus is. Also, no historic evidence anecdotal or otherwise of it being so and old photos demonstrate eye morphology is wrong for a nocturnal species

I was being facetious to be honest, but it's the only explanation I can think of to explain the pattern of sightings. Either that or they've evolved the ability to become invisible for long periods...

 

[Sancho]

Either that or they've evolved the ability to become invisible for long periods...

Hey, The Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, and the Chupacabras can all do it, and they´re all real, I saw them on Scooby-Doo...

 

[John Mariani]

I was being facetious to be honest, but it's the only explanation I can think of to explain the pattern of sightings. Either that or they've evolved the ability to become invisible for long periods...

The Ivory-billed Woodpecker can't be seen by just anyone. They are out there for those people who can see them. Personally I'm only able to see Pileateds.

 

[Imaginos]

The Ivory-billed Woodpecker can't be seen by just anyone. They are out there for those people who can see them. Personally I'm only able to see Pileateds.

Which brings me back to my main points on post 10846.

Of course the reason behind the lack of photos is probably all down to those pesky kids!

 

[John Mariani]

Which brings me back to my main points on post 10846.

Of course the reason behind the lack of photos is probably all down to those pesky kids!

When we unmask the person behind the Ivory-bill sightings don't be surprised if the culprit is old Mr. Withers from the haunted amusement park.

 

[Jane Turner]

But its always the janitor!

 

[James Blake]

Here at the Institute for Fortean Woodpecker Studies we're still reserving judgement.

 

[Jon K.]

I'm sure I've posted this point before but it's worth repeating. I've been out on the Somerset Levels with a very experienced birder (book-writing experienced) who mistook a heron for a harrier on brief glimpse. Mitigating circumstances? Well we were out looking for harriers so that bird was uppermost in our minds at the time. As an entomologist I quite often see specimens of common species misidentified (under the microscope) as something rarer, usually because the identifier wants to find something rare and seizes on something slightly abberrant and 'forces' it into what he/she wants it to be.
QUOTE]

I have wanted to make a point for quite a while now, and would like to address it to Imaginos, an entomologist. More conversation than any real contribution, but here goes:

I consider myself a barely competent field lepidopterist, I have spent many, many hours in the field identifying our local butterflies, moths, plus a few of the more interesting beetles, etc. However, I do not claim to be an expert by any means, as I know a few experts, more than enough to understand that I ain't one.

However, in the field, I do run across some very similar species of insects that are extremely hard to distinguish, and would like to give an example.

We have locally, two very small, very similar species of Satyrinae. The Gemmed Satyr (Cyllopsis gemma) please see link, if you are interested; http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1846

And the Carolina Satyr (Hermeuptychia sosybius). Again, if you have read this far, please see link;
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1847

These insects are just over an inch in wingspan, and very difficult to distinguish before netting. How are they distinguished? By the way they fly, but the difference is very, very subtle.

I have spent enough hours in the field observing the Carolina, which is quite common, that when I do chance across a Gemma, which is quite uncommon in my area, that I can instantly recognize the differences in the flight, no matter how brief the sighting. And again, understand that this is a tiny little butterfly.

Now, of course I have never seen an Ivorybill. On the other hand, I have seen many, many Pileateds. They are quite common, and have a very distinctive flight.

My point is, that if I were to see a large Woodpecker, well enough to be sure it was a woodpecker, and it did not fly like a Pileated, then what other conclusion could I make? Plus, if I could get a field mark, any field mark, I would dare any one of you to refute the sighting. I am that confident in my observational abilities. I can only believe that there are birders out there that possess at least the same level of ability as I, and probably (certainly) a great deal more.

I made the mistake of doubting myself on a Whooping Crane once. I had done no research on the Whooping Crane, but was of course familiar with the species, and it's status.

So when one flew across the highway a few hundred feet in front of me, I naturally assumed that I had lost my damn mind. I instantly knew what it was, I nailed the identification, but would not allow myself to believe it.

How many IBWO sightings are lost because of this?

After the sighting, I did some research to find that there is a resident population of Whoopers in the Kissimee Prairie. Which just happened to be right where I made my sighting.

Maybe I will see an IBWO some day. Probably not. But if I do, it will take more than a few skeptics to dissuade me.

Jon

 

[jurek]

They are out there

Yes, yes,yes! They don't exist.

Cornell ornithologists and ivorybill woodpeckers themselves have no interest in wide public knowing if and where this bird exists. They supressed actual discovery for one year and organized covert searches - in a perfect conspirancy which CIA could be proud of.

Now they actually send Men in Green who steal photos and intimidate anyone claiming to see ivorybill. o

 

[John Mariani]

Yes, yes,yes! They don't exist.

Cornell ornithologists and ivorybill woodpeckers themselves have no interest in wide public knowing if and where this bird exists. They supressed actual discovery for one year and organized covert searches - in a perfect conspirancy which CIA could be proud of.

Now they actually send Men in Green who steal photos and intimidate anyone claiming to see ivorybill. o

What makes you think the CIA wasn't involved? :-O

 

[Larry Sweetland]

What makes you think the CIA wasn't involved? :-O

And James Bond. Ivorybill does appear in his book Birds of the West Indies after all.

 

[SueO]

Here at the Institute for Fortean Woodpecker Studies we're still reserving judgement.

3 3 Too bad there isn't one of those smiley faces tipping a hat, James. I'd send one. Well, the I.F.W.S is obviously more open to possibilities than the A.B.S.

 

[Imaginos]

I have wanted to make a point for quite a while now, and would like to address it to Imaginos, an entomologist. More conversation than any real contribution, but here goes:

A good point Jon, I'll try to address the butterfly jizz angle from my own experiences. When I was doing butterfly surveys in Ireland a few years back there were large numbers of two very similar species-the green-veined white (Pieris napi) and the small white (Pieris rapae). Two white butterflies of almost identical size. After a few weeks of observaton combined with capture to be sure I felt confident on being able to identify both on the wing, at distance, from variation in their flight behaviour. This held true for most situations, however one of my transects tracked up the side of a 'mountain' (actually a large hill but the locals claimed it as a mountain) to a cliff face about 250-300 feet high. After a bit of analysis I noticed that I wasn't recording any GVW at this end of the transect. This seemed strange to me as there was no real difference between the two species population-wise everywhere else on the island. I investigated and realised that the increased windy conditions at that point in the transect completely blew my 'flight jizz' theory out of the water as the normally much flappier GVW was forced to fly in the more direct manner I had come to associate with the small white.

So, to answer your question, I would still hesitate to endorse any sightings identified by 'flight jizz' alone as this is a plastic feature much dependant on many variables such as weather conditions, what 'mental state' the bird may be in (relaxed, panicking, wary etc.), the state of the flight path (clear, strewn with twigs & branches etc.) stage of moult etc..

Of course if the 'flight jizz' character was combined with field marks, the sighting would be more believable but, as has already been discussed at length, some field marks are rather ambiguous-especially as there are reports of leucisistic Pileateds-and thus just one may not be enough to 'prove' a sighting.

 

[rdmadison]

Ah, friends!

Sounds like I missed an exciting long weekend. Mine was oh-so-boring: canoeing through the region of the 1675 Great Swamp Fight: hearing an influx of Blue-Winged Warblers, finding a really good chance of Red-Bellied Woodpecker breeding in Rhode Island (birds sighted and heard, near newly renovated hole--needs followup as this species continues to move north), presumably mating snapping turtles (call for details), and our cabin being attacked by wild turkeys at dawn (well, that's what it sounded like).

But the best part of the trip was driving home: at about four in the afternoon a large woodpecker flew from north to south across the road in a strong, straight flight with what appeared to be solid white patches extending to the back of the wings. Of course, it was 1) a going-away view looking into the sun 2) no other field marks were visible 3) this was southbound on the Garden State a half mile before the JerseyTurnpike exit. So either my theory about IBWO in low-earth orbit is true, or (duh) a New Jersey pileated in a stern chase looks like a textbook ivorybill . I'm afraid I reacted rather precipitously, calling out to my wife "Pileated flying right!" before I had a chance to discuss a possible ivorybill sighting with Cornell (or I guess it's really Pete Dunne's territory, isn't it?). So you guys who are doing the World Series of Birding this year, remember where you got the tip for your best bird . . .