The best binoculars (2 Viewers)

[has530]

A 2 mm EP is not good on regular binoculars, but with IS it actually works quite well because the IS keeps the EP centered over your retina and eye placement comfort is excellent. People don't believe that, who are used to traditional binoculars. IS breaks the rules you are used to.

I've seen you say this a few times over the last week or so but it's just not true. The IS corrects rotational vibrations along the 2 axis perpendicular to the optical axis. The main problem for pupil alignment is translational motion which cannot be accounted for by this type of system.

You may have come to this misconception due to the fact that most small EP optics people use are either compact binoculars with too small of eyecups that but be floated above the eye sockets or mounted high mag optics that you try not to touch the eyepiece as it will move the system. IS binos with good eyecups can sit in your eye socket so if your IPD is well set your head and field lenses move together ensuring proper pupil alignment.

Additionally pupil alignment is not the only disadvantage to a small exit pupil. For one example by utilizing a smaller part of your entrance pupil things such as eye floaters are far more obvious in the image. I am not trying to bash small EPs. I own and love the Canon 8x20s and 15x50s as well as a slew of compact binoculars and enjoy using them very much but they are not without optical compromises.

 

[has530]

You can come up with all kinds of theories that you want to

I would not be so quick to dismiss others as "coming up with all kinds of theories". If you read and tried to comprehend the knowledge bring shared on this forum you just might learn something and enjoy your binoculars even more.

Your hands move, causing the binoculars to move, causing the EP of the binoculars to move, which decenters it over your retina. The IS system stabilizes the EP of the binocular and keeps it centered over your retina. It is very easy to understand.

It is pretty easy to understand so I suggest you read my previous comment and attempt to understand. If you are having a hard time maybe this would be a good place to start. The stabilization mechanism corrects for the pitch and yaw rotational motion to keep the optical axis paralell to your eyes optical axis. Pupil misalignment is dominated by vertical and horizontal translational motion with respect to your eyeball. The stabilization does not work via "stabilizing the EP" whatever that means

 

[MiddleRiver]

Regardless of hyperbole, and leaving Dennis-pile-on behind, I have to say the notion of a useable 20x binos is intriguing to say the least! The Sig's look alien and machine-like in a weirdly seductive way (I say this as a lover of Retrovids... blasphemy, I know!).

I also think arguing about EP stabilization is moot. My question is whether it works as an overall package. I would not want to be birding forest for Warblers with the IS binos, but in settings (shorebirds?) where I might want a compact travel scope (currently my little Kowa 553), the binos could be a killer option.

 

[Maljunulo]

Figure out how to repeal the laws of physics, and get a decent-sized exit pupil at 20X and I might think about listening.

 

[Paultricounty]

You can come up with all kinds of theories that you want to, but I know from actual experience that an IS binocular is more forgiving for eye placement with a small EP than a regular binocular. Even small compact IS binoculars like the Canon 10x20 IS with smaller eye cups are much better for eye placement than a traditional 10x25 binocular like the Leica Trinovid which has approximately the same size eye cups.

I have never seen floaters in any small EP IS binoculars. Also, in a binocular like the Sig Sauer Zulu 6 HDX 20x42 the magnification makes up for the small EP and yields surprisingly good low light performance. I had the Sig Sauer 20x42 out tonite at dusk, and I was comparing to my Zeiss FL 8x42 which is a very bright binocular but even though the Zeiss was slightly brighter I could see more detail with the Sig because of the 20x magnification.

The IS system keeps the EP centered over your retina better than a traditional binocular because with a traditional binocular your hands are the main thing that is moving, which shifts the binocular's EP, causing the EP to be decentered over your retina. It is very easy to understand and you are overcomplicating it.

Just think about it for a while. Your hands move, causing the binoculars to move, causing the EP of the binoculars to move, which decenters it over your retina. The IS system stabilizes the EP of the binocular and keeps it centered over your retina. It is very easy to understand.

Dennis I actually think Has530 has more facts in his statement than your convoluted less than a theory theory. It doesn’t matter if it’s IS or non-IF, if you move your eye it’s not centered, period. I’ve tried over a half a dozen IS and currently own two, and it has more to do with the eyepiece design than your complicated thought process. Mustthink about it for a while and read up, you most likely will learn something. By the way, the FL wasn’t slightly brighter with its AK prisms , 90+% transmission and 5.25 exit pupal , it was and is much brighter . If you couldn’t see that , then the issue is with your eyes and what ever you say can’t really be taken seriously anymore. No disrespect Master PO.

 

[Paultricounty]

I would not be so quick to dismiss others as "coming up with all kinds of theories". If you read and tried to comprehend the knowledge bring shared on this forum you just might learn something and enjoy your binoculars even more.

No he won’t, he will continue to pick the part he wants to extol so after he’s done trying out something of interest to him he can sell it and point to all the extraordinary comments are on Birdforum discussions, of course he’ll point to his own posts. I will say in between the majority of gibberish , he does add some interesting commentary.

It is pretty easy to understand so I suggest you read my previous comment and attempt to understand. If you are having a hard time maybe this would be a good place to start. The stabilization mechanism corrects for the pitch and yaw rotational motion to keep the optical axis paralell to your eyes iptical axis. Pupil misalignment is dominated by vertical and horizontal translational motion with respect to your eyeball. The stabilization does not work via "stabilizing the EP" whatever that means

 

[JOC1]

Regardless of hyperbole, and leaving Dennis-pile-on behind, I have to say the notion of a useable 20x binos is intriguing to say the least! The Sig's look alien and machine-like in a weirdly seductive way (I say this as a lover of Retrovids... blasphemy, I know!).

I also think arguing about EP stabilization is moot. My question is whether it works as an overall package. I would not want to be birding forest for Warblers with the IS binos, but in settings (shorebirds?) where I might want a compact travel scope (currently my little Kowa 553), the binos could be a killer option.

agreed, If it weren’t for the 42 objective lens, I would seriously consider them. I’m staying with the 15x50 for that reason, but Sig were to come out with A larger objective lens model (>=50), I would definitely try it out

 

[Paultricounty]

Regardless of hyperbole, and leaving Dennis-pile-on behind, I have to say the notion of a useable 20x binos is intriguing to say the least! The Sig's look alien and machine-like in a weirdly seductive way (I say this as a lover of Retrovids... blasphemy, I know!).

Hyperbole is Dennis‘s middle name, I know some of us can’t leave the Dennis pile on behind 😉.
I’m with you, they do like alien, but alien and seductive doesn’t work for me in the same sentence, Captain Kirk may disagree. Loving retrovids is not blasphemy, you’re part of the exclusive club of hire enlightenment.

I am intrigued as well by the Sigs and I’m going to try the 16 x 42, more for the size and weight, and hoping the optics might be closer to the Canon 10x42L. But I am not expecting a huge difference in the negatives that I experienced in the Canon 50’s and the Fugi 14x40.

Paul

I also think arguing about EP stabilization is moot. My question is whether it works as an overall package. I would not want to be birding forest for Warblers with the IS binos, but in settings (shorebirds?) where I might want a compact travel scope (currently my little Kowa 553), the binos could be a killer option.

 

[has530]

in settings (shorebirds?) where I might want a compact travel scope (currently my little Kowa 553), the binos could be a killer option.

This is exactly what I've used my Canon 15x50s for and it is really nice. Like having a compact scope but without having to lug a tripod around!

 

[MiddleRiver]

This is exactly what I've used my Canon 15x50s for and it is really nice. Like having a compact scope but without having to lug a tripod around!

It's funny, because in cameras, I would never want to go back to non-IS technology (yeah I own Retros and until recently owned a 8x10 view camera, so I don't say that lightly!). There are places for old tech and places for new-tech. And often - in art surely - the process IS the product. But if I'm out trying to get a Blue-grey Gnatcatcher to stand still for a portrait, I'm ever-grateful for IS cameras.
In fact, IS would address my frustration with a 'lightweight, trekking' scope setup. The 553 is a lightweight champ, but with an equallly lightweight tripod, viewing conditions in some situation (windy, coastal...) are often challenging, if not outright impossible.

 

[Trinovid]

…in cameras, I would never want to go back to non-IS technology… There are places for old tech and places for new-tech. And often - in art surely - the process IS the product.

Yes indeed!
Sums up my feeling better than I could myself actually.

 

[Granpoli]

I have the new Sig Sauer Zulu 6 HDX 20x42, and you can hold it in one hand or any angle you want, and you don't have to worry about handshake because it has two IS modes. A scan mode for scanning and a target mode for when you are zeroing in on a stationary target. In target mode even at 20x it is rock solid steady even if you are moving your hands around. It is amazing and just like having a portable spotting scope.

The Sig Sauer Zulu 6 HDX 20x42 has the same AFOV as the Canon IS 18x50 at 65 degrees, and it is 1/2 the weight at 21 oz. and much smaller and more compact. The relatively small 2.1 mm EP is not an issue for eye placement because the IS system keeps the EP centered over your retina and in daylight they are very bright and surprisingly bright in low light because the high magnification helps you see detail in low light and their Twilight Factor is actually quite high.

In contrast to the Canons which have old fashioned rubber eye cups, they have fully adjustable comfortable eye cups and I experienced no black-outs with them either. CA is better controlled with the Sigs than in the Canons also because of the high-end ED glass they use. Also, the Canon IS 18x50 is just water-resistant, whereas, the Sig Sauer Zulu6 HDX is IPX7 waterproof meaning you can totally submerge it underwater without a problem. IMO, the Sigs have left the Canon IS in the dust in just about every area, and they could be the IS binocular you have dreaming about. Also, pricewise the Sig 20x42 is about $1100 and the Canon 18x50 is $1500, so they are way less expensive also.

For curiosity, you've used this 20x42 IS for casual astronomy?
If so, how is?
Thanks
GP

 

[Maljunulo]

Don't be seduced by magnification.

There are many more factors that make a binocular "better" than another.

There is no "best", it is too individual.

The "top three" are (alphabetically) Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss with endless, and sometimes heated, discussion of which one is best, and even if.