• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Where premium quality meets exceptional value. ZEISS Conquest HDX.

Let's Play a Game Called ....... (2 Viewers)

Maljunulo

Well-known member
..... what I can see, at what range, and with which optics.

This afternoon I spent some time watching a Red-tailed Hawk (Buteo jamaicensis) at a laser-rangefinder measured distance of 115 yards.

The lowering sun was behind me, and the bird was in full sunlight, facing me, at 1630-1645 EDT.

I could clearly see the dark markings in its belly band, and the separations between them.

I could see its eye, when it held its head at the right angle. The eye appeared dark.

I could also see its individual toes, when they were splayed out on the branch. When they were in contact with each other, I resolved the toes with great difficulty. I did not, at any time, see any sign of the talons.

Swarovski Habicht 8X30 W.
 
I’ll play. From “What did you see in your binoculars today” (couple days ago).
27 birds at Valle Vista, yesterday.
Acorn Woodpecker
American Coot
American Kestrel
American Wigeon
Anna’s Hummingbird
Black Crowned Night Heron
California Scrub Jay
Dark-Eyed Junco
Double Crested Cormorant
Gadwall
Golden Crowned Sparrow
Great Egret
Greater Yellowlegs
Killdeer
Mallard
Mountain Bluebird
Northern Flicker
Pied Billed Grebe
Ring necked Duck
Ruddy Duck
Snowy Egret
Steller’s Jay
Turkey Vulture
Western Bluebird
Western Kingbird
Wilson’s Snipe
Yellow-rumped Warbler

Migration is well underway, with a few regulars still not yet here. Curiously no Geese, Pelicans, Swans, Terns, only a few Swallows. Unusual. Equally different was presence and activity of passerines.

Had fun with range finder and Kestral, hoping to add something resembling facts to controversy over what distances we bird. I spotted a very small bird on top of "telephone" pole in field. Knew from past experiences good chance it was a Kestral. Put 8x32s onto bird. Could barely make out colors/markings typical of one. Because these are known to be here, I was reasonably sure what it was. Then put scope at 18X and confirmed. Red head spot of male and lovely markings revealed. Range? 197 yards.
Re last paragraph, to be clear if only 832s to hand, I would not have recorded the Kestral. Knowing the place, where Kestrals seen in past and glimpsing colors through Bino, then brought the scope to bear to confirm. 197 yards (via rangefinder), seems an extreme distance for bird this size at 8X.

Scope is Opticron MM4 77mm with 18-54 eyepiece. Sirui tripod and head. Binos NL.
 
Last edited:
Last night we had the first clear skies for yonks.
Up until about 100 mins. after sunset I was out looking for comet Tsuchinshan.
At the odd hundred million kilometres with my 8x56 SLC I could see............NOTHING! :(

Seriously though, I do think there is a tendency for many to exaggerate observing distances.

John
 
Last night we had the first clear skies for yonks.
Up until about 100 mins. after sunset I was out looking for comet Tsuchinshan.
At the odd hundred million kilometres with my 8x56 SLC I could see............NOTHING! :(

Seriously though, I do think there is a tendency for many to exaggerate observing distances.

John
John,

What were you thinking?
You should have used the Sky Rover......... Sigh

Jan
 
Last night we had the first clear skies for yonks.
Up until about 100 mins. after sunset I was out looking for comet Tsuchinshan.
At the odd hundred million kilometres with my 8x56 SLC I could see............NOTHING! :(

Seriously though, I do think there is a tendency for many to exaggerate observing distances.

John
That’s why a few of us use rangefinders.
 
We go on here at great length, about resolution, sharpness, and so on.

I thought it might be interesting to talk about what we can actually see.

"Resolution, sharpness" alongside, Immersive, transparent, depth of focus, field of view... at 1000 whatevers...

What ever

How about the hint of a Least Bittern at 114 yards clinging to the swaying cattail across the pond with 8X, brought to life at 25X with scope?
 
I've never seen a bittern,although I think we have two here.

I'd be more interested in what detail you saw with 8X.
With naked eye, at 114 yards not much. Scanning, hoping, with 8X there's something there, not sure what zactly. Its definitely a bird. Based on overall color, rough size estimate, and past experience "suspect" it's the Bittern. 18X scope confirms. Lovely views, lots of details. Can see feet wrapped around cattail stalk swaying with wind. Can see bird stick its beak down into pond and extract a fish. Markings, colors clear enough. Fun to have had it and Green Heron sharing view one day. Green Heron when neck is extended and only partial views of that, have fooled me into confusing which is which in past. Going back to 8X, think I can see more, recognize a bit better. Is that real though?
 
That’s why a few of us use rangefinders.

Just a couple of remarks:-
Depending on the reflectivity of the target the rangefinder will not always be able to indicate values up to its specification maximum.
Long range capability is tempting but it's very difficult to lock on to a small target at long distance if there is no large reference surface near it.
Most laser rangefinders are jittery little monoculars and their use reminds me of target pistol shoooting with a misplaced trigger and lousy grip!

John
 
On a distant roof I saw a gull (Larus argentatus) at a distance of 195m. I don't have a rangefinder but I do have google map ;)
It was in a day with sun light filtered by a few thin clouds.
The gull cleans his feathers. I saw the back of the wings with discreet streaks of gray. The tips of the wings were intensive black with small white spots here and there. When he cleaned his wings, his immaculate white tail was revealed! The neck and head was also immaculate white. When he directed his eyes towards the sun the eyes were distinct, with the same yellowish shade as the bill. But when they were in the shade, the eyes appeared gray. The legs were of a paler yellow, being a little shaded, but the knees could be seen as small swellings. When it was in the sun light the bill was vivid yellow and I could see on it a little reddish spot!

Zeiss Victory SF 10x42
 
I’m not ranging on birds, I’m ranging on trees.

With bare branches, I’ll suspend ranging.

I would imagine the returns would be weaker.
 

Just a couple of remarks:-
Depending on the reflectivity of the target the rangefinder will not always be able to indicate values up to its specification maximum.
Long range capability is tempting but it's very difficult to lock on to a small target at long distance if there is no large reference surface near it.
Most laser rangefinders are jittery little monoculars and their use reminds me of target pistol shoooting with a misplaced trigger and lousy grip!

John
Thats true John. Leupold even describes the variability of its maximum distance as a thing dependent on target quality. Im fairly sure though as the described max range is out somewhere around 1200 yards, this will not be an issue for birding. Its also true getting the range off a bird may be challenging, and one is dependent on a close proximity limb, boulder or some such. The error of that seems acceptable enough for what we're doing, no?

So far do not share your analogy of aiming the RF to shooting a pistol though...
 
I don't have a rangefinder but I do have google map
That's what I use for my own "rangefinding". Landmarks and locations are easily pinpointed in the city and hope the distances given are reasonably accurate (!).

From my office rooftop the ledge where the more easily observed of two pairs of peregrines regularly sit is just over 960m away, and with 10x or even 8x binoculars I can easily tell if they're there (maybe less so if they have their backs to me, and are tucked in a corner, and the light isn't good).
 
With naked eye, at 114 yards not much. Scanning, hoping, with 8X there's something there, not sure what zactly. Its definitely a bird. Based on overall color, rough size estimate, and past experience "suspect" it's the Bittern. 18X scope confirms. Lovely views, lots of details. Can see feet wrapped around cattail stalk swaying with wind. Can see bird stick its beak down into pond and extract a fish. Markings, colors clear enough. Fun to have had it and Green Heron sharing view one day. Green Heron when neck is extended and only partial views of that, have fooled me into confusing which is which in past. Going back to 8X, think I can see more, recognize a bit better. Is that real though?
My guess is yes. It’s easier to see what we know is there.

Green Heron is one of my favorites.
That's what I use for my own "rangefinding". Landmarks and locations are easily pinpointed in the city and hope the distances given are reasonably accurate (!).

From my office rooftop the ledge where the more easily observed of two pairs of peregrines regularly sit is just over 960m away, and with 10x or even 8x binoculars I can easily tell if they're there (maybe less so if they have their backs to me, and are tucked in a corner, and the light isn't good).
Patudo, Im seeing this above, a bit different from our last exchange on identifying birds at that distance. Here, I read you this way:
Google Maps says its 960 meters between places.
Peregrines are known, (somehow), to roost there.
You see birds there with your 8/10X binos.
You assume, believe, think, they are Peregrines (which they most likely are), cuz they're known to be there.
I don't think you are saying you see Peregrines, well enough at nearly 1000 meters without something for context to make the ID...
Are you?

Thinking about many conversations here at Birdforum, where distances like "FOV at 1000 whatevers" and other stuff is written, I had wanted to buy a rangefinder for some time. After yours and my exchange on this topic, and then Richard's described purchase I had to jump. Was thinking about our exchange when I wrote the question to Richard above. Here's a different version. Say multiple times, from one distance/angle of view, maybe via scope, we identify a Kestral sitting on a telephone pole top. Then we come back another time but from a slightly different location we spot a bird in almost that same place but cant quite make out the necessary details with binos only. Do we dare say it's a Kestral? Would you record it on your list (assuming you keep one) as a Kestral?

Sitting a few days after receiving rangefinder on a bench overlooking a bit of SF Bay, I ranged a couple towers a ways out, at about 1100 yards. There were birds closer in I had identified, a Surf Scoter, couple Scaup, unusual for this time of year at maybe 150 to 200 yards. With 10X binos I could see enough to make those identities. Looking at the towers though, with these birds in the foreground I thought, "Wow, not sure I can see a bird over there. It'll need to be a bigger species. Pretty skeptical Id be able to make an ID though."
 
Last edited:
I can identify a Blue Jay (obviously a familiar species) on a bright sunny day at 350 yards, if it is flaring to land.

It’s easier at 195 yards. If it is perched at either distance, I cannot identify it.

I can positively identify one perched at 150 yards.

Just my observations, take them for what they’re worth.

8X30W Habicht
 
Last edited:
I don't think you are saying you see Peregrines, well enough at nearly 1000 meters without something for context to make the ID...
Are you?
What you will see at that distance will look like a small white shape on the ledge (if the bird is facing out and showing its pale breast). But because it's their regular ledge (and I've viewed them at the ledge at shorter distances in the past and know it well), I know what it is.

This Sunday gone the birds (another pair nearer my flat) were perched up on a high crane about a mile away from my viewpoint. After the bird I was following had landed on top of the crane and settled itself, all I could see was a tiny little silhouette projecting from the metalwork, but it could definitely be seen, and if you're familiar with peregrines you'd know what it was. At that distance you should be able to tell what they are when they take flight, as wing shape, silhouette, and manner of flight can all be discerned. (Nikon 10x42 SE)

Becoming comfortable with viewing over such distances took some time. I well remember, in the early days, changing my observation point from one about 300m from the ledge to one at about 680m, and thinking how far away the birds seemed. But if you hope to follow these birds that range so far and high, that's what you've got to do.
 
Last edited:
As it's only an old man's game...

The bird furthest away that I've positively IDd with my eyes was a golden eagle. Early 1990's, I was on a hillside South of Haweswater, it was flying northwards other side of the reservoir up a side valley; 'Miles away'.
Do I get a prize when it was a bright clear day in a very selective habitat looking for a particularly distinctive bird (which I'd seen a few years earlier high on the slopes of Ben Nevis), that was unique in England at that time? 😁

Eyes aided with 12x42NL binocular? In a London park looking at a plane receding into the clear blue distance there was a spec of a bird in my view, which flew a bit closer and with long tail & chunky wings became the silhouette of a sparrowhawk.
Distracted by the dog for only a moment I looked away, then back at the sky which was effectively empty.
Never got that bird back in view. How far away was it?

I have wondered at what distance roughly does a bird the size of a sparrowhawk become visible to our eyes as a moving spec?
Could we simply multiply that distance by the magnification used to get the equivalent binocular spec distance?

Anyway, what I love about excellent quality binoculars is, viewing near or far they provide a revelation.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top