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Pure NL the right one for me? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter MatthiasGr
- Start date
Isthatascratch?
Well-known member
You could make the argument, whether you agree with it or not, that if you try almost all the binoculars for even a short period of time you are in quite a good position to make an informed critique.
The skill is probably in putting that experience and assessment into a clearer and more concise review and not completely contradicting yourself.
I always like to try things and form my own conclusions no matter what others say and maybe too much structure and regulations take away freedom of expression.
Having said all that, I agree that some idea about the direction or mission isn’t completely crazy…
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I for one hope that Birdforum does not become a place where moderators dictate the content that members can post.
The problem with what you are saying, and you have expressed in PMs, is that you want moderators to censor the opinions of various members. Or more than this, specifically manage content that you don't approve of. This, in my opinion, is not the role of moderators, nor of Birdforum more widely - it is a forum for all members to express their views, whether we like these views or not. It is then the role, or at least choice, of members to counter opinions they disagree with by respectfully presenting their alternative views.
I for one hope that Birdforum does not become a place where moderators dictate the content that members can post.
Hermann
Well-known member
BF is neither the "military" nor a "decent sized manufacturer of related consumer products" or "MBA school". BF is a forum where people can share thoughts, information and opinions loosely related to nature, birds, birding and conservation. And to talk to each other about all those topics. For fun. To learn from others. To enjoy themselves. Does BF need a mission or vision statement? No, it doesn't.
You seem to be seeing BF as something it is not. As an "organization" with specific "aims, goals, values". You also seem to believe that whenever people meet without a set of specific aims, goals and values "anarchy ensues". I find that's a very narrow and possibly naive view of the world.
NB: BF is not an American forum. Its members come from countries all over the world. Using cultural references that are specific to the US is not a polite thing to do.
Let me come back to your use of "we". Back in the old days of usenet (if you don't know what it is, ask Wikipedia) people who used "we" to argue for whatever position were often asked "Who is 'we'? Is that you and your hamster? The royal we? Or a schizophrenic 'we'?"
BTW, I don't have a problem. Not even a "specific problem".
Good. As long as they make sure the discussions here are civil, without racial slurs and ad hominem attacks, they do a good job.
Hermann
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MatthiasGr
Member
Thanks for all the advise.
I‘ll go to a shop on Tuesday to test the NL 10x32 against the SFL 10x40.
Today I had the chance to compare my Vortex against a Swaro CL Companion in 10x30 - already this felt so nice that I preferred to just keep this one, but looking forward trying the „big ones“, too.
I‘ll go to a shop on Tuesday to test the NL 10x32 against the SFL 10x40.
Today I had the chance to compare my Vortex against a Swaro CL Companion in 10x30 - already this felt so nice that I preferred to just keep this one, but looking forward trying the „big ones“, too.
While you’re there take a quick peek through an 8X32.
You may (or may not) be surprised.
I will bet you like the NL 10x32 the best. That 7.5 degree FOV with tack sharp edges is very seductive. Look for glare in the NL 10x32. The SFL 10x40 has the same FOV as the CL Companion of 6.2 degrees, so they will seem almost tunnel like after trying the NL. Look closely at the edges of the SFL 10x40 for a blue ring, lovingly known as the 'Blue Ring of Death'. I saw it in the SFL 8x40, but you may never see it.
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Yes Jos I understand from our past interactions that is how you interpret it. That is unfortunate. I had hoped by now watching and listening what is going on, what others are doing, you would’ve understood things a little better.
Ironically you make the same mistake I elude to. You are incorrect to generalize. I do not want moderators to censor the opinion of various members. That is a significant misrepresentation of what I have said to you. As for content I dont approve of? Really? What if the content is flat wrong, has been discredited by many members on many occasions and continues. You are watching here right? Do you think I’m alone in this? We have one member spewing nonsense who is daily corrected, explained to, refuses to stop. His insults, have gone onto some of the most respected folks we have participating here. You have noticed this right? Is that opinion that should be allowed? Do I have to ask this?
Comity vs content? Yes I recall that was a new idea for you. Of course members have a right to their opinions and to express those opinions, Just as I have the right to post mine. Thats not what we’re talking about here. I suspect you know that.
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You do use analogies where you hang? I like to talk with most everyone here. Fun is the only reason to do this. We disagree about BF needing a bit of guidance.
Well you are welcome to your opinion. “Whenever” seems a bit too strong. Don’t see how it would hurt to have BF, even as a loosely organized thing, express some interest in not having a member repeatedly abuse facts, especially after multiple members on multiple occasions are attempting to get him to stop. How many times have we seen such an exchange devolve into personal attack? That my friend is not fun.
Again you are welcome to your opinion. Are you referring to my Rodney king quote? Sorry if you missed that. Hardly think it’s impolite. But that is my opinion.
Ok, if you say so. Thought I clarified.
Not tracking.
Are they always civil though? The situation Im alluding to often devolves to ad hominem attack against some of the most respected members who come here. Too often members respected enough to bring fact to a conversation, correct a misuse or misquote get called names or are otherwise insulted.
You do understand I’m kvetching about the very same thing you don’t want either… right?
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MikeRottier
Well-known member
Make sure to place them right in front of your eyes whilst you hold your head up, and not resting them under your eyebrows while tilting your head a bit forward. A lot of the milky haze in the underside of the view is just a reflection of the light coming from your cheeks. And try another brand too. The colours and look of the image are different. It's subtle, but it's there. For example: given the choice between a Zeiss Conquest 10x42 and a NL10x42 I would choose the Zeiss. Even when it's half the price. But that's me, everyone is different. And don't get me wrong: The NL is a wonderfull binocular.
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Jason Bugay Reyes
Well-known member
Matthias,
Let me apologize for being involved in the hijack of your thread, not providing you the straight forward help you requested and now quoting you here. I hope its OK. We're working on something I believe you actually describe quite well.
Jos, Hermann, Richard, Harry, etc
Why oh why would I suggest what I have? Please read what this new poster wrote above and notice the underlined, bolded text. This is the person Im worried about - not you, not the regular posters who come here most days to discuss this or that. Note these words, "contradictory", "overwhelming", "glare" (gonna undo a decision without even trying)... oh my! We, (the regulars) come here to have "fun" even if sometimes its a strange version of that. But don't we have a responsibility to new folks who come here looking for advice? We all get to express our opinions. OK. Are all opinions equal? Are they all subject to the same protections? Do you see what I suggest this spawns.
I came here in 2020 doing exactly the same thing as Matthias. Like other forums at first I hung back, read, tried to understand not just the info, but the people posting. Who really knows? Who wants people to think they know? Who's daily recreation is posting on a forum? Who actually uses the things vs those who collect. Im not denigrating collectors. It's just that their criterion and those of actual birders dont always align. Who's posting contradictory silliness. It took awhile, but not that long to figure out the few who really do know, and the others. Its a tough task we ask of visitors. Im trying my darnedest to not name, not insult, not rise to some challenging things a couple of you have written. There is one word in that above that will hopefully inform anybody who comes upon this and wonders what Im going on about. What is the value of an opinion that confuses, misleads, misrepresents, is not substantiated with fact, proper science, experience or qualified with context, at least?
Ill end this for now with these words from our most respected leader:
Gents, no real easy way to say this so I'm going to say it as it is. I am sick to the back teeth of waking up to find a whole load of mail or PMs about the total disregard by a FEW members for the postings and views of other members in the optics section of BF.
One or two on here get involved in every thread posted and it seems if you don't agree with them then you are brow beaten or told how wrong you are, well it doesn't work like that I'm afraid and its going to stop, because I am simply just going to kick some sorry arses into the long grass. the optics section is a community with the whole BF community and long may it continue to be up there with other forums in discussing everything to do with optics, but it is not a sounding board for political bollox, or making absurd sweeping statements about how bad every other optic is EXCEPT the one YOU own is, and taking threads way of course until other members who have something to say on the subject simply don't bother.
Why the **** would you or anyone post anything in a thread they don't have anything sensible to say about, I find it incredible sometimes that a member will start posting negative rubbish simply because they feel as though they need to get involved??? I read some post's on here and think what utter claptrap but I move on because I would not bring anything sensible, readable, or interesting to the discussion, why is it that certain members of the optic section feel they have add their two cents worth of non related crap to upset everyone who has a genuine interest in the post? Beats me:C
Healthy debate and discussion is of course very welcome and to a degree we have to wade through some treacle occasionally to get to the sensible bits, BUT shouting loudest being rude, obnoxious and lets face it boringly repetitive is not going to get you any points, kudos,or a cigar on this site, its going to get you canned in the long run.
If you want to discuss politics, football, star trek, Dr Who, Miss world, the war in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc or what bins the taliban favour,then go to Ruffled feathers.
No one wants to lose members but if it is for the greater good for the majority, then unfortunately your going to wonder where certain individuals have gone.
Rant over
yours with love
Steve o
You volunteering?
crinklystarfish
Well-known member
To @MatthiasGr
This is not good advice.
A binocular's propensity to produce or resist glare is best ascertained when the subject being viewed is relatively dark, but in conditions where there are large quantities of diffuse light that do not form part of the actual image being viewed.
An example might be if the totality of the image being viewed is a tall dark hedgerow under a relatively brighter sky, especially if you are also looking over an open water body (i.e. a secondary source of non-image forming light).
Should you wish to understand the phenomenon in greater detail, I suggest you ignore anything written by @[email protected] - and search instead for the term 'Glare' and the member @henry link.
By the way, I think you would be highly delighted by either the NL10x32 or the SFL 10x40.
dorubird
The unskilled mechanic blames his tools!
Yes, exactly! As I pointed out in post no. 4, glare come when our pupil dilates over the exit pupil of the binoculars, and capture the parasitic reflections, which are present outside the exit pupils. Something possible only when the frame is relatively in the shade for dilates our pupils, and the light of the sky comes only from the side or above
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I have both NL 10x32 and SFL 10x40. Even though SFL is better in some ways, I prefer NL 10x32 due to its better fit in my small sized hands. Of course, SFL 10x40 is a bit better in low-light conditions. In my case, I have some other binoculars, including NL 8x42, for low-light use. If you find that the SFL 10x40 is a better option, there is an SFL 10x40 with perfect conditions for a considerably low price in the classified section (I am the one who selling the SFL 😁).
Since no one else seems to have done so, I will apologize to OP for the disruption to his thread, my part included.
Please keep us informed as you try out different choices.
We can offer opinions and experiences, but no one can predict what will suit you.
Good luck.
Please keep us informed as you try out different choices.
We can offer opinions and experiences, but no one can predict what will suit you.
Good luck.
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no one else? See #33
