Where are made the Conquest HD (1 Viewer)

[jan van daalen]

So it seems the made in Germany label is useless and completely duplicitous.

That is one way of looking at it. The other way is......... the law is the law.

What remains is the question why Zeiss felt the needs to go that Label route.
Still, for a lot of people the inscription "Made in Germany" stands for quality and "Made in China" for less.
Paying the Chinese OEM the product price of the Japanese OEM would certainly result in a better product for the same price IMHO.
But again, Made in China versus Made in Japan versus Made in Germany. Not a tough choice for the majority of customers and that is the only thing that counts.

Jan

 

[Prestdj]

very interesting reading along with some other topics on here, its a rabbit hole

 

[dries1]

To quote Jan, which hits the nail on the head.
"It's all about profit and margins".

 

[Steve C]

It seems to me when the current Conquest came out there was a giant thread here on BF. Many posts in, the difficulties Jan described above in dealing with Zeiss on the matter he posted about above came out. Somewhere along the line (Brock I think) discovered that the EU law stated that only 5% of a particular product needed to be made in a particular country in order to legally state that the product was made there. Hence Zeiss was probably completely legal in the claim "Made in Germany". Honesty is however another matter. Honesty and advertising are somewhat at odds with each other. As Jan pointed about above about profits and margins.

 

[_Prism_]

In those days the distribution of Zeiss in The Netherlands was done by a third party and they, not knowing the Zeiss position, told me that the Conquest was made in Japan.
Confronting the Head of Zeiss optics with this fact (and told him not to f...k with me as that would have consequences), he told me that the Conquest was indeed Made in Japan but with exclusive Zeiss manufacturing equipment like the high vacuum coating device and the Conquest was shipped to Germany in five pieces. In Wetzlar it got put together under Zeiss QC.

Later in time, Zeiss took the distribution of their optics in The Netherlands in their own hands. The former distributor was not amused and told me that the only thing that was done to the Conquest in Germany was mounting the eyecups on the Conquest to make the device in a working state so, by European Law, it was Made in Germany.
Who to believe.

If what the Head of Zeiss Optics told you is true, then it seems to me that enough work (the initial R&D, perhaps tooling / manufacturing of the machines, assembly, final QC and packaging) is done in Germany to qualify for a Made in Germany label and Zeiss are not being duplicitous.

This conflicts with what the former distributor has told you, but of course this is hearsay. I would probably be more inclined to believe the head of Zeiss Optics, rather than an (understandably) upset former distributor, but that's just my opinion. As mentioned, I personally have no issue with Made in Japan (my Victory Pocket, which I thoroughly enjoy, is MiJ), I was simply curious as to the specifics given that there is so much chatter about it. I've also owned the Conquest HD and found them fantastic, Japanese or German-production aside.

 

[ZDHart]

Do current production Conquest HD binoculars still include "Made in Germany" marking?

I have 8x32 and 10x42 Conquest HDs that I purchased in May of 2014. They are marked "Made in Germany" though apparently, according to some opinion, they are either partially, or mostly, of Japanese origin?

They've served me flawlessly these seven years. Excellent quality. Wherever they were made.

If the product quality and performance lives up to the Zeiss name, where it is manufactured is not especially important, except there is the psychological and marketing "panache" given by proclamation of a particular country of origin.

I will admit to having residual psychological bias against products originating in China, however I am continually impressed with the quality of numerous Apple products (laptops, desktops, phones, watches) that I use - which were flawlessly produced in (gulp) China.

At one time, in my lifetime, "Made in Japan" was a sign of atrocious, poor quality. Of course today, "Made in Japan" is a sign of very high quality. Same progression over the years has been subsequently taking place regarding "Made in China".

 

[ZDHart]

In these times of Internet forums where anyone can voice any opinion, as "fact", many accept those views "as fact". When in truth, it's really difficult to fully believe in or trust what anyone here (on the web) says. All expressed here is best consumed with a grain (or more) of salt, in my view. I wouldn't bet good money on where and to what degree, exactly, Conquest HD bins are made. Has anyone here actually witnessed the manufacturing of Conquest HDs?

 

[eronald]

There is one consequence of all this "made in" stuff, and that is the problem of repair. When a company subcontracts assembly, it quite possibly does not invest in the tooling and training to do repairs at the mothership, does not necessarily design the product for disassembly at the mothership, nor does it necessarily contract such repairs from the subcontractor. Repair implicitly becomes replacement. Of course, if the real manufacturing cost of a china-made $1000 binocular is somewhere around $80 or so, then it makes sense to replace items from current production for the first few years, and then use the old stock for repairs until it runs out.

Edmund

 

[ZDHart]

Good point, Edmund. And I'm sure you're correct in that warranty repairs on some of the lesser, China made bins likely are satisfied by pulling a fresh pair off the shelf for the customer. Less costly for the producer to replace, than to repair.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

It does not matter at all where the Conquests are made, since the name of Zeiss is on it and that company is responsible for quality, guarantee and repair and that comapany has shown for more than one and a half century to be very capable of doing this. As yet I have not seen data to show that the Zeiss Conquests are inferior products.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Swedpat]

A salesman told me Conquests are made by Kamakura. But it does not matter for me.

 

[eronald]

It does not matter at all where the Conquests are made, since the name of Zeiss is on it and that company is responsible for quality, guarantee and repair and that comapany has shown for more than one and a half century to be very capable of doing this. As yet I have not seen data to show that the Zeiss Conquests are inferior products.
Gijs van Ginkel

Some of the culture of the production site always bleeds through to the end product. I don't think a made in Germany Steinway grand will necessarily be identical to its US brother.

 

[Conndomat]

I don't think a made in Germany Steinway grand will necessarily be identical to its US brother.

No Steinway grand piano is identical to another, all are unique!

Andreas

 

[jan van daalen]

A salesman told me Conquests are made by Kamakura. But it does not matter for me.

Now it is interesting to know where that salesman got his knowledge from. Is he multi brand optics trader, a Zeiss rep etc.

Jan

 

[CSG]

This forum is something else. I don't remember when I bought my 8x32 Conquest HDs but I bought the from Eagle Optics probably not long after they were first released. I may have written about it here when I bought them. I've understood that for them to be marked, as they are, Made in Germany, that some amount of manufacturing had to be completed in Germany. I think I was under the impression that many of the parts were sourced from Japan but most of the assembly was done in Germany. As they are my favorite binoculars of all I currently own and have owned, even over my 8x42 Victory HTs, which are optically superior, I guess I won't lose too much sleep over this issue. But I don't accept what is stated as fact on internet forums without evidence. I see no evidence here. Someone talked to someone and even bragged, it seemed, about threatening a Zeiss employee. So that's the proof of what's under discussion?? Mmmmkay.

 

[jan van daalen]

Mmmmmmkay,

Would it be enough proof when I just got a visit from Zeiss with the message not to share confidential information on BF?

Jan

 

[eronald]

Mmmmmmkay,

Would it be enough proof when I just got a visit from Zeiss with the message not to share confidential information on BF?

Jan

What, you’re not allowed to tell us where Bösendorfers are made?
Actually, I don’t think anyone really care where binoculars are made, but whether they can be serviced in Europe is an interesting question for those with Zeiss instruments that are finalized and collimated by a subcontractor.

Edmund

 

[AlphaFan]

Zeiss recently held a small event at Hawk Mountain in Pennsylvania. All of the Conquests I saw had the “Made in Germany“ label. Since this is a repetitive topic I questioned that with the Zeiss regional rep present, and he didn’t really bat an eye to explain that some parts/components are outsourced, some are from world-wide Zeiss-owned/controlled operations, but the final fabrication/assembly takes place in Germany. He saw me with my Victory SFs, handed me an 8x32 Conquest HD and asked me to take it outside and let him know what I thought. In a word = “spectacular!” While I think there is certainly room for improvement in haptics, the view from the HDs is deeply satisfying, regardless of where each of its many components are fabricated.

One question I have to ask is why this “where is it made” topic always seems so heavily focused on Zeiss and particularly the Conquest. After all, does anyone truly believe that in today’s global economy and component specialization that the SLC, EL and NL Pure are 100% true to their “Made in Austria” label?

 

[Conndomat]

One question I have to ask is why this “where is it made” topic always seems so heavily focused on Zeiss and particularly the Conquest. After all, does anyone truly believe that in today’s global economy and component specialization that the SLC, EL and NL Pure are 100% true to their “Made in Austria” label?

I think the term "Made in Germany" has a strong emotional connotation, it stands for the highest level of engineering, the best materials, absolute precision and durability.
Recently there was the same discussion about a Leica Noctivid, the buyer was absolutely satisfied with the glass, what bothered him a lot was that it was "Made in Portugal", for this reason alone he had to consider returning the glass.

"Made in Germany" is not just an indication of where something was manufactured, it is a brand in itself.
For some people it is just difficult to understand that globalization has also captured the brand "Made in Germany", when old monuments fall it is just regrettable.

means,
Andreas (Made in Germany)

 

[james holdsworth]

Mmmmmmkay,

Would it be enough proof when I just got a visit from Zeiss with the message not to share confidential information on BF?

Jan

So Zeiss wants to hide the source of manufacture now?