• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Swarovski NL 8x42 - First Impressions (7 Viewers)

Hi Andy,

I agree that the balance of distortions in the SE is a good compromise, but that has nothing to do with field flatness (correction of field curvature and astigmatism). Field flatness can be accomplished with any form of distortion the designer chooses.

Henry
 
Henry,

So it will be curious what distortion/compression the outer field near the field stop will be on the NLs. What is the difference of what Nikon used and what SW used with respect to correction of field curvature, as they both use field flatteners.
 
What is the difference of what Nikon used and what SW used with respect to correction of field curvature, as they both use field flatteners.

The Swarovski SVs correct both field curvature and astigmatism, but the Nikon SE really only corrects astigmatism well. For my non accommodating eyes it has around 3 diopters of field curvature. You can test that by focusing an object at the 6:00 position on the field edge using only the right ocular and one eye. Now move the object up to the field center and refocus using the diopter adjustment and note the change in the diopter scale on the eyepiece.

In this 10 year old post I made some drawings of the different possibilities for off-axis corrections and where the SE and SV fit in.

https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1879542&postcount=5

Henry
 
The first sentence is not a description of pincushion distortion, but rather a description of angular magnification distortion, which as you say increases as pincushion distortion decreases.
Thanks, Henry. I hadn't made the transition from looking at straight lines near the edge in my own more traditional binos, to looking at a figure like a square (or circle, in your diagram). I've never really used a model like the EL SV that shows strong AMD. I suppose it would make sense if the NL took a similar approach.
 
Got a chance to play around with a 10x42 NL Pure for a few hours.

Attached is a snapshot of grid paper through the binocular, taken through the objective with the target behind the eyepieces about an inch or two away.

- Kimmo
 

Attachments

  • NL1042Grid.jpg
    NL1042Grid.jpg
    83.9 KB · Views: 234
Attached is a snapshot of grid paper through the binocular, taken through the objective with the target behind the eyepieces about an inch or two away.
Can someone who has knowledge of such things explain the implications of this photo if rather than looking through the objectives at an object close to the ocular lenses one were looking through the oculars at an object far away from the objectives?
 
One is tempted to assume that the barrel distortion visible in the graph paper image photographed through the binocular in reverse would imply that the opposite distortion character would be visible when using the binocular in normal viewing mode. This would imply strong pincushion for the 10X42 NL.

But this test is not valid since the graph paper is not at infinity or any reasonable viewing distance. This test is more about what the distortion is between the exit pupil and the entrance pupil.

Try this with any binocular and you will probably see similar results, even a binocular that is very well corrected for straight line distortion will probably show something similar.

So, this begs the question for Kimmo or anyone evaluating the NL binocular. What is the distortion character when using the binocular in normal use? Inquiring minds would like to know!

Stephanie
 
One is tempted to assume that the barrel distortion visible in the graph paper image photographed through the binocular in reverse would imply that the opposite distortion character would be visible when using the binocular in normal viewing mode. This would imply strong pincushion for the 10X42 NL.

But this test is not valid since the graph paper is not at infinity or any reasonable viewing distance. This test is more about what the distortion is between the exit pupil and the entrance pupil.

Try this with any binocular and you will probably see similar results, even a binocular that is very well corrected for straight line distortion will probably show something similar.

So, this begs the question for Kimmo or anyone evaluating the NL binocular. What is the distortion character when using the binocular in normal use? Inquiring minds would like to know!

Stephanie

The graph paper isn't at infinity, but neither would be my eye. In my experience, an image such as Kimmo posted _is_ a good indicator of a bin's distortion characteristics (in reverse) and some other things. Looks like fairly even pincushion when viewing with only a bare hint of mustache in the mix. Looks impressively flat as well. Low CA too!

--AP
 
I took this photo rather in a hurry, with a hand-held smartphone camera. The short distance exaggerates the barrel distortion in the photo (as the photo is taken from the objective side, barrel means pincushion for normal viewing).

What I saw when viewing with these was very mild pincushion distortion, and what for me was a very natural panning behaviour, very similar to what I get with my Canon 10x42 L IS. For reference, I'm somewhat bothered by the rolling ball I see in Zeiss SF, including the 8x32 I got to try a short while back. I did not have binoculars other than the Canon to compare these with, but by memory I would say these have a more successful distortion pattern than either the SF series or the EL's.

Kimmo
 
Thanks Kimmo.

Just what I was curious about and very happy to hear the 10X42 NL has well behaved panning. I am sensitive to rolling ball as well.

Stephanie
 
The graph paper isn't at infinity, but neither would be my eye. In my experience, an image such as Kimmo posted _is_ a good indicator of a bin's distortion characteristics (in reverse) and some other things. Looks like fairly even pincushion when viewing with only a bare hint of mustache in the mix. Looks impressively flat as well. Low CA too!

--AP

Your eye is focused at infinity during normal binocular use. So your retina is optically at infinity for a normal person with relaxed vision.

The graph paper test would be valid for distortion if the graph paper were at infinity, or at a reasonable distance such as several meters.

Stephanie
 
Your eye is focused at infinity during normal binocular use. So your retina is optically at infinity for a normal person with relaxed vision...

My cornea and lens would not be at infinity. Aren't we most interested in what is delivered to them? Regardless, I've found that looking through bins backwards such as shown in Kimmo's image is extremely useful in the ways described, plus some others such as perceiving overall color casts.

--AP
 
My cornea and lens would not be at infinity. Aren't we most interested in what is delivered to them? Regardless, I've found that looking through bins backwards such as shown in Kimmo's image is extremely useful in the ways described, plus some others such as perceiving overall color casts.

--AP

To simulate your eye with the graph paper test you would need to put a zero distortion lens in front of the graph paper (to image the graph paper at infinity, like your retina). Then you would have great test. But, it is hard to find a substitute for the compact lens/retina/brain visual system that corrects for distortion over a large FOV.

Stephanie
 
Other brief observations on the 10x NL.

- Very low CA. Very similar to my ATX 95 in that CA is barely perceptible anywhere close to the center. Towards the far edges, there are the typical lateral CA yellow-green and violet-magenta lines at outer/inner edges of high-contrast lines, but these are very narrow and, like Pekka said about the 8x, only visible if one looks for them, which is inconvenient with the FoV being as wide as it is.

- Extremely sharp image which snaps to focus easily and is relaxing to view. I used a Zeiss tripler (3x12 monocular) to assess image sharpness with the binoculars tripod-mounted, viewing a USAF 1951 2" vapour-deposited glass target. Due to time constraints, I did not attempt to define a precise resolution limit, but will say that what I saw at 30x was the cleanest image I have yet seen in a binocular, very close to what I expect in a high-quality telescope when magnified or boosted to similar exit pupils.

- A quick and dirty artificial star test (at 30x) showed no prism line and perfectly circular diffraction patterns both inside and outside focus. Inside focus (infinity side of focus for my 10 distant target) showed very clear and evenly illuminated rings all the way to focus stop, while outside focus (closer than target) showed fuzzier circles with some concentration of light toward the central spot, meaning some SA but, again, significantly less than typical for even high-quality binoculars. The left tube was probably the best binocular tube I have seen, while the right tube was not quite as excellent (probably a little more SA, just a tad less sharp looking target at 30x) but still among the best I have seen in binoculars.

Inside focus diffraction rings had purple on the outside of the outermost ring while outside focus rings had green, but this also was less than typically seen - not unlike what I see in Swarovski's HD spotting scopes.

Viewing towards the sun with the sun some 10 degrees above the horizon, there was some veiling glare towards the bottom of the image. This mostly stayed at the edge or, at most, bottom third of the image, but was immediately noticeable to me when comparing with the Canon which is one the best I have used in this regard. At around sunset, I viewed some more, and here again the NL had more veiling glare than the Canon. As it stayed away from the image center, it did not bother me too much, but this was the one area where the NL was less than state-of-the-art in my view.

I'll conclude with a couple of observations about the forehead rest. I'm one of those viewers who tends to view with eyecups resting on my forehead and nose bridge, i.e. interfacing with my skull. If this is not possible, I press my thumbs against my cheekbones and rest the binoculars between my palms. Compared to these ways of holding the binoculars, I detected no difference from using the forehead rest. However, when I tried viewing with my glasses on (which I don't usually do), the forehead rest was extremely good. It allowed me to keep the eyecups down far enough so that they barely touched my glasses, allowing the glasses to stay perfectly positioned and aligned to my pupils the way the optician had intended, while the binocular stayed aligned to my eyes as it was "anchored" in place by the forehead rest. I can easily see that for eyeglass wearers this could quickly become a must.

Kimmo
 
I wonder what the same image will look like through the 8X42 NL, a few more weeks to go.

Andy W.

Wondering the same, how does the 8X42 NL compare to the 10X42 NL? I really need to compare them side by side to decide between the two. I have mostly given up on handheld 10X binocs since I am older than dirt and not as steady as in the past but the trick headrest on the new NL has me tempted to get the 10X42.

Stephanie
 
Thanks Kimmo for the detailed report on the 10X NL.

I think you have everyone's attention now in anticipation of getting our hands on the NL.

Stephanie
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top