Status of Large Copper in the UK (1 Viewer)

[rmielcarek]

Thought the (small) colony of marsh frits at Sand Point in Somerset were an introduction? Rumour has it that these are doing OK, but maybe they haven't been going for long.

Sure you didn't mean Granville Frits at Sand Point?

These survived for a number of years but then seemed to disappear if only to miraculously reappear in good numbers after a gap of a few years - I wonder why?

Rich M

 

[Adey Baker]

Sure you didn't mean Granville Frits

fetch a cloth, Granville and change the R to L

 

[Ghostly Vision]

oops,

by "Successful", I meant that after a number of years the colony is flourishing. Wasn't condoning the laying out of the species - but it is a former site for Marsh frit, so isn't quite as bad, maybe, as some other intro's.

Neil, for how long do the colonies typically last before dying out again?

Sean

 

[Gary Francis]

Sure you didn't mean Granville Frits at Sand Point?
These survived for a number of years but then seemed to disappear if only to miraculously reappear in good numbers after a gap of a few years - I wonder why?
Rich M

Yep sorry, got my frits muddled, should have said glanvilles. Found out a bit more; Sand Point colony was introduced in 1983 by national trust, still going now. Conservation report also says that "introduced colonies often fail with 10 years" so looks like they are doing OK so far.

Know sandpoint well, used to fish there as a lad. Unfortunately it's quite small and the terrain is locally unique and isolated, so can't see how the frits would easily spread from there.

 

[NeilJones]

I have been hunting around for the book with the definitive information on one of the studies. I don't have the information on all the colonies.
My figures are based on a published study of 56 introductions which was published some time ago and chatting to Dr Martin Warren ( now Chief Exec of Butterfly Conservation) . I recall the figure of "over 80" in relation to failed introductions, with no long term successes, being used in a Butterfly Conservation Press Release some years ago. I believe it is based on international experience where as the 56 figure is a British only one.

As I said can't put my hand on the actual figures but I have previously made public postings on the internet when I did have the study in front of me. This is what I wrote at the time.
"Out of 56 attempts to establish new colonies of the Marsh Fritillary in this way, only 2 of them lasted more than 10 years and these have now died out."

My recollection is that most populations were shown to only last 3 or 4 years.

Part of the problem is that people reinforce these populations with extra stock. This happened with at least one of the longer lived introductions, I understand.

As to the Sand Point Glanvilles. I think reinforcement has taken place there. I also understand it is not the only place in that area where an introduction has been attempted.. Certainly there have been other introductions on the mainland which lasted a while before going extinct.

Glavilles are particularly well studied and it is very unlikely that a small population could survive in isolation for any extended period.

Incidentally do people know how the Glanville Fritillary got its name?

It is named after a certain Lady Glanville. She is famous for the fact that her will was contested by relatives after her death. They claimed that her interest in butterflies was proof of insanity!

 

[Phil Andrews]

Large Copper reported again this summer at Carr Vale

 

[aeshna5]

Large Copper reported again this summer at Carr Vale

Given the UK sub-species is considered extinct, I presume this is most likely to be an illegal release?

 

[Phil Andrews]

Given the UK sub-species is considered extinct, I presume this is most likely to be an illegal release?

Indeed - an "enthusiastic" Derbyshire breeder?

 

[HH75]

There have been unsuccessful attempts to introduce the species here in Ireland also. While it would have been lovely to have them around, the point is that they were never native, so it's probably just as well that they never became established.

Extinct in Ireland, September 26th, Large copper (Lycaena Dispar)

The first butterfly to feature on the melancholy month of Irish extinctions is the Large Copper Another permanent Irish extinction is the Straffan Butterfly Farm which is now permanently closed. Th…

seamussweeney.net

 

[Daniel Martin]

My own images taken on my phone from CV recently. Met the guy in question - very skilled and delighted in explaining these were Serbian stock and told me all about them. Claims they take to common dock so next season will get interesting. Not year to debate the rights and wrongs - if they simply disappear they were still nice to see.

 

[Jasonbirder]

Met the guy in question - very skilled and delighted

Not to be rude - he (and his ilk) are a f*cking menace
That's being polite...i'd certainly have like to have said "hello" (or something similar)
I don't live a million miles away and truth is - in Notts/Derbyshire its absolutely pointless being watching Butterflies anymore - Is that White Admiral/Silver-washed Fritillary etc real...or is it plastic...nobody knows because the water is so muddied.
Marbled Whites - which may have naturally expanded into Notts - will never do so know because of dodgy releases etc etc...
Being the Buttefly recorder is a thankless task (because of the releases) and yet what they accept is taken with a pinch of salt because they seem to err on the side of generosity (perhaps because there are so few people submitting records...its obvious when peoples records are rejected, which can cause animosity)

 

[Daniel Martin]

Not to be rude - he (and his ilk) are a f*cking menace
That's being polite...i'd certainly have like to have said "hello" (or something similar)
I don't live a million miles away and truth is - in Notts/Derbyshire its absolutely pointless being watching Butterflies anymore - Is that White Admiral/Silver-washed Fritillary etc real...or is it plastic...nobody knows because the water is so muddied.
Marbled Whites - which may have naturally expanded into Notts - will never do so know because of dodgy releases etc etc...
Being the Buttefly recorder is a thankless task (because of the releases) and yet what they accept is taken with a pinch of salt because they seem to err on the side of generosity (perhaps because there are so few people submitting records...its obvious when peoples records are rejected, which can cause animosity)

None taken! I didn't say I agree with it - in fact many of the rarer species in NE Derbyshire that I have seen over the past few years have his finger prints all over them! (historically anyway). To some extent any species that are former breeders may just be justifiable in a helping hand (Small Blue) but not new species without the correct food plants (eg Marsh Fruit & White Ad in one local wood). The County recorder is very unhappy obviously as the Purple Emperor is colonising naturally in the south for example but others are already here following releases.
My only point was that these guys are fascinating to listen to and highly skilled - it's a shame their enthusiasm and ability wasn't harnessed in some way.