Twitching and your carbon footprint. (1 Viewer)

[DunnoKev]

And if we're thinking about carbon footprints as a whole, turn those bloomin' lights out Mr. Mannering!

Last week when those power cuts hit the UK, our beleagured National Grid was busy looking for a paddle to get it out that particular creek. We are so short of generating capabilities we had to fire up the one remaining UK oil-fired power station to get by. It only runs in emergencies nowadays. Average cost of generation at gas/coal fired stations is about £30 per megawatt hour - the oil-fired station was costing £930 per megawatt hour, but heck, worth it to avoid closing down the country. We are living well beyond our means people..

Oh, and a spooky PS - my power sources also tell me that Saudi Arabi (y'know, that place with all the oil) has just signed up for it's first coal-fired power station.. hmm.. what do they know that we don't???

DunnoKev
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Newsflash - Rare petrel faces extinction after oil spill off Suppressex coast..

 

[Boomer]

Oh, and a spooky PS - my power sources also tell me that Saudi Arabi (y'know, that place with all the oil) has just signed up for it's first coal-fired power station.. hmm.. what do they know that we don't???

DunnoKev

DunnoKev, LOL.
Thanks for the info. They know that it is far cheaper (based on the value of the commodity used) for them to generate electric power from coal, than to produce same from oil...AND they can SELL that oil that they don't use (producing elec.) to oil-thirsty nations. It is rather ironic, though. Best Wishes. :t:

Ron

 

[DunnoKev]

Cheers Boomer! having recently spent quite some time in Qatar (huge gasfields) it does make (economic) sense when you think about it.

And why shouldn't they cash in? When you see the huge developments springing up from the oil dollars, and you realise every town is getting a first class school, hospital, et al., you can't blame 'em. It's also nice when they sign up to bodies such as BirdLife and donate a million dollars http://www.birdlife.org/news/news/2008/05/qatar_money.html

I did pass one queue of over 800 lorries waiting patiently to collect "building aggregate" from the one dune they're allowed to use, so I s'pose we could get our own back by starting to sell sand to 'em??

DunnoKev
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"Drive away a new Ford Auklet today, from Suppressex motors. Runs on oiled seabirds - over 95 miles per guillemot and plenty of cheap fuel washed up on a beach near you.."

 

[Farnboro John]

I did pass one queue of over 800 lorries waiting patiently to collect "building aggregate" from the one dune they're allowed to use, so I s'pose we could get our own back by starting to sell sand to 'em??

DunnoKev
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I hear there's a load just North of Aberdeen going begging!

John

 

[POP]

I did pass one queue of over 800 lorries waiting patiently to collect "building aggregate" from the one dune they're allowed to use, so I s'pose we could get our own back by starting to sell sand to 'em??

DunnoKev
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I hear there's a load just North of Aberdeen going begging!

John

I think you've "Trumped" him there.

POP

 

[tittletattler]

However, it will level off at some stage. Salaries will climb, fuel accordingly will become relatively less. Regardless, we'll still fill the tank.

Maybe not. The Bank of England's remit is to keep inflation on a short lead and they will quickly hike up interest rates to stop inflation. Could happen again soon! The reason? Wage inflation. If inflation goes up, people want more pay to cover the increased cost of living. If wages go up too much companies make people redundant and go to aother Country with cheaper labour. Unemployment goes up, GDP goes down and the Country is then in recession. The British Government (Labour, Tory whatever) will always make controlling inflation its No1 priority for this reason. Sorry if this is an oversimplification.

It is more likely that people will use their cars less as has happened last month when petrol use dropped by 20%.

I have agreed with pretty much everything you've said, Jos. You could still be right on this point, of couse, but I think otherwise. Macroeconomics, eh?

 

[Jos Stratford]

You could still be right on this point, of course, but I think otherwise.

Naturally I could be wrong too

 

[ovenbird43]

Hmm, a starving student, yet still one wealthy enough to own a car. Nice.

Notice the quotes, obviously I'm not literally starving. It's just a saying we have here. The car costs me very little, just insurance and gas, and the infrequent minor repairs, most months I spend more on food than I spend on my car. The point I was TRYING to make is that, although I live comfortably enough (as I stated!), if I were to need my car every day I would not be able to keep up with the rising prices. Fortunately, I dont' NEED to drive my car to get to campus, grocery store, etc. But many here either truly DO need it (thank to sprawling US suburbia), or just think they can't do without their cars, and on a similar salary as mine will not be able to afford it.

Not that it's entirely a disaster, most people here can get away with using their cars far less, and rising prices will encourage them to do so. I hope that this will stimulate a change in development strategies in the US, away from the "wal-mart and suburbia" structures back to smaller-scale, more compact cities, where people can easily travel without their cars.

I admit I know very little about ecomonics, and wasn't alive in the 70s. However, I still have a hard time believing that salaries will keep up with gas prices. Maybe in some areas, and for the relatively short term. While I don't belive oil reserve will run out in our own lifetimes, some day they WILL, and unless we significantly decrease our demand, the price is going to keep increasing, and someday will outstrip the average person's salary. While we may not be on the verge of disaster, this is just the beginning of a long trend.

 

[Sancho]

............... While I don't belive oil reserve will run out in our own lifetimes, some day they WILL.

Yeah, maybe you're right, and my Imminent Doomsday stuff is completely wrong. Actually I know nothing about oil (surprise, surprise). Perhaps the current rises are due to purely speculative causes, and there's enough gas in the planet's tanks to keep us going another couple of centuries. As a child of the sixties, I'm just used to being constantly terrified of global disaster....first the Wrath of God, then Nuclear War, then Aids, then BSE, then the Millenium Bug, then Meteor Strike, then Global Warming, then......no wonder we're a generation of neurotics.

 

[MalR]

Yeah, maybe you're right, and my Imminent Doomsday stuff is completely wrong. Actually I know nothing about oil (surprise, surprise). Perhaps the current rises are due to purely speculative causes, and there's enough gas in the planet's tanks to keep us going another couple of centuries. As a child of the sixties, I'm just used to being constantly terrified of global disaster....first the Wrath of God, then Nuclear War, then Aids, then BSE, then the Millenium Bug, then Meteor Strike, then Global Warming, then......no wonder we're a generation of neurotics.

Don't forget Sars and Bird Flu. Actually, I work with a guy who is heavily into all these prophets of doom predictions. Apparently, the world is due to end in 2012. I think he read it in the Daily Mail. So, we won't have to worry about all this stuff much longer. And, if there are certain birds you still haven't seen, well, get out there and seem them, and stuff your carbon footprint

On a more serious note, the late, great Gerald Durrell said that the human race was like a man sawing through the tree branch he was sitting on. He was fine for a while, but by the time he thought "uh, oh ..." it was too late. Only question is WHEN is that time?

Malcolm

 

[Terry O'Nolley]

I personally am not 100% sure that global warming is man made, but for those who do, do you think that all of the miles driven and flown by twitchers is actually helping to damage the very thing that they love?

If you are asking whether the volume of vehicle traffic at a specific birding location has an impact on that sight then you could analyze data the correlates nesting frequency by species with the amount of automobile traffic at the locale (but without a control environment there could be no way of establishing that the vehicle traffic was the cause of any seemingly related trend).

If you are asking about global climate then I would think that the net result of emissions specifically caused by birders twitching would be minimal compared to the total global emissions.

I know that every little bit counts (in the sense that if it didn't count then you could raise that side of the equation to infinity without affecting the outcome), but the ratio of emissions related to twitching versus the total global emissions is infinitesimally small.

 

[Terry O'Nolley]

how much do people think the cost of petrol will rise to before it starts falling/stays put?

Personally, I think oil prices will continue to rise as long as oil futures speculators continue to set the price of crude oil.

Simple supply and demand has broken down in regards to oil.

There are no oil consumer nations that were unable to buy as much oil as they wanted. Therefore, demand should not have affected prices.

When you have uber-wealthy corporations setting futures prices then there is no way oil will sell for a lower price point than what the futures traders have already agreed to pay.

If I were to spend $100,000,000.00 on buying oil in August at $155 a barrel then you had better believe that oil will cost at least that much. Why would OPEC sell for less when they already have their entire allotment pre-sold at $155 a barrel?

You see, oil is a finite resource so OPEC has nothing to gain and everything to lose by raising production and lowering prices.

This is a perfect example of economic extortion.

If a person has 100 pennies and everyone wants to buy them and is willing to pay whatever it takes to get them then why would the owner of the pennies sell them in groups of 10 for 25 cents each when he could sell them one at a time for 5 cents each?

Why would OPEC open their spigots so that they can deplete their resources faster for less money when they can allow their resources to trickle out and make more money for selling less product?

I am ashamed at human civilization for not coming up with and universally adopting something to replace the century old technology of the internal combustion engine.

While it is a miserable fact to state, our nation's security is tied to the availability of crude oil.

And when national security is at stake, the government should take steps to help insure that our nation can continue to function.

OUTLAW OIL FUTURES TRADING NOW

 

[Farnboro John]

While it is a miserable fact to state, our nation's security is tied to the availability of crude oil.

And when national security is at stake, the government should take steps to help insure that our nation can continue to function.

OUTLAW OIL FUTURES TRADING NOW

What an asinine remark. You can't outlaw oil futures trading, you don't own the world. You'll just have to put up with non-Americans doing things a non-American way
John

 

[ColonelBlimp]

the government should take steps to help insure that our nation can continue to function

I think it already has-a smallish Middle Eastern country would testify to that...

 

[DunnoKev]

I think it already has-a smallish Middle Eastern country would testify to that...

And there is considerable evidence that the largest untapped oil reserves are under the seas around the Falkland Isles. They just haven't sorted out how they're going to get at it yet.

Honestly Colonel, you'd've thought the top brass would have explained to you exactly why we had that slight altercation with the previous landlords down there a couple of decades back?

And to think they made the world believe it was about the rights of a few hundred islanders, several hundred hundred sheep and a few not-yet-oiled-but-soon-going-to-be penguins? Oh how they laffed..

DunnoKev
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"Potential oilfield development threatens Dimsmere RSBP reserve, Suppressex. U.K.'s largest colony of coffeeshop birders under threat.."

 

[POP]

I personally believe there is plenty of oil around and if the price continues to escalate,and country's go into recession (as I believe we are moving into) then there will be even more oil around.In my humble opinion demand has not created the price,but speculators have,and the big commodities groups keep talking the price up.Blame the weak dollar,the prime mortgage scandals moneys moving from currencies to commodities.Like the dot com bubble that burst so will the oil bubble,the trick is knowing when.
To get back to the original point there is for sure a lot more chasing about for birds now,than we were doing it in the early 70s.

POP

 

[dantheman]

And to think they made the world believe it was about the rights of a few hundred islanders, several hundred hundred sheep and a few not-yet-oiled-but-soon-going-to-be penguins? Oh how they laffed..

DunnoKev
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"Potential oilfield development threatens Dimsmere RSBP reserve, Suppressex. U.K.'s largest colony of coffeeshop birders under threat.."

You've provided me with the inspiration (don't necessarily have to feel proud about it) to come up with an alternative supply of oil to supply all our present and future domestic UK oil and petroleum needs - - - Fulmars.

OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO START A MASSIVE BREEDING PROGRAM RIGHT NOW!!

We can't let these other countries stop us living the lifestyle we feel we have the right to become accustomed to.

We have the Cliffs, We have the Fulmars, We just need to start a captive breeding program by fencing off large areas of our coastal heritage (Maybe we could also 'borrow' some of the closest bits of France's too . . .) and introducing lorry loads of chickens into all relevant areas to brood all the Fulmar eggs we can lay our hands on (A hybridisation program would be even better) :t:

We can then employ the long term benefit fraud disability sorts and teenage-don't-want-to-workers (maybe economic migrants to these shores as well, in fact, whomsoever the Daily Mail deems fit to carry out the slightly unpleasant task of milking the resulting offspring for their rich and oily secretions B (It's nasty and smelly, but hey, someone's got to do it . . . )).

Sorted

 

[rob stoff]

You've provided me with the inspiration (don't necessarily have to feel proud about it) to come up with an alternative supply of oil to supply all our present and future domestic UK oil and petroleum needs - - - Fulmars.

OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO START A MASSIVE BREEDING PROGRAM RIGHT NOW!!

We can't let these other countries stop us living the lifestyle we feel we have the right to become accustomed to.

We have the Cliffs, We have the Fulmars, We just need to start a captive breeding program by fencing off large areas of our coastal heritage (Maybe we could also 'borrow' some of the closest bits of France's too . . .) and introducing lorry loads of chickens into all relevant areas to brood all the Fulmar eggs we can lay our hands on (A hybridisation program would be even better) :t:

We can then employ the long term benefit fraud disability sorts and teenage-don't-want-to-workers (maybe economic migrants to these shores as well, in fact, whomsoever the Daily Mail deems fit to carry out the slightly unpleasant task of milking the resulting offspring for their rich and oily secretions B (It's nasty and smelly, but hey, someone's got to do it . . . )).

Sorted

have we got enough fish left to feed them?

Rob

 

[dantheman]

have we got enough fish left to feed them?

Rob

Valid point - no probably not.

Maybe we could refer to the aforementioned tabloid press to find the most appropriate demographic group to experiment with alternative fulmar food sources to wean them onto to. It'd also be making a good start on the overpopulation issue as well . . .

 

[Farnboro John]

To get back to the original point there is for sure a lot more chasing about for birds now,than we were doing it in the early 70s.

POP

Yes, but the strike rate is immeasurably higher thanks to pager and other rare bird news services. When I think of some of the information I used to twitch on, weeks old, I shudder!

Reduced dips = reduced carbon footprint = we are better twitchers environmentally than we used to be.

John