Two people break 10,000 species, and on the same day? Can it be? (2 Viewers)

[Tiraya]

I've been frequently surprised as to how small a portion of birders seem to be well-versed and interested in thorough identification, as well as privy to vocalizations for use in said identification. I don't consider myself a very top level birder, but I can't imagine being in the hobby without at least doing some due diligence on learning field marks, and learning songs and calls where possible.

Even more puzzling is when I encounter these kinds of folks in far-flung places where they clearly spent a lot of time and money to visit said location, but yet did very little to no research on their target birds, and thought they could just "wing it" without any proper intel or knowledge of the identification.

 

[Andy Adcock]

There was a good bit about him in the eBird/Macaulay Library celebration of the 2 millionth recording uploaded.

Webinar recording.

People such as this are akin to Beethoven, it's literally a gift which, given all the work and dedication you like, 99.9%, of us are not capable of this level of retention and recall. I referred to Paul Holt as a birding savant, that's pretty much what people like this, are.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I've been frequently surprised as to how small a portion of birders seem to be well-versed and interested in thorough identification, as well as privy to vocalizations for use in said identification. I don't consider myself a very top level birder, but I can't imagine being in the hobby without at least doing some due diligence on learning field marks, and learning songs and calls where possible.

Even more puzzling is when I encounter these kinds of folks in far-flung places where they clearly spent a lot of time and money to visit said location, but yet did very little to no research on their target birds, and thought they could just "wing it" without any proper intel or knowledge of the identification.

Neither do I but it makes you normal, relatively

PM me with your plans

 

[Mysticete]

I've been frequently surprised as to how small a portion of birders seem to be well-versed and interested in thorough identification, as well as privy to vocalizations for use in said identification. I don't consider myself a very top level birder, but I can't imagine being in the hobby without at least doing some due diligence on learning field marks, and learning songs and calls where possible.

Even more puzzling is when I encounter these kinds of folks in far-flung places where they clearly spent a lot of time and money to visit said location, but yet did very little to no research on their target birds, and thought they could just "wing it" without any proper intel or knowledge of the identification.

While I am the type of person who preps at least a year before hand, I can understand people who don't. Some folks have very busy and hectic lives, and may also be juggling family and personal health as well as other hobbies. As long as those folks have fun, and their lack of knowledge doesn't lesson other people's enjoyment (say they are on a tour), I don't see the big deal.

 

[Tiraya]

While I am the type of person who preps at least a year before hand, I can understand people who don't. Some folks have very busy and hectic lives, and may also be juggling family and personal health as well as other hobbies. As long as those folks have fun, and their lack of knowledge doesn't lesson other people's enjoyment (say they are on a tour), I don't see the big deal.

I would agree BUT it clearly frustrates and becomes a source of "I wish it went better" for many of these groups. Whether they are having fun is debatable in those cases. I'm not talking about the folks who actively enjoy taking things more relaxed, which constitutes a large percentage of birders in general and there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I mean specifically the focused groups or individuals who lose a bit of their sanity anytime they "miss" something, to which the lack of research and effort to plan things becomes a hindrance to said enjoyment.

Generally, those are the ONLY kind of birders that will want to visit the most obscure and out there places, which is why it was part of my example above.

 

[Mysticete]

I would agree BUT it clearly frustrates and becomes a source of "I wish it went better" for many of these groups. Whether they are having fun is debatable in those cases. I'm not talking about the folks who actively enjoy taking things more relaxed, which constitutes a large percentage of birders in general and there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I mean specifically the focused groups or individuals who lose a bit of their sanity anytime they "miss" something, to which the lack of research and effort to plan things becomes a hindrance to said enjoyment.

Generally, those are the ONLY kind of birders that will want to visit the most obscure and out there places, which is why it was part of my example above.

well I mean some of it is also down to skill level.

I suck at bird calls. Just am absolutely horrible. I know only a small number of local calls, so I don't really even try to memorize bird call from other areas (not helping is I don't think my hearing is exactly the best anyway). So even though I am one of those hardcore birders with specific targets...yeah I definitely will not be prepared to ID/find things by sound.

 

[Tiraya]

well I mean some of it is also down to skill level.

I suck at bird calls. Just am absolutely horrible. I know only a small number of local calls, so I don't really even try to memorize bird call from other areas (not helping is I don't think my hearing is exactly the best anyway). So even though I am one of those hardcore birders with specific targets...yeah I definitely will not be prepared to ID/find things by sound.

I'd argue it comes down to a willingness to be aware and willing to learn more than skill, in this scenario. There's a difference to me between someone who has trouble learning, versus someone who just shrugs and doesn't care. But that would probably be semantics. I've already said my piece, probably phrased in the worst way possible, now permanently commemorated on the internet. I deserve all repercussions of my poor wording and possibly poor opinions

 

[Peter Kaestner]

To the "best birder" discussion: in the normal field, it's about the hearing of calls. I will always be beaten fair and square by all the people who are not tone deaf - I can spend days and days browsing sites, yet I won't be the rarity finder, because most are first found on calls (at least where I am birding usually) and I just suck at that, years after years, no amount of listening seems to be helpful.

But I don't think this really applies in world birding. How many of these big listers are really finding the birds themselves and how many are just paying guides to find them? Show me a birder who does 10000 without any guides and then we can talk, but the length of the list really is down to money when you can pay people to do it for you and the only thing you need is to survive being there.

You are correct that most world birders pay for their birds. On my list over 85% I found myself. I was a U.S. Diplomat and lived in 12 countries around the world. It is only in my last years that I have taken tours and hired guides. Indeed, when I was just birding in Taiwan, I did not have any guides helping me.

 

[Peter Kaestner]

You are correct that most world birders pay for their birds. On my list over 85% I found myself. I was a U.S. Diplomat and lived in 12 countries around the world. It is only in my last years that I have taken tours and hired guides. Indeed, when I was just birding in Taiwan, I did not have any guides helping me.

I also work as a tour leader for Rockjumper Birding Tours. Apropos the "best birder" discussion, the American Birding Association says that there are "a million ways to bird." To me that means that there are a million ways to be the best. Everyone is different and everyone's enjoyment of birding is just fine for them.

 

[opisska]

Finding 8500 birds yourself, that's a truly impressive feat!

 

[Andy Adcock]

You are correct that most world birders pay for their birds. On my list over 85% I found myself. I was a U.S. Diplomat and lived in 12 countries around the world. It is only in my last years that I have taken tours and hired guides. Indeed, when I was just birding in Taiwan, I did not have any guides helping me.

In fairness and with respect Peter, Taiwan is one of the easiest places to see all the endemics without using a guide, we didn't use one either.

 

[temmie]

Congrats, Peter!
You are a true ambassador for world birding (pun intended), and my profile pic is partly inspired by your trip report / sighting of Western Tragopan, which made me more confident that the beast could be seen and I should go for it.

With regards to the discussion who is the best birder, as Peter says diplomatically (again, pun intended!), birding is a very friendly competition and participating is more important than 'winning', as everyone gets something different out of it.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I would agree BUT it clearly frustrates and becomes a source of "I wish it went better" for many of these groups. Whether they are having fun is debatable in those cases. I'm not talking about the folks who actively enjoy taking things more relaxed, which constitutes a large percentage of birders in general and there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I mean specifically the focused groups or individuals who lose a bit of their sanity anytime they "miss" something, to which the lack of research and effort to plan things becomes a hindrance to said enjoyment.

Generally, those are the ONLY kind of birders that will want to visit the most obscure and out there places, which is why it was part of my example above.

Like the Sundarbans you mean

 

[KeriBirder]

Someone needs to look and see if he has the Ivory-billed Woodpecker on his list. /s

 

[Phil Andrews]

Peter Kaestner Breaks the 10,000 Bird Barrier! - American Birding Association

On February 9, 2024, longtime ABA member and frequent Birding magazine contributor Peter Kaestner reached 10,000 birds on his life list. The ABA heartily congratulates Peter on this momentous achievement.

www.aba.org

 

[Andy Adcock]

I wonder if my mate Jon Hornbuckle would have stayed the pace and pipped Peter to the title had he not died a couple of years ago. I don't know what his list was at when he died?

Tried to check Jon's list on Surfbirds but I cannot access anything, no photos, nothing and haven't been able to for ages?

 

[Phil Andrews]

Around the 9,600 mark.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Around the 9,600 mark.

Would be interesting to know what Peter's list was at when Jon died, how far behind was he?

 

[Selsey Birder]

I wonder if my mate Jon Hornbuckle would have stayed the pace and pipped Peter to the title had he not died a couple of years ago. I don't know what his list was at when he died?

Tried to check Jon's list on Surfbirds but I cannot access anything, no photos, nothing and haven't been able to for ages?

According to his BUBO list 9,246, but unsure as to when he last updated.

Ian

 

[Jacana]

According to his BUBO list 9,246, but unsure as to when he last updated.

Ian

Yep, his list on Bubo is here: Jon Hornbuckle: World Life List | BUBO Listing

Though note that there have been several taxonomic change since he passed and when a species is split, your list total goes down until you make the edits. A quick look through his "targets", which would be a good proxy for what he probably saw, and you can see at least 100 additional species that should probably be added to his total.