• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Where premium quality meets exceptional value. ZEISS Conquest HDX.

The darker side of listing (5 Viewers)

Johann Sebastian Bach

Johann Sebastian Bach

Quietly decomposing
England
Various posts on the rare bird thread made me wonder how many birders are strictly law-abiding in terms of:
trespassing;
disturbance of schedule 1 birds (e.g. using tapes);
damaging habitat;
and other despicable acts. ;)

Points of interest to me are:
is there anyone who can claim impeccable behaviour and an impeccable list?
how many "illegal" ticks do people have (e.g. going onto private land)?
tales of the dark side of twitching/birding.
why otherwise law-abiding people become almost deranged when a rare bird appears.

I'll start the ball rolling by admitting that I've trespassed a great deal and have been threatened with arrest on Porton Down (where stone-curlews and a microbiological warfare establishment cohabit).
I have a friend who described his first corncrake as "involving a Landrover, a broken gate and spotlights". He will tell me no more.

Peter
 
Hopefully few people will admit to this sort of behaviour!!

Johann Sebastian Bach said:
Various posts on the rare bird thread made me wonder how many birders are strictly law-abiding in terms of:
trespassing;
disturbance of schedule 1 birds (e.g. using tapes);
damaging habitat;
and other despicable acts. ;)

Points of interest to me are:
is there anyone who can claim impeccable behaviour and an impeccable list?
how many "illegal" ticks do people have (e.g. going onto private land)?
tales of the dark side of twitching/birding.
why otherwise law-abiding people become almost deranged when a rare bird appears.

I'll start the ball rolling by admitting that I've trespassed a great deal and have been threatened with arrest on Porton Down (where stone-curlews and a microbiological warfare establishment cohabit).
I have a friend who described his first corncrake as "involving a Landrover, a broken gate and spotlights". He will tell me no more.

Peter
Click to expand...
 
Fully admit to having tresspassed countless times. Always very careful at all times though not to cause damage or disturbance. They're higher priorities to me. Have had landowners threaten me with shotguns twice, and on a third occasion even fire one in my general direction (wasn't even twitching, just looking through wintering bunting flocks trying to find something better!)
 
Personally can't say I have done anything unlawful or unethical with regards to bird watching, but then I'm not a massive twitcher.
I have mentioned it numerous times but in my experience the Pallas's Grasshopper Warbler on Blakeney point in 2001 caused the biggest case of dark side twitching I have witnessed.
Being only 12 at the time it certainly didn't give a good impression of bird watching seeing over 100 people encircle a small bush with this poor bird in it, a sad sight to say the least, certainly ruined it for those of us who hung back.
 
twitching doesn't have to equal those things, however.

I am big into listing, but can honestly claim:

To have never (at least knowingly) trespassed on private property when birding.

Never have used a tape on a threatened/endangered bird.

On habitat destruction, I probably have damaged some habitat when flipping logs/rocks for herps, but I am careful to always replaced them in the proper position and I avoid anything I can't physically flip.
 
A refreshing streak of realism/honesty, Peter!

I'm not going to admit to anything specific (in writing anyway), but let's just say that I'm sceptical of certain regularly-appalled BirdForum members ("Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells") who presumably behave like saints in everything they do. ;)
 
Richard Klim said:
A refreshing streak of realism/honesty, Peter!

I'm not going to admit to anything specific (in writing anyway), but let's just say that I'm sceptical of certain regularly-appalled BirdForum members ("Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells") who presumably behave like saints in everything they do. ;)
Click to expand...

Gotta be sceptical but I do believe there are people out there who try not harm the environment or break any laws when birding.
I think though there should be a similar thread named: The darker side of photography.
What (some) photographers do to get the frame filling shot of a rare migrant blows my mind! I'm not one to seek out confrontation, especially not on a twitch, but it does make you wanna shove their 600mm up their.....
 
Forgive me Father Peter, for I have sinned...
Gotta be careful in what's being admitted to on a world wide forum, but needless to say, in my bird obsessed late teens, I have been naughty on several occasions.

Trespass - too many times to be name many specific instances. Maybe caught by the warden in the middle of a reedbed on an RSPB reserve when I still needed Bittern for a lifer is my most embarassing. I still can't look Geoff Welch in the eye.

Theft - worst is definitely being refused access to a private part of Shotton Pools for a Purple Heron, then stealing a boat to cross the river from the other side to go commando-style up to the pools (and we dipped, and were escorted off by security...)

Illegal entering (not breaking and entering, as we left an access window open...) - we were desperate/skint and needed somewhere to sleep in a cold wintery Speyside.

Motoring laws - yep, plenty broken! Worst offences - probably grabbing 10 mins sleep at the wheel on the motorway at midnight on the way to Cornwall while my passenger steered, or having a full change of work clothes to birding clothes whilst still driving on the way for a mega!

Supression - several times at Flamborough...

But, you mellow and mature with age and realise that what you did wasn't so clever after all. There can be very few birders/twitchers who are totally guilt free. Even if its just putting your foot down on the motorway to get to the rarity that bit quicker...

Mark
 
Mark Newsome said:
Forgive me Father Peter, for I have sinned...
Gotta be careful in what's being admitted to on a world wide forum, but needless to say, in my bird obsessed late teens, I have been naughty on several occasions.

Trespass - too many times to be name many specific instances. Maybe caught by the warden in the middle of a reedbed on an RSPB reserve when I still needed Bittern for a lifer is my most embarassing. I still can't look Geoff Welch in the eye.

Theft - worst is definitely being refused access to a private part of Shotton Pools for a Purple Heron, then stealing a boat to cross the river from the other side to go commando-style up to the pools (and we dipped, and were escorted off by security...)

Illegal entering (not breaking and entering, as we left an access window open...) - we were desperate/skint and needed somewhere to sleep in a cold wintery Speyside.

Motoring laws - yep, plenty broken! Worst offences - probably grabbing 10 mins sleep at the wheel on the motorway at midnight on the way to Cornwall while my passenger steered, or having a full change of work clothes to birding clothes whilst still driving on the way for a mega!

Supression - several times at Flamborough...

But, you mellow and mature with age and realise that what you did wasn't so clever after all. There can be very few birders/twitchers who are totally guilt free. Even if its just putting your foot down on the motorway to get to the rarity that bit quicker...

Mark
Click to expand...

See you left the most serious crime until last ;)
 
upton-till-i-die said:
See you left the most serious crime until last ;)
Click to expand...

I was tempted to leave this out, due to how it is viewed by most birders. Maybe some would rather admit to GBH/attempted murder rather than the 'S' word...

Talking of GBH and sins to be confessed, I remember an RSPB warden from a Humber estuary reserve (naming no names) who was clobbered on the back of the head by a tripod totting twitcher after doubting his records. Some say his attitude mellowed a little following recovery...
 
Johann Sebastian Bach said:
I'll start the ball rolling by admitting that I've trespassed a great deal and have been threatened with arrest on Porton Down (where stone-curlews and a microbiological warfare establishment cohabit).
Click to expand...

My apologies. I'm reliably (and very firmly) warned that the said establishment is nothing to do with warfare. It is part of the Public Health Laboratory Service. They do nice things there and keep rabbits.
As pets.
Honest.
:-O

Peter
 
going onto private land
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with walking on private land you are only comitting an offence, and then only a civil one, if you refuse to leave when asked to do so.
 
And to put trespassing into perspective...

Speeding (which I suspect few of us can honestly deny doing at some time) is surely infinitely more socially irresponsible than discreet, non-destructive trespassing.

On a scale of 1 to 10 of wickedness, I'd suggest that judicious trespassing scores about 0.001. ;)
 
Last edited:
Johann Sebastian Bach said:
My apologies. I'm reliably (and very firmly) warned that the said establishment is nothing to do with warfare. It is part of the Public Health Laboratory Service. They do nice things there and keep rabbits.
As pets.
Honest.
:-O

Peter
Click to expand...

Its all so clear now JSB - MOD Porton Down is actually Ministry of Dwarf-lop-ears. 8-P

Developing Richard's comments further, driving without due care and attention must be high up there with the temptation of looking at pagers, using mobile phones and driving many hours on a long twitch.
 
Last edited:
Mono said:
There is nothing wrong with walking on private land you are only comitting an offence, and then only a civil one, if you refuse to leave when asked to do so.
Click to expand...

True, but I'd go further there are many areas when there are no legitimate reasons why people can't go there: private woods being the most obvious one. More land is being opened up but that should continue. I see no reason for not walking around the edge of arable fields, often it is less harmful for the farmer - who, lets face it wouldn't be farming if he/she wasn't subsidised by our taxes - than going across a footpath though the middle of a field. So I have no problem with trespassing at all, unless there is a legitimate reason for not doing so, very sensitive wildlife being an obvious one. In fact there is a case for mass trespass in woods; which is how I think the fells in the Lake District (or possibly the Peaks) were opened.

Having said that I wouldn't trespass in the States, I'd be too worried about being shot!
 
Banned from Cley NR, along with 4 other kids (some now matured into rather well respected birders, you know who you are!;)), when we'd travelled up for a Marsh Sandpiper sometime in the mid 80's, to discover that the reserve was closed because it was a Monday! :eek!:

We knew we'd get caught, but could we see the bird before we got kicked off?? We leaped over the gate on the main road, and ran as fast as our not-yet-hairy legs could carry us to the hides, and split up to cover 2 hides. We heard the screaming of the warden's wife as soon as we were over the gate. Puffing and panting and scanning crazed through the waders produced nothing for all of us, bar one, who claimed to get onto the bird. We were slapped and screamed at out of the hides and marched out to the road, by which time we were all bright red and ready to receive a further toasting from the warden. I might still be banned for all I know. Marsh Sand was a damn rare bird in the UK still back then.
 
In my experience, many people are willing to let people look on their property at a bird if they are asked politely. Trespassing without attempting to get permission wrecks things for everyone.

I would also argue that there are good reasons not to trespass. Here in the states, sometimes birders will forget to close a gate behind them, for instance, potentially allowing cattle to escape. There is also liability (what happens if you get injured?), issues of security (a birder or a vandal are not always easy to separate), property damage (tramping through fields for instance), etc. That doesn't even cover the potential harm to illegal trespassing on nature preserves, etc, where you may be disturbing breeding birds or damaging delicate habitat.
 
Steve Babbs said:
In fact there is a case for mass trespass in woods
Click to expand...

Clearly you don't own land. Given that a good proportion of persons who enter either drop rubbish, trample where they shouldn't or otherwise not respect the land, then quite understandable that not everybody is keen to open their lands to all and sundry.
 
Mysticete said:
I would also argue that there are good reasons not to trespass...
Click to expand...
That's why I referred to judicious (and discreet, non-destructive) trespass. There are many places around the world where landowners/authorities prohibit access to guard against hunting, woodcutting, fires, camping, dumping, leaving gates open etc... But as a birder I've no intention of doing those things. If I've travelled several thousand km to try to find some difficult species, I'm certainly prepared to slip through some barbed wire from time to time if that's what it takes - although I'm not condoning the disturbance of threatened species. If challenged, I'll try my diplomacy skills first, but would always be prepared to leave if requested (or shot at ;)).
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 14 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

spoonily
Does anyone not keep a life list?
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
7K
JWN Andrewes
JWN Andrewes
Swindon Addick
January 1st joint Birdforum list (2025 edition)
7 8 9
Replies
177
Views
10K
Julian Thomas
J
P
Owl viewing ethics
2
Replies
36
Views
6K
Xenospiza
Xenospiza
Swindon Addick
January 1st joint Birdforum list (2024 edition)
7 8 9
Replies
163
Views
24K
Oregonian
Oregonian
KenM
A Ruddy Duck question?
Replies
2
Views
2K
Andy Lakin
A

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 6 (members: 0, guests: 6)
Back
Top