Thanks for the info. Appreciated.
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Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter rahopko
- Start date
Thanks for the info. Appreciated.
Thanks for the confirmation.
When I clicked the link initially, I saw a moving list of signers on the right hand side saying how long ago they'd signed; it began for me about 2 hours previously then got up to date showing the new signatories either as they signed, or as they confirmed I suppose.
I just thought it strange I couldn't see it after I'd signed.
Van Remsen helped me edit the original petition so I am sure he has sent the link to everyone on the SACC (minus oneHas anyone passed the petition onto the SACC yet? I feel like they might be interested.Especially if they were to spread it around a bit themselves.
) and NACC. He emailed me a few days ago and said he had spent considerable effort sharing it. Now we wait....We are now over 1600 signatures representing 36 countries. Many prominent ornithologists have signed on. There have been quite a few updates to the petition including comments by Steve Howell, Kevin Zimmer, Jon Dunn and a very interesting article by Rohan Pethiyagoda. Hope you will all take a look.
sicklebill
well-known Cretaceous relic
Chris Goodie has it nailed, an excellent post and worth a look
Here is a link to his comments: Chris Gooddie
Lerxst
Well-known member
John Boyd, who manages the Taxonomy in Flux site, has expressed his support for the petition.
Excellent comments from Jon Dunn. My main concern is that this AOS policy rewrites history and I have an instinctive dislike of that sort of action. I also find it the thin end of a ludicrous wedge. I look forward to that point in the future when we have successfully slayed the 'Climate Change' dragon and anyone ( either through science, writings, investment , wealth etc. ) who was associated with the petrochemical industry must be expunged from any reference in our world......I don't think there will be many left who we dare mention.
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l_raty
laurent raty
Well, anyway, once we'll have renamed everything, we'll cease being able to retrieve data from older sources, and change will not be demonstrable any more...
awiner
Well-known member
I've seen slippery slope arguments, but I haven't seen anyone slide down quite as large a glacier as you've done here. No one is "rewriting history", no matter how many times that canard is repeated, but you're writing an entire dystopian work of fiction.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
Indeed I am quite tired of the endless repeat loop of fatalistic hyperbole. There are ridiculous statements and poorly constructed arguments and a lack of logic on both sides but many people who I otherwise respect have made themselves look quite a bit less respectable of late.
I realize that these arguments are not being made for my entertainment but they also really don’t work, at least with me. If anything, they have led me to ignore the majority of the arguments against the changes because very few of them are argued without hyperbole or ad hominem attacks.
They’ve also convinced me that in most any situation where the word woke is invoked I’d rather be labeled woke than be the person using it as a pejorative. Firstly, ad hominem attacks are what they are - ineffective debate tools that reflect poorly on the attacker and secondly, whatever your viewpoint on any issue, using terms like “woke” and “snowflake” basic labels you, like it or not, and true or not, as an inflexible old grump/conservative.
I realize that these arguments are not being made for my entertainment but they also really don’t work, at least with me. If anything, they have led me to ignore the majority of the arguments against the changes because very few of them are argued without hyperbole or ad hominem attacks.
They’ve also convinced me that in most any situation where the word woke is invoked I’d rather be labeled woke than be the person using it as a pejorative. Firstly, ad hominem attacks are what they are - ineffective debate tools that reflect poorly on the attacker and secondly, whatever your viewpoint on any issue, using terms like “woke” and “snowflake” basic labels you, like it or not, and true or not, as an inflexible old grump/conservative.
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One thing that I think should be mentioned is an argument that came up some years ago in the discussion of an SACC proposal, Just how many variations of Gray-whatever-tyrannulet can you come up with that isn't excessively similar to all the others? at least a person's name associated with some type of flycatcher is different sounding, instead of being just another Gray-whatever.
Niels
Niels
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
This is a valid point for certain. Within Tyrannidae or Thannophilidae it is challenging to keep finding names. While “it’s hard to do it differently” is not inherently a good reason to avoid change, it will be / would be a lot harder to find good names for Gould’s Antbird, Ihering’s Antwren, Hammond’s Flycatcher, and McConnell’s Flycatcher than Steller’s Eider, Costa’s Hummingbird, or Scott’s Oriole, for instance.
Just not quite tired enough to do everything you proclaim to be unhappy with.
So much for hyperbole, ad hominem attacks, and ineffective debate tools that reflect poorly on the attacker, which you apparently like quite well, as long as you’re the one using them.
Lerxst
Well-known member
I agree 100% that name-calling isn't effective. I try to refrain from doing so. It is bad form and it only hurts your cause.
But people on the right or in the middle didn't invent the term "woke" - the left did. And they have used it plenty of times themselves to label their own political philosophy. For example:
9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher - Orion Magazine
Lower your binoculars. See bird and person in the full context of their being, feathers or skin.
orionmagazine.org
So if we (and I speak as a centrist myself) are not supposed to use that term, because you and others find it off-putting, then which one should we use? I'm not being flippant here. One side invents a word, others use it, and then the first side cries foul. Okay, give us the word you like, then. I am far less interested in the label than I am in hearing someone attempt to justify the position it stands for. Which is what we need to be talking about.
I'm also not sure that any term won't eventually be a pejorative when used by the opposing side. I've heard plenty of people on the left sneeringly use "capitalist" or "nationalist" or "religious" (and much, much more) as put-downs. It cuts both ways.
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Mysticete
Well-known member
The issue is that woke has become a right-wing dog whistle that has lost all meaning. To let Wikipedia sum it up (emphasis mine)
"The phrase stay woke has been present in AAVE since the 1930s. In some contexts, it referred to an awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in recordings from the mid-20th century by Lead Belly and, post-millennium, by Erykah Badu.
The term woke gained further popularity in the 2010s. Over time, it became increasingly connected to matters beyond race such as gender and identities perceived as marginalized. During the 2014 Ferguson protests, the phrase was popularized by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. After the term was used on Black Twitter, woke was increasingly used by white people, who often used it to signal their support for BLM; some commentators criticized this usage as cultural appropriation. The term became popular with millennials and members of Generation Z. As its use spread internationally, woke was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2017.
By 2020, many on the political right and some in the center in several Western countries began using the term sarcastically as a pejorative for various leftist and progressive movements and ideologies. In turn, some commentators came to consider woke an offensive term that disparages persons who promote progressive ideas involving identity and race. Since then, derivative terms such as woke-washing and woke capitalism have been coined to describe the conduct of persons or entities who signal support for progressive causes rather than working toward genuine change.
It takes very very little for people to consider something "woke". In media for instance, Woke is thrown around for any game/movie/book/show which features a POC or female lead character, and any media that gives even a small role to a gay or trans person. Woke has just turned into "anything I don't understand or like" Hence why many of us, when we hear the term, have warning signs go off in our heads. Hell, even basic ideas like sex ed or acknowledging that slavery is bad causes some folks on the right to scream Woke.
"The phrase stay woke has been present in AAVE since the 1930s. In some contexts, it referred to an awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans. The phrase was uttered in recordings from the mid-20th century by Lead Belly and, post-millennium, by Erykah Badu.
The term woke gained further popularity in the 2010s. Over time, it became increasingly connected to matters beyond race such as gender and identities perceived as marginalized. During the 2014 Ferguson protests, the phrase was popularized by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. After the term was used on Black Twitter, woke was increasingly used by white people, who often used it to signal their support for BLM; some commentators criticized this usage as cultural appropriation. The term became popular with millennials and members of Generation Z. As its use spread internationally, woke was added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2017.
By 2020, many on the political right and some in the center in several Western countries began using the term sarcastically as a pejorative for various leftist and progressive movements and ideologies. In turn, some commentators came to consider woke an offensive term that disparages persons who promote progressive ideas involving identity and race. Since then, derivative terms such as woke-washing and woke capitalism have been coined to describe the conduct of persons or entities who signal support for progressive causes rather than working toward genuine change.
It takes very very little for people to consider something "woke". In media for instance, Woke is thrown around for any game/movie/book/show which features a POC or female lead character, and any media that gives even a small role to a gay or trans person. Woke has just turned into "anything I don't understand or like" Hence why many of us, when we hear the term, have warning signs go off in our heads. Hell, even basic ideas like sex ed or acknowledging that slavery is bad causes some folks on the right to scream Woke.
That is the first mention of the word 'woke' in this thread....... so thanks for being the one to invoke it.
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