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Unbirded localities of the world (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter jurek
- Start date
MiddleRiver
Well-known member
fascinating. thanks for sharing ;-)
Kumawa was visited in 2014 and 2017 by myself and colleague Borja Mila and this led to the capture of an undescribed Melanocharis which we formally described (and positioned phylogenetically with regards to other known Melanocharis) and named Satin Berrypecker (Melanocharis citreola) (see attached reprint) ; interestingly, the undescribed Melanocharis you (?) observed in Fakfak in 1992 may belong to the same species, pending confirmation with further observations and photographs.
I visited Wondiwoi Mts in 2022 ; in spite of having to cut a trail, we reached 1000m elevation under very rainy conditions and had to backtrack after a couple of days under the rain. The people who accompanied us are now running a little business to take birding tourists to 1500m and the trail seems to have been improved, so I guess there might be a lot of new records to come in the near future even though the hike is a very tough one.
James Kempton, from Oxford Univ, led an expedition last year to the northern slopes of the Cyclops Mts. While the emphasis was not one birds and in spite of difficulty to access, they managed to obtain video footage of Mayr's honeyeater, probably not far from the top ridges.
It looks very close but it culminates at 2000m and the slopes are not gentle, so it is possible but extremely difficult. I went there in 2022 and we reached 1000m having to cut a trail - it took two days under the rain and after two more days of rain we had to return since the villagers were unwilling to stay longer under the cold and wet conditions and we ran out of food anyway ; now there is a trail to at least 1600m and people from Ramiki village are well organised and can take you there, but still be prepared for a tough hike.I looked at the map and the top of Wondiwoi Mountains chain is at times just 5 km from a road and a village - surely this must be reachable... Some people found tree kangaroos there.
You made me dream - although I doubt if I can go there ever...
Ficedula
velico ergo sum
Brilliant, I am so glad someone is returning to these areas after so long. A very satisfactory arm-chair tick! When are you going to the Fakfak to describe the other things I saw? cheers Dave Gibbs
(I remember now you contacting me before publication but i missed your paper coming out so thanks for posting it here)
Mark Harper
World Birder
There is an expedition going to the Fakfak mountains this year, which should be describing several new species.
Captain_of_Crunch
YVdpep_re64
North Korea will be almost entirely unbirded, other than by a handful of tourists on highly stage-managed tours at a guess? I suspect the environment will also be heavily degraded from agriculture/industry. One area that could be good is the DMZ and the untouched habitats therein but it is almost compeletly inaccessible.
On a more local note, looking at records of common species such as Wren and Robin at a 1km square leve, there are many areas where there are no records of either in BirdTrack or eBird. I have even found a 1km square a few hundred metres from where I live with no records of Robin (something to do tomorrow morning!). Maybe this could be incentivised like patch watching?
On a more local note, looking at records of common species such as Wren and Robin at a 1km square leve, there are many areas where there are no records of either in BirdTrack or eBird. I have even found a 1km square a few hundred metres from where I live with no records of Robin (something to do tomorrow morning!). Maybe this could be incentivised like patch watching?
Ficedula
velico ergo sum
Excellent, any more info on this, who or what institution(s) are organising this? any links?
Mark Harper
World Birder
I was on a trip with Frank Rheindt earlier this year and he mentioned he was organising a trip there for later this year hoping to describe a couple of new species. I don't know much more than that.
Ficedula
velico ergo sum
I believe Frank tried to follow my route to the summit of Fakfak from Worsaret some years ago but failed because the locals wouldn't take him iirc? Perhaps he is trying a different starting pint this time?
Andy Hall
Notts Birder
I was thinking of North Sentinel when I saw this thread. Definitely no birders going there. Wouldn't be surprised if it's hiding an endemic though.
dantheman
Bah humbug
Red Bull? ... or Carlsberg?
Hello David, I wish we could go to Fakfak to describe the other things but it seems that Frank Rheindt will have another attempt. Maybe things will be easier this time with a lot more pêople around Fakfak interested in taking birders into the woods
Sorry for not having sent you the paper earlier
Cheers Christophe
YuShan
Well-known member
Yes, birding has become a racket in many places.
Paul Chapman
Well-known member
Without an economic benefit from the existence of wildlife in the modern world, there is no realistic prospect that any of it will exist in 50 years unless the world weans itself off its current aspirations. There is no realistic prospect of the latter. (We have broken the systems where we could as a species co-exist with wildlife.)
Too long and complex for a Birdforum thread especially as a tangent. I understand the frustration but I am a pragmatist really and take some comfort from ecotourism schemes (or rackets)....
I'll continue to feed them and can only apologise to those with different principles for the encouragement and price rises that my behaviour produces in the modern world of compulsory guides & tracking certificates.... 😒
I am jealous of the likes of Ficedula (& other friends) who experienced true wilderness & remote places.
All the best
Paul
Too long and complex for a Birdforum thread especially as a tangent. I understand the frustration but I am a pragmatist really and take some comfort from ecotourism schemes (or rackets)....
I'll continue to feed them and can only apologise to those with different principles for the encouragement and price rises that my behaviour produces in the modern world of compulsory guides & tracking certificates.... 😒
I am jealous of the likes of Ficedula (& other friends) who experienced true wilderness & remote places.
All the best
Paul
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jurek
Well-known member
If the discussion drifted towards economics of tourism, I always point that the tourist countries which really developed are ones like Thailand, which allowed cheap and unregulated tourism. Where tourism is controlled by few agents and small expensive lodges, money flow to a narrow group of people, and the population stays poor and uncaring about wildlife. At best you got one showpiece reserve and the rest of habitat gets destroyed.
There may be more to this, for example places which are well organized beforehand are liked by tourists and develop local tourism, but countries which are generally corrupt both allow grabbing tourist money by small cliques and cannot protect their wildlife.
There may be more to this, for example places which are well organized beforehand are liked by tourists and develop local tourism, but countries which are generally corrupt both allow grabbing tourist money by small cliques and cannot protect their wildlife.
Paul Chapman
Well-known member
Some broad overarching conclusions. I see the world with more nuance and complexity. 😀
I have some understanding of Thailand having spent about six weeks there. In general terms, my thoughts are:-
(1) preserved areas are higher elevation habitats that became National Parks;
(2) the balance of habitat in lowland areas is being destroyed with catastrophic declines in open habitat species such as Long-tailed Shrike - a similar story in grassland species in Africa;
(3) access to prime habitats and habitats outside of daylight hours is restricted in at least some areas with regulations in place for instance at Khao Yai & Kaeng Krachen - this generates revenue which is in part directed towards wildlife preservation;
(4) there is an improvement but there remain significant issues on trapping and the cagebird trade with the eradication of even for instance Red-whiskered Bulbul in some areas - this is sometimes at least for export to other markets; &
(5) the shrine to Gurney's Pitta at Krabi is one of the most heartbreaking places on earth where you can be surrounded by huge numbers of tourists alongside large models of a species heading to extinction. (No one knows what is happening to the population in Myanmar.)
There is no criticism of the general Thai population in these thoughts. The eccentricity of not looking to scrape a living for the benefit of your family is reserved for those privileged like me who have already done far more damage to the world by my participation in our economic system.
These views are my own but I have had the advantage of 100's of hours of discussion with a very knowledgeable Thai birder over those couple of months.
A stunning country with lots of biodiversity still that I massively recommend. A leading light in the region in its approach.
All the best
Paul
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There's a few places in Cumbria which, as far as I know, aren't visited by birdwatchers since I've retired from going to them. I tend to do most of my birdwatching using the local bus now, rather than driving to remote locations, like I used to. When I was going to some of these out of the way locations I'd send in my reports to the local bird club and wondered just how many other places there are in the county like these, and who'd visit them when I got older or kicked the bucket.
As far as I know nobody has taken up the reins; looking at subsequent county bird reports and they are now unwatched.
One of the reasons is that some of the locations are hard work, involving a several miles of walking up and down steep hills; something a few birdwatchers aren't always keen to do. One of them is near Killington where not only did I never see one other birdwatcher in the many visits I made, I only ever saw one couple out for a walk. I could tell nobody else had been since my last visit; a footpath which crossed a stream became steadily more and more overgrown, it thus became nigh on impassable as the years went by. It was remarkably good for birds with Yellowhammer, Common Redstart, Spotted Flycatcher Stonechat, several species of warbler, Cuckoo and so on. Another location was on the way to Tebay. It's private land with no public footpaths. The farmer had stopped anyone visiting years ago. I asked the landowner for permission to explore it for birds and he gave the go-ahead. There used to be Whinchat, Cuckoo, Stonechat, Common Redstart, many warblers and a host of other birds. Another is a fell near Sedbergh. There's no proper footpath, it's incredibly steep and when you reach the top it's generally boggy and unpleasant to walk on. Great for birds but no so much for walkers, or birdwatchers who don't enjoy a hard slog.
There are a few places like this I used to visit, and if the county records are anything to go by, they are now completely devoid of birdwatchers altogether.
As far as I know nobody has taken up the reins; looking at subsequent county bird reports and they are now unwatched.
One of the reasons is that some of the locations are hard work, involving a several miles of walking up and down steep hills; something a few birdwatchers aren't always keen to do. One of them is near Killington where not only did I never see one other birdwatcher in the many visits I made, I only ever saw one couple out for a walk. I could tell nobody else had been since my last visit; a footpath which crossed a stream became steadily more and more overgrown, it thus became nigh on impassable as the years went by. It was remarkably good for birds with Yellowhammer, Common Redstart, Spotted Flycatcher Stonechat, several species of warbler, Cuckoo and so on. Another location was on the way to Tebay. It's private land with no public footpaths. The farmer had stopped anyone visiting years ago. I asked the landowner for permission to explore it for birds and he gave the go-ahead. There used to be Whinchat, Cuckoo, Stonechat, Common Redstart, many warblers and a host of other birds. Another is a fell near Sedbergh. There's no proper footpath, it's incredibly steep and when you reach the top it's generally boggy and unpleasant to walk on. Great for birds but no so much for walkers, or birdwatchers who don't enjoy a hard slog.
There are a few places like this I used to visit, and if the county records are anything to go by, they are now completely devoid of birdwatchers altogether.
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Mysticete
Well-known member
Another obvious place is just in general the high seas, especially in tropical regions. There are various seabirds that are at best poorly known and which almost certainly represent new species. There are also a lot of known species where we have only a vague idea at most where they breed, or there normal range at certain times of year.
