New midsize (and midprice) Swaros in july (1 Viewer)

Actually I would think that just the opposite would be indicated if the rumor of the SLC's being on their way out is true.

Bob

walternewton said:

I take it this means it would make sense to hold off on any potential purchase of an 8x30 SLC for now?

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If you are happy with the 8x30 then by it at the close out price as you won't get an equivalent cheaper.

As Dale says they're won't be a HD SLC 8x30 ... so the CL won't be amazingly better. I suspect. YMMV.

Now with photos

Now with photos:

http://www.orniwelt.de/Fernglaeser/Swarovski/CL-Companion-30

Two mags (8x, 10x), 3 colors.

Still no pricing.

AFOV 55 degrees for the 8x30 and the 10x30. That's pretty poor. I also don't really like their looks. Not sure they'll be able to stand up to rough use in the field.

Like I said earlier in the thread, the world doesn't need yet another mediocre range of roofs.

Hermann

I would have liked to have seen a 7x30 with an 8* fov rather than a 8x with a 7* fov.

Poor Man's SLCs?

They look like mini-me SLC-non-HDs. Granted, 55* AFOV EPs are not great, but that's where they saved the money, with a simple EP design. And also by using aluminum instead of magnesium frames. I'm not sure why Hermann thinks they won't be sturdy. Swarovski has always built tough bins.

The right eyepiece diopter is preferable to me over the pull out diopter cover, but not as convenient as the pre-HD SLC's on-the-focuser push in and turn diopter.

The critical issue will be pricing. For the right price, I could "jump into the 'roski family" with an entry level Swarovski bin with top glass, Swarotop, Swarodour and Swarobright coatings.

Does anyone know where the CLs are made? If they are made in Austria, don't expect them to compete price-wise with Nikon's or even Meopta's entry level bins.

Hopefully, some dealers will have special introductory price "demos" so that the brave and beautiful will buy them and write mini-reviews of the poor man's SLCs.

I bet Ron (Surveyor) drooled on his keyboard after seeing that super sized optics testing equipment.

Brock

brocknroller said:

Does anyone know where the CLs are made?

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You can see "Made in Austria" on 'em in the video at 1:30.

Cabelas does show the new Swarovski model. They are backorderable, so maybe July as above.
10x30 - $999.99, 18.2 oz. 300 ft. /1,000 FOV
8x30 - 929.99 17.6 oz 372 ft. /1,000 FOV

The diopter adjust is simple, near the ocular, good thing, less trouble than the more
complex through the focuser.
I like the looks, lightweight, and priced very nice. Hopefully, it is as good or better
optically than the SLC 8x30. I think this is a smart move by Swarovski, nice small optic, should fill an important market segment. As far as the need for HD glass, the latest SLC 8x30, has very good control
of CA, so I would not have a big concern about that.

They are close to $300.00 more than the equivalent Zeiss conquests and the specs aren't too much different from them. Nikon has dropped it's 10 x 32 Premium (old LX/HG-L) but the 8 x 32 sells for less. There is other competiton from Meopta and Kowa in that price range. Makes one wonder why they dropped Kahles a few years back?
Bob

ceasar said:

They are close to $300.00 more than the equivalent Zeiss conquests and the specs aren't too much different from them.
Bob

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Bob:
I have not experience with the Conquest, but I am thinking the SLC has been considered a full step above the Conquest.
So specs. and pricing at this point may not mean much. We will see when
these new ones come available.
Zeiss has not introduced anything new for what is it, 6 years, so do consider that.
The latest Swarovski coatings do really make a difference.

Jerry

That is a good point IF these are better than the SLC. And then, how difficult would it be for Zeiss to improve their coatings without changing the binocular? As I recall they did that often in the past with earlier models. They just added an initial or an asterisk to the model to distinguish them.
Bob

PS: The problem, as I see it should not be with the 8 x 30. That should be top notch. It is the 10 x 30 that I wonder about. Nikon's 10 x 32 LX L was and still is an outstanding binocular and was rated at least equal to the other 3 Alpha 10 x 32's by many knowledgeable people. It was priced in the $1000.00-$1100.00 range. Nikon then went up a step with their new 10 x 32 EDG and it is a much better binocular all around (I have both) and it looks like Nikon has decided to drop that 10 x 32 from it's newly named Premier line since the EDG model was introduced.

Conversely, Swarovski never made a 10 x 30 SLC to complement it's 8 x 30; so this 10 x 30 is a new venture for them. Time will tell if it will sell. It's FOV is rather narrow.

Bob

ceasar said:

That is a good point IF these are better than the SLC. And then, how difficult would it be for Zeiss to improve their coatings without changing the binocular? As I recall they did that often in the past with earlier models. They just added an initial or an asterisk to the model to distinguish them.
Bob

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They probably do that silently as the bins are produced (as Swaro do).

They only add a letter or a * when there is a big change (and I don't think we'll see many of those in AR (T*) or P coatings)

Regarding the narrow FOV but you can see Swaro targeting Nikon Monarch buyers/users to upsell them to something with the Swaro name that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Even at 7° they're wider than a Monarch!

NDhunter said:

Cabelas does show the new Swarovski model. They are backorderable, so maybe July as above.
10x30 - $999.99, 18.2 oz. 300 ft. /1,000 FOV
8x30 - 929.99 17.6 oz 372 ft. /1,000 FOV

The diopter adjust is simple, near the ocular, good thing, less trouble than the more
complex through the focuser.
I like the looks, lightweight, and priced very nice. Hopefully, it is as good or better
optically than the SLC 8x30. I think this is a smart move by Swarovski, nice small optic, should fill an important market segment. As far as the need for HD glass, the latest SLC 8x30, has very good control
of CA, so I would not have a big concern about that.

Click to expand...

With the 20 oz. 8x30 SLCNeu still available at some stores for $899, $929 hardly sounds like an "entry level" price. Of course, not everybody likes that model's "pinky focuser".

If the CLs control CA as well as the 8x30 SLCNeu, agreed, HD glass would be superfluous, but that remains to be seen (or not if you can't see CA!).

I've also seen 7x42 SLCNeu demos for $1,299. Maybe once the 7x42 and 10x42 Neus are all gone, the CLs will fill the gap at the lower price point for those who want a lighter weight Swaro. Big difference there.

If the ergos work for you, and you are not overly sensitive to CA, the Nikon 8x32 Premier LXL with its 7.8* FOV still seems to be the best buy out there. I saw a NIB one for sale on eBay a few days ago for $625. Refurbs regularly sell for $699.

Having compared the 8x30 SLC and 8x32 LX side by side, they are pretty close, but I think the LX's image looks "sharper" due to more contrast and color saturation.

The best buys in the midsized category were the 8x32 and 10x32 EDGs that sold for $999 plus a free camera. If you bought one of those, you kissed the Blarney Stone.

Brock

As everyone in the video keeps repeating: size! size! size! Look how small they are, compare them in the video with that 8x32 EL sitting on the table.

17.6 oz. 372 ft. $930. I think Swaro can sell these. That FOV is good enough. They might just sell me one if it can best my 8x32 FL overall.

I also like the look of them. Midsize have no business with double hinges because you can't get your fingers between them (well, two, maybe, but not three). My guess is that CL feels REAL nice in hand.

Kammerdiner said:

As everyone in the video keeps repeating: size! size! size! Look how small they are, compare them in the video with that 8x32 EL sitting on the table.

17.6 oz. 372 ft. $930. I think Swaro can sell these. That FOV is good enough. They might just sell me one if it can best my 8x32 FL overall.

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Now the narrower FOV makes sense. They're trading weight for FOV (i.e. keeping down the amount of glass they need to put in the prism and EP). I'm sure their focus groups find that people don't like heavy bins. Some birder friends of mine tried Monarch recently and the weight is what sold them: they didn't care about the limited FOV especially as they were moving up from a cheap compact.

I doubt they'll best the 8x32FL ... no mention of fluorophophate glass and an AB would show how constraining the small FOV is even if the image is quite good (as is the Conquest 8x30).

Their target market for this "introductory binocular" is selling the Swaro brand to the the birders and a general middle class market that doesn't know bins but that would buy Nikon or the the (less expensive) Zeiss Conquest (8x30 and 10x30 ... the FOV of the CL is larger than these). You can even see features like 3 colors to differentiate "your bin" from the "wife's bin". Swaro doesn't do other colors on their higher end bins.

Other sales points from the video are a bit odd: "twist down eyecups no more roll down eyecups" is selling to an older upgrade market. The instance on "fitting in a large jacket pocket" and no showing straps in the video. Non-birders don't like straps. Speced at 9 feet but selling it as a butterfly bin is a bit of a stretch.

Is the EP 4 element or have they really gone retro and are back to a 3 element? ("Excellent center sharpness ... edge sharpness is very good" from the cheesy video). I suspect 4 element.

One interesting design question: negative focuser or positive focuser? It seems to me that one can control stray light better using a negative focuser (smaller and closer to the roof prism) than the larger positive focuser close to the objective e.g. Swaro went from positive to negative in the EL to Swarovision. I think this may be negative (it would help keep the weight down too).

The other question is will the Swarovision 32EL look more like the CL or will they keep the double hinge for a distinctive look. I could see arguing this both ways: wouldn't want to confuse the CL and EL in the field so keep the double hinge on the EL versus you can make more use of the barrel length if you omit that second hinge (as they show in the video). Why make the EL less grippy than the CL? But the EL will be heavier as it will have a wider FOV and a more complex EP (flat field?).

They may sell a few of these but I still think the non-upper middle class will experience some sticker shock with sub $1000 bins.

Kevin:
Swarovski does currently offer different colors, the EL 32 is available in the Traveller,
which is brown. Also the SLC models were produced in black a few years ago.
It will be interesting to see what the new model is like.

Jerry

Their compact 8 x 20 and 10 x 25 also come in the same 3 colors, I believe.
Bob

Their target market for this "introductory binocular" is selling the Swaro brand to the the birders and a general middle class market that doesn't know bins but that would buy Nikon or the the (less expensive) Zeiss Conquest (8x30 and 10x30 ... the FOV of the CL is larger than these).

Click to expand...

Zeiss Conquest : 8 X 30 FOV 120m / 390ft
Zeiss Conquest : 10 x 30 FOV 96m / 312ft

The latest SLC 8x30 has a FOV of 408 ft. @ 1,000 yds. And it has a nice available FOV, with a minimum of edge loss. So the new CL is narrower @ 372, and so I am thinking
the designers are staying with the theme of great edges from the Swarovision, and I
would expect a very sharp crisp to the edges view.
As far as the Zeiss, as posted for the Conquest, I wonder what the useable FOV
would be, with some dropoff, it reflects the older design, and I don't think it would be close to the
useable FOV with the Swarovskis.


Jerry