-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Two people break 10,000 species, and on the same day? Can it be? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter pbjosh
- Start date
Welsh Peregrine
Well-known member
Anyone ticked a lifer with a thermal imager only?
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
Spot on Mark.
……………
Mind you, some people do keep a ‘Seen on TV list ‘ (allegedly
).
Lerxst
Well-known member
Went to the California coast one spring, hoping to get Pacific Loons. I had bins, Nikon P900 camera, and my wife had her bins. No scope.
Lots of birds way out there, and if you looked far enough out, there were the occasional north-flying, low-to-the-water, loon-like birds. But too hard in the bins to get all the field marks. Glimpses were so short and low quality. I could just get the jizz. Also, it was impossible to actively compare and discuss the same bird with my wife, due to the dynamic nature of the views and lack of landmarks. Kept hoping for some to come closer, and they never did.
I never saw enough in the bins to feel 100%. Maybe 90%. Not 100%.
However, I also would use maximum zoom on the camera and take pictures of the horizon line. I took hundreds of photos. Too bright to really see anything through the viewfinder, so I just let the autofocus work and snapped away.
That night I reviewed the images on my laptop and found plenty of examples of Pacific Loon. Easily identifiable from the pictures, even if the quality was poor.
You better believe I ticked that species. I saw it and I am 100% certain of what it was, even though those two requirements were not met simultaneously.
If I did not have the camera and the photos I would not have counted it.
The only things that I will not allow the tech to do are (a) capture a signal remotely or (b) make the species discernment via some trained model. In other words, I have to be out there in the field with the bird, and I have to do the ID work myself, be it visual or audible or both.
Lots of birds way out there, and if you looked far enough out, there were the occasional north-flying, low-to-the-water, loon-like birds. But too hard in the bins to get all the field marks. Glimpses were so short and low quality. I could just get the jizz. Also, it was impossible to actively compare and discuss the same bird with my wife, due to the dynamic nature of the views and lack of landmarks. Kept hoping for some to come closer, and they never did.
I never saw enough in the bins to feel 100%. Maybe 90%. Not 100%.
However, I also would use maximum zoom on the camera and take pictures of the horizon line. I took hundreds of photos. Too bright to really see anything through the viewfinder, so I just let the autofocus work and snapped away.
That night I reviewed the images on my laptop and found plenty of examples of Pacific Loon. Easily identifiable from the pictures, even if the quality was poor.
You better believe I ticked that species. I saw it and I am 100% certain of what it was, even though those two requirements were not met simultaneously.
If I did not have the camera and the photos I would not have counted it.
The only things that I will not allow the tech to do are (a) capture a signal remotely or (b) make the species discernment via some trained model. In other words, I have to be out there in the field with the bird, and I have to do the ID work myself, be it visual or audible or both.
dantheman
Bah humbug
Was going to say earlier that if you saw the bird(s) and then used technology to confirm an id some (me included) would say that's fine.
(On the basis that you didn't happen to photograph also, say a bunch of Common Loons, so that you couldn't say which you'd seen, or tick something else that popped up in the photos but that you didn't notice at the time, like say a Xantu's Murrelet ... )
;-)
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
For some species, like say some Diving-Petrels, or some Prions, where the ID criteria (and species limits) are still so up in the air, you can have a Bayesian tick... given the presumed world population breeds on this island, if you see thousands or 10's of thousands or 100's of thousands, can you overcome the odds of not having seen the target species sufficiently well to sleep at night?
Re: a thermal tick, I've not had one yet but I don't think I'd be satisisfied, I would leave it on the list of things I'd like to see better for certain, just like heard birds. I really don't even care about the idea of a "tick" or not - everything goes in eBird and eBird spits out a number. But ultimately, I just want to be satisfied, personally, with my experience with a species.
Re: a thermal tick, I've not had one yet but I don't think I'd be satisisfied, I would leave it on the list of things I'd like to see better for certain, just like heard birds. I really don't even care about the idea of a "tick" or not - everything goes in eBird and eBird spits out a number. But ultimately, I just want to be satisfied, personally, with my experience with a species.
Steve Babbs
Well-known member
Yep my logic completely.
Ilya Maclean
charlatan
I find some birds dull as dishwater to look at, but quite like listening to them. Hearing a landscape full of nighttime singing Blyth’s Reed Warblers in Finland was, for me, a lot more memorable than bumping into one on a grotty day in September on Shetland. Each to their own really. I don’t see the problem with folk counting HO records if that is what they want to do.
Lerxst
Well-known member
Indeed. There isn't a problem. Hearing is no less valuable than vision. And there are a ton of birds that I would choose hearing over seeing any day.
Bewick
Connoisseur of WTL
Had the very same experience but with a short-toed snake eagle. I suspected that it was a short toed eagle but it was just slightly too high for my bin's. Ran inside grabbed my camera and got a few dozen images of the bird. Imported the images to my computer cropped them and confirmed the ID. Awesome garden tick and happened only a few days after getting my lifer booted eagle from the garden. Would get a slightly closer one the next day but always considered the first bird my lifer.
Attachments
jurek
Well-known member
There is no problem in birders counting anything. I know of a foreign birder group who counted a pile of dung left by a Dwarf Cassowary in New Guinea. Unequivocal proof of the cassowary presence.
Only heard-only birders would still fall behind if a person actually watching birds adds own heard-only birds for a rightful comparison.
Only heard-only birders would still fall behind if a person actually watching birds adds own heard-only birds for a rightful comparison.
Paul Chapman
Well-known member
Regarding watching birds in thermals, for calling Owls etc, you can often actually watch the bird. Of course, I prefer seeing the plumage features but in a group with a leader that is not using a thermal, the arse end of an owl disappearing at the pursuit of someone randomly wielding a torch is a far less satslisfying experience for me. I would rather take some time seeing a settled bird and be more relaxed about the plumage features.
I have only watched Great Spotted Kiwi through a thermal. I cannot think of anything else for me that is "thermal only".
All the best
Paul
Edit - corrected from Welding Torch. No wonder the Owl flew away!
I have only watched Great Spotted Kiwi through a thermal. I cannot think of anything else for me that is "thermal only".
All the best
Paul
Edit - corrected from Welding Torch. No wonder the Owl flew away!
Mysticete
Well-known member
I think the default state for most birders is wanting to have a good experience with a bird, however you define that experience (hearing it really well, or seeing its features). I think people arguing about the exact specifics required to count a bird is sort of straw man exercise...I am not sure anyone is going to simply setting up a audio recording device in the middle of the jungle and count everything that Merlin hears, nor mark of every Tinamou or Tapaculo based on a fuzzy, brief thermal image. Even if they did, who cares? It's not like having a Berlepsch's Tinamou somehow on your list somehow entitles you to a cash award. The only numbers a birder should really be that concerned with is there own.
dantheman
Bah humbug
Except this thread wouldn't even exist if that was solely the case ...
Mysticete
Well-known member
Well, I would also argue that obsession over who has the biggest list is also a bit silly to be honest
That said I am also a raging hypocrite, who used to get really caught up in ABA big years. So what do I know!
Paul Chapman
Well-known member
There is a vicarious enjoyment in that. It is far less a comparative exercise and more a spectator sport.
All the best
Paul
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Tell that to all the people that add their lists to public platforms.
My only comments on this are in relation to those who publish their lists for varying reasons, if you want to be competitive, you need to have the same rules for all.
I personally, have never heard anyone, say 'wow, we heard it so well', in circumstances like that, most would be livid that they hadn't been able to see it. If there's a strawman argument, it's not this one. 99.9% of birders, get off by having a wondeful view of a species, that is the reality of it, anyone else is in a very small minority but I'm not judging them for that - unless they publish a list for comparison that is.
David Ferguson
Well-known member
Four of us were standing in a row in a Venezuelan forest listening to the very loud and distinctive calls of a Rufous-winged Ground-cuckoo. The bird came closer and closer. The two on the right saw the bird but the two on the left (which included me) didn't. I definitely felt short-changed.
MiddleRiver
Well-known member
I agree and it all goes back to whether we bird for our own curiosity about the natural world, or for more competitive reasons. For me, the listing is specifically about 'citizen science' (i.e. eBird etc.) and because of that, I have to be very confident about ID, which mostly means eyes-on-the-bird (unless common, not imitated species) and if it's rare, vagrant, etc. I want a photo of course.
But yeah, I'm not judging others either - they can go by whatever 'rules' their peers are ok with.
Similar threads
