Ringer in training (?!) (1 Viewer)

[Ade George]

Hi Hotspur
Just out of curiosity, who is your trainer?
Have you tried ringing at field five yet?
Ade

 

[Hotspur]

Trainewr is a guy called Graham Scott. Field 5 is now a no go (although it was tried over winter last year) as the course i do is no longer affiliated with Bishop Burton due to poor performance on their part and also we arent allowed up there without a member of staff present and thirdly they are sticking a whacking great road past alongside field five as access to the college is changed. Did have probable breeding Yellow Wags and Lesser Whitethroat there early last summer.

 

[John Morgan]

It was all spoilt by a fat arsed equestrain student, who on seeing the trapped 'baby jays' (blue tits!!!!!) cut about 20 birds out of the nets with a pair of scissors!!

In public places, always hang an informative note at each end of the net. But if there was time to cut out around 20 birds, then the net was not being visited/controlled/overlooked sufficiently frequently.

Or was he/she a trainee gamekeeper, cutting up the "baby jays" and not the net ||

 

[John Morgan]

The other day we had a 2nd cal male Sparrowhawk plus 1/4 of its breakfast of starling in the nets. Was extracted fine when my tutor gave me the bag and said here you go. Only my 7th bird ever processed! Was a bit big but managed to get it out the bag and into ringers grip but due to size i couldnt manouvre it well so i did what i could using a bird bag to cover its talons (worked a treat). I was having the wing length checked by my tutor so i didnt get it horribly wrong. He forgot about the bird bag on the feet and got an arm full of Sprawk talons. I spent the next 5 mins removing them from his arm!

I was shown a very useful method of raptor handling some years back by an American raptor specialist. The bird is placed in a close fitting tube, open at both ends, which serves as a bird bag. For ringing and tarsus measure the top half of the bird can be left in the tube, and if the tare of the tube is known it can be weighed too. Only the wing chord measurement needs the bird to be removed and this can be the last action before release.

It is necessary to carry a couple of different sizes of tube (perhaps three if you expect to get male Merlin as well as Sprawk and Kes, four if Buzzard is on the menu), for which I have adapted plastic containers. The originals were tin cans carefully smoothed at the ends and with two joined in the middle with parcel tape when I was first shown it.

 

[Hotspur]

Thats a pretty good idea- it was only really the wing length that was really tricky though! And it was the passing the bird person to person that caused the injury.

 

[John Morgan]

Thats a pretty good idea- it was only really the wing length that was really tricky though! And it was the passing the bird person to person that caused the injury.

Always hold the legs of raptors firmly by both legs above the "knee" (ie. ankle) when it's not in a bag or a tube. With this grip they seem loath to flap. The beaks, though used to rip flesh, don't seem to ever be used for defense, unlike shrikes, parrots, puffins and those pesky tits.

Tricks from the Americans, again. They seem to be ahead of Europe when it comes to banding raptors.

 

[swiss7]

I've banded plenty of Eastern Rosellas and don't think I ever bled once! Its just a matter of handling them right. Hold the head, give them something to chew on.. easy. We once had 5 in a net without any bags to put them in.. so I had to hold one whilst getting the other out which made things interesting! But they are very tame by nature, hence they aren't frightened at all of you.

Gang-gangs aren't allowed to be banded in Australia. I think its basically because they have such strong bills that they can pry the stainless bands apart. They are also not fairing too well in terms of population size. The black-cockatoos in general, I believe, had the strongest pound-per-square-inch biting power of any species (glossy blacks top the list).

John, whereabouts in the Languedoc are you? I travel to the south of France regulary, visiting my family in the Cevennes.

Cheers
Damien

 

[swiss7]

As a side note.. seabirds are much worse to band than any bush-birds I've come across. Although not frightened, the shearwaters, skuas & co have really sharp claws, and their long bills are very good at getting the back of your hand and giving some nice deep cuts. I've also had a Campbell's albatross biting across my hand, leaving two sharp deep cuts from its cutting edge on both the top and bottom of my hand. Luckily, Wandering albatross have much more bill to grap unto so I haven't had one get me yet.

Parrots don't tend to rip, so as long as you keep your hand in place, it will just hurt until you can pry the bill apart!

 

[Conorbirda2]

In public places, always hang an informative note at each end of the net. But if there was time to cut out around 20 birds, then the net was not being visited/controlled/overlooked sufficiently frequently.

Or was he/she a trainee gamekeeper, cutting up the "baby jays" and not the net ||

Thanks John, eggs thoroughly sucked! The 'twenty' was an over exageration and it isnt a public place. Ive been ringing for about 15yrs mate and i was with 3 other A/trainers at the time, so nets WERE checked regularly thanks.

 

[Black Wheatear]

As a side note.. seabirds are much worse to band than any bush-birds I've come across. Although not frightened, the shearwaters, skuas & co have really sharp claws, and their long bills are very good at getting the back of your hand and giving some nice deep cuts. I've also had a Campbell's albatross biting across my hand, leaving two sharp deep cuts from its cutting edge on both the top and bottom of my hand. Luckily, Wandering albatross have much more bill to grap unto so I haven't had one get me yet.

Parrots don't tend to rip, so as long as you keep your hand in place, it will just hurt until you can pry the bill apart!

Hi Damien,

I manage a few Southern Grey Shrikes here and I can tell you the 1st one was a real sadist! They already have a pinkish breast, but this one was released with Blood Red breast, namely mine! I have found the plastic tube for 'C' rings or '3' here in Spain to be a great snout coverer and protector!!!!

 

[John Morgan]

Thanks John, eggs thoroughly sucked! The 'twenty' was an over exageration and it isnt a public place. Ive been ringing for about 15yrs mate and i was with 3 other A/trainers at the time, so nets WERE checked regularly thanks.

In which case it seems that, like all of us, you may be too complacent about the security of your site and nets. Even with notices fixed, I've found people messing with birds in a net. Telling them that it is they who are breaking the law, not we, doesn't get through to such types.

I'm not sure what the answer is, except to watch nets from sufficiently afar to avoid disturbing them, and then almost continuously. That's what I do here in France, where my STOC (= CES) is on private land overlooked by a public road.

 

[KnockerNorton]

I agree. If nets are tampered with, then the ringer in charge isn't keeping a close enough eye on them. At the end of the day it's a ringer's responsibility to make sure they're safe and supervised at all times. If that's not possible then they shouln't be erected there.

 

[Conorbirda2]

I agree. If nets are tampered with, then the ringer in charge isn't keeping a close enough eye on them. At the end of the day it's a ringer's responsibility to make sure they're safe and supervised at all times. If that's not possible then they shouln't be erected there.

Just come across this reply. Just the sort of reply i have now come to expect from you Peocile. How big is the site you ring at? How many nets do you supervise AT ALL TIMES?? Do you sit and watch your net at all times? As i said before there were four ringers at the private site, nets were checked more than regularly. The incident happened within about 10 minutes of a net round. You would surely be putting birds off if you are close enough to monitor the nets at ALL times?! Bird Observatories ring birds all the time and theyre nets and heligolands are not supervised AT ALL TIMES due to the size of the site. So are you saying they should not erect nets there?

 

[Jos Stratford]

Just come across this reply. Just the sort of reply i have now come to expect from you Peocile. Pure ignorance once again.

Sorry, but I'd side with Poecile here - I use mistnets and can't see much to fault with the argument that a mistnet should basically be safe and supervised at all times. Why leave a net unsupervised in a position that can be tampered with? Not only could the net be damaged, but untrained persons are more likely to do harm to any birds they try to realease, etc. Watching the approaches to the nets is an effective solution in most cases.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Just come across this reply. Just the sort of reply i have now come to expect from you Peocile.

good, I like to be the harbinger of common sense.

How big is the site you ring at?

Just big enough for me to handle.

How many nets do you supervise AT ALL TIMES??

all of them, becasue if I am unable to supervise them then i don't erect them. Don't overstretch me sen and put the birds at risk, y'see. Like it says in the manual.

Do you sit and watch your net at all times?

You don't have to watch them to supervise them. But I do set them where I can see them, or control the approaches away from public areas, and nobody would have time to cut 20 birds out of them, that's for sure.

As i said before there were four ringers at the private site, nets were checked more than regularly.

but don't you see, it obviously wasn't regularly enough? Somebody had chance, and TIME, to cut out 20 BIRDS!!! (your words, my capitals). That, no matter what way you cut it, is slack.

The incident happened within about 10 minutes of a net round.

what does that mean? 10 mins after the last check (and how long between checks?)? Or nets were checked every 10 mins? Either way, it clearly wasn't enough.

You would surely be putting birds off if you are close enough to monitor the nets at ALL times?!

you don't have to be close. It all depends if you're supervising the nets or reading the paper. You can do either from 20m or 200m.

Bird Observatories ring birds all the time and theyre nets and heligolands are not supervised AT ALL TIMES due to the size of the site. So are you saying they should not erect nets there?

Heligolands are driven, so they don't need to be supervised as they're inactive until they're used. You know that. People also expect nets to be set up at observatories, and the signs usually say so. They also, from what I've seen, try to do it in out of the way areas. But if you're ringing near the public then you obviously take more care. By keeping the nets adequately supervised.

Look, I'm not bothered about a slanging match. No nets should be left long enough so that someone has time to cut out 20 birds. The ringer in charge is ultimately responsible for supervision, and they carry the can if the nets are unsupervised long enough for that to happen. It'd take a damn long time to cut out 20 birds. It's not about how often you check them. Every ringing site is different, and you cannot apply the same timings and regs to each. It's all about if your set-up is adequate. Net runs every 30 minsmight be adequate for a private estate, whereas every 5 might be more appropriate for a public park. The facts speak for themselves, and I'll say it again becasue I can't quite believe the slackness, if someone had time to cut out 20 birds from a mst net, then whatever regime you have, it is not adequate for that site imo.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Anyway, How's Hotspur getting on?

had any days like this! (ended up with 4mm of ice on the net)

 

[Jos Stratford]

had any days like this! (ended up with 4mm of ice on the net)

Hay Poecile,

Fancy popping out to ring any Marsh Tits this winter - though the nets don't get frosted (too dry), it certainly provides another reason for me to keep nets under constant observation. Working at temperatures way below freezing doesn't leave much time before fingers become rather numb and non-functional, hence never leave netts to accumulate birds ...half a dozen birds and and my fingers would be too cold to remove them

 

[Hotspur]

Been following this thread with interest (and trepidation) as i had 2 birds cut out of my nets...but the perpertrator was non-human and mostly mustelid. We closed the net after the second bird as it was evident the stoat was hiding in the undergrowth and not leaving the site when we drove it away. Not been out for ages due to the weather but i believe it is preparing for Tree Saprrow season next time with some woodland passerine ringing and box cleaning soon.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Been following this thread with interest (and trepidation) as i had 2 birds cut out of my nets...but the perpertrator was non-human and mostly mustelid. We closed the net after the second bird as it was evident the stoat was hiding in the undergrowth and not leaving the site when we drove it away. Not been out for ages due to the weather but i believe it is preparing for Tree Saprrow season next time with some woodland passerine ringing and box cleaning soon.

That's a bit different - we've all had a predator attack something in the net. It can be very hard to see when they have a go at the bottom shelf, and it can take literally seconds. Personally, I'd have closed it after the first bird, as they usually come back, just like they do when they empty a nestbox. Stoats aren't usually 6 ft tall and taking 20 birds at a time, so they're easier to miss

Jos, I've just got back from tit-hassling in Poland, so I've had as much cheap beer, cooked meats and numb fingers as I can handle for the minute, thanks! Where have you been anyway? Not see you pop up on the forum for bit.

 

[Hotspur]

Stoats aren't usually 6 ft tall and taking 20 birds at a time, so they're easier to miss

Ah, you say that but we later found out that this one was seen traversing the top shelf the week prior. Must have good balance and the net must have been VERY tight!