Poll - Do you agree or disagree with the AOS's recent decision to abandon the use of eponymous bird names? (4 Viewers)

[raymie]

Given what I understand to be the polarised nature of US politics at the moment, this was an entirely predictable consequence of the BN4B / AOS decision. The proponents of the change should have foreseen that this was going to be seen as another salvo in the culture wars, this time originating from the left, but likely to result in a predictable response from the other side. If they didn't, they were either really naive, or in such a rarified bubble that they considered their views to be mainstream and unlikely to meet opposition.
It is just such an unnecessary intrusion into birding and bird conservation, where people of quite widely differing political views should be able to find common ground in a shared interest in birds and their continuing welfare.

Honestly another major reason I was am the AOS decision. This was an inevitable outcome.

 

[Kirk Roth]

Given what I understand to be the polarised nature of US politics at the moment, this was an entirely predictable consequence of the BN4B / AOS decision. The proponents of the change should have foreseen that this was going to be seen as another salvo in the culture wars, this time originating from the left, but likely to result in a predictable response from the other side. If they didn't, they were either really naive, or in such a rarified bubble that they considered their views to be mainstream and unlikely to meet opposition.
It is just such an unnecessary intrusion into birding and bird conservation, where people of quite widely differing political views should be able to find common ground in a shared interest in birds and their continuing welfare.

Absolutely agreed. Being surrounded by the polarized US politics, this consideration should have been first and foremost to those proposing the change.

It is indeed an unnecessary intrusion to have politicians involved in bird names and ornithology... but they were practically invited.

 

[Kirk Roth]

You are basically saying that they should have acknowledged that about half of voting americans are insane and worked around it.

We are all insane. I just happen to like the ways that I'm insane. 😜

 

[kb57]

You are basically saying that they should have acknowledged that about half of voting americans are insane and worked around it.

I wouldn't put it in quite those terms, but basically yes - you've got to be realistic about the likely consequences of your decision in the real world, and work within those parameters, ideally appealing to shared values.
I don't mean pandering to extreme views either (like those who no doubt still think McCown was a great bloke).

 

[raymie]

I wouldn't put it in quite those terms, but basically yes - you've got to be realistic about the likely consequences of your decision in the real world, and work within those parameters, ideally appealing to shared values.
I don't mean pandering to extreme views either (like those who no doubt still think McCown was a great bloke).

Not exactly defending McCown but I still don't understand why he was singled out when figures like Scott and Bachman are also there...

 

[kb57]

Not exactly defending McCown but I still don't understand why he was singled out when figures like Scott and Bachman are also there...

This is explained well by Van Remsen on the David Lindo podcast - he wasn't going to be singled out, he was just first in what was going to be a process of weeding out those deemed to have done bad things.

 

[Kirk Roth]

The Utah Legislature has passed a bill that would require the state to use bird names as they appeared on the AOS checklist in January 2020:

Politically correct bird names? That doesn’t fly with Utah Legislature.

The American Ornithological Society has launched an effort to change the names of bird species that are named after people, the reason being that all the people are white men and some of them have racist histories. But this doesn't sit well with the Utah Legislature, which included language in a...

www.sltrib.com

I've read the law and its a little silly:

988 (2) (a) The division shall use the English-language name assigned to a bird by a
989 naming entity that was in effect on January 1, 2020, when using an English-language name
990 while engaging in the management of the bird or habitat for the bird.

I think a lawyer could argue that the AOS was "a naming entity that was in effect on January 1, 2020" and therefore use of their new names by Utah's government would still be legal. The sloppy language allows for an interpretation like that.

But if that isn't the interpretation... then Utah has no Western Flycatchers. Being avid birders, I'm sure all the Utah legislators were well aware of that consequence (insert sarcasm here). And if the Yellow-rumped Warbler gets split, Utah will have two birds with the same name.

 

[qwerty5]

You are basically saying that they should have acknowledged that about half of voting americans are insane and worked around it.

Comments like this are precisely why American politics are as divided as they are.

 

[qwerty5]

Not exactly defending McCown but I still don't understand why he was singled out when figures like Scott and Bachman are also there...

Someone posted an article on here which included the fact that while Bachman owned slaves, he actually helped advance blacks in a number of ways. In which case, based on the standards of his day and culture, he actually was not a bad character.

 

[kb57]

On the subject of judging people by present-day standards, this is a really good link from the other (petition) thread, accessed via the Stability for English Bird Names website: The Arrogance of the Present
It posits a 'thought experiment' set in 2173, when everyone is vegan and synthetic alternatives to meat are the norm, and there is universal revulsion to the practice of eating animals. In this context, there is a move to replace all the streets, institutions and scholarships named after Nelson Mandela, because it was a matter of historical record that he ate meat.
The point it makes is that this is an example of the 'arrogance of the present', the concept that we know so much better than our forebears, who should be judged by today's standards.

 

[jurek]

There are proverbs like who sows a wind, reaps a whirlwind.

They should have foreseen that if they start turning political, then somebody else might also use the opportunity to cheaply score some popularity points.

So, are they going to politicize bird watching further, or accept that the idea of solving social injustice by names of birds was not a good one and stop?

 

[opisska]

Maybe it would be clearer with less sarcasm: the bill is stupid. And it doesn't matter what you think about the bird naming - it's still stupid. Even if you "foresee" this happening, there is no moral obligation to "adjust your actions to accommodate idiocy". If anything, I see a strong impetus to NOT be discouraged by things like this bill, to show them that this simply doesn't work.

 

[Farnboro John]

Maybe it would be clearer with less sarcasm: the bill is stupid. And it doesn't matter what you think about the bird naming - it's still stupid. Even if you "foresee" this happening, there is no moral obligation to "adjust your actions to accommodate idiocy". If anything, I see a strong impetus to NOT be discouraged by things like this bill, to show them that this simply doesn't work.

There's no intellectual obligation to adjust your actions to accommodate idiocy either, idiocy should always be called out for what it is and fought against as hard as possible (by anyone who isn't an idiot).

John

 

[Mysticete]

Someone posted an article on here which included the fact that while Bachman owned slaves, he actually helped advance blacks in a number of ways. In which case, based on the standards of his day and culture, he actually was not a bad character.

He also published several theological pieces arguing that the keeping of black slaves was perfectly in line with biblical teachings. So it just wasn't that he happened to be a slave owner, he also was a staunch advocate for slavery and important defender of the institution.

 

[Mysticete]

The funny thing means that if the Yellow-rumped Warbler, for instance, is split, presumably you still have to keep calling it a Yellow-rumped Warbler. The taxonomy would have to be locked in place. Given time, legally Utah might be the only state in the union where your life list automatically decreases when you visit

Also, for folks saying that the AOS invited the Utah legislature to do this, The moment someone suggested that birds should have name changes to remove an eponym, this became a culture war issue, regardless of what AOS was going to do. And I bet if AOS had taken a measured approach as some like Remsen had suggested, Utah would still have passed this law.

 

[raymie]

The funny thing means that if the Yellow-rumped Warbler, for instance, is split, presumably you still have to keep calling it a Yellow-rumped Warbler. The taxonomy would have to be locked in place. Given time, legally Utah might be the only state in the union where your life list automatically decreases when you visit

Also, for folks saying that the AOS invited the Utah legislature to do this, The moment someone suggested that birds should have name changes to remove an eponym, this became a culture war issue, regardless of what AOS was going to do. And I bet if AOS had taken a measured approach as some like Remsen had suggested, Utah would still have passed this law.

I doubt a few small changes like Scott's Oriole or Bachman's Sparrow would have prompted such a law, given such a change wouldn't have made national news and Utah did nothing back when McCown's Longspur was changed.

 

[Mysticete]

I am not so sure of that...Since the Biden election win politics if anything have degenerated further, which has resulted in bills being passed by state legislatures that would have (or were) dead on arrival a decade ago.

At this point, I just assume that every single facet of our lives is at some point going to be subsumed into the culture wars, because there is more money in stirring conflict than their is in encouraging harmony.

 

[qwerty5]

The funny thing means that if the Yellow-rumped Warbler, for instance, is split, presumably you still have to keep calling it a Yellow-rumped Warbler. The taxonomy would have to be locked in place. Given time, legally Utah might be the only state in the union where your life list automatically decreases when you visit

Yeah, this clearly was proposed with minimal thought, and no idea about ornithology or taxonomy. Who knows, the Utah legislature may become a new taxonomic committee, with a bill to recognize each new split. Gotta love the priorities of American politics.

 

[raymie]

Just to note some additional context on this:

Bio of the rep that wrote the resolution: Snider was raised in Liberty, Utah. He earned a Bachelor of Science degree in conservation and restoration ecology, law, and constitutional studies from Utah State University and a Master of Science in environmental science and policy from Johns Hopkins University.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Look on the bright side, you won't have to use Short-billed Gull.........................