Zeiss tripod - now a ball-head Savage? (1 Viewer)

I have been contemplating the once in a lifetime purchase of a Zeiss 65 diascope. It is at the upper limit of my budget, so I have been considering purchasing it from a retailer that offers a free tripod with the scope & 15-45 zoom for $1,375.

Previously, I believed that the tripod Zeiss offered was a Manfrotto 055 with a 3130 fluid head. This would be a good usable base to mount the scope. The combination of this free good quality tripod with the scope is (was) a significant part of the cost equation in why I have been considering purchasing the Zeiss 65.

I am now disappointed to learn that Zeiss has taken the cheap route and is offering a ball-head tripod manufactured by Savage. I have never previously heard of Savage tripods. As far as I can tell from limited web searching, this is the only tripod manufactured by Savage. My first thought is that it is probably a piece of crap they obtain at a cheap price from a Chinese manufacturer.

I have previously considered a fluid head tripod a requirement for enjoyable, hassel-free use of the scope. Is this the general consensus, or are ball-heads not as much of a hassel as I am imagining them to be?

If ball-heads are a hassel to use for birding, then the price of the Zeiss package goes up another $200 for a decent tripod with fluid head. That means I'll be looking at the Nikon FS III 60ed with either the 30x or 20-60 zoom.

Anyone have any experience with this Savage tripod or using other ball-head tripods for birding?

Andy1 said:

I have been contemplating the once in a lifetime purchase of a Zeiss 65 diascope. It is at the upper limit of my budget, so I have been considering purchasing it from a retailer that offers a free tripod with the scope & 15-45 zoom for $1,375.

Previously, I believed that the tripod Zeiss offered was a Manfrotto 055 with a 3130 fluid head. This would be a good usable base to mount the scope. The combination of this free good quality tripod with the scope is (was) a significant part of the cost equation in why I have been considering purchasing the Zeiss 65.

I am now disappointed to learn that Zeiss has taken the cheap route and is offering a ball-head tripod manufactured by Savage. I have never previously heard of Savage tripods. As far as I can tell from limited web searching, this is the only tripod manufactured by Savage. My first thought is that it is probably a piece of crap they obtain at a cheap price from a Chinese manufacturer.

I have previously considered a fluid head tripod a requirement for enjoyable, hassel-free use of the scope. Is this the general consensus, or are ball-heads not as much of a hassel as I am imagining them to be?

If ball-heads are a hassel to use for birding, then the price of the Zeiss package goes up another $200 for a decent tripod with fluid head. That means I'll be looking at the Nikon FS III 60ed with either the 30x or 20-60 zoom.

Anyone have any experience with this Savage tripod or using other ball-head tripods for birding?

Click to expand...

Hi Andy, is this an 'official' Zeiss tripod, with Zeiss stamped on it or is it a dealer package? As far as I know, certainly in Europe, the Zeiss tripods are Manfrotto 055. I'd be amazed if Zeiss U.S. were supplying a ballhead design.

I think the dealer is the culprit here rather than Zeiss.

cheers,
Andy

Andy Bright said:

Hi Andy, is this an 'official' Zeiss tripod, with Zeiss stamped on it or is it a dealer package? As far as I know, certainly in Europe, the Zeiss tripods are Manfrotto 055. I'd be amazed if Zeiss U.S. were supplying a ballhead design.

I think the dealer is the culprit here rather than Zeiss.

cheers,
Andy

Click to expand...

Zeiss IS supplying the ballhead tripod as the companion to their diascopes. Here is the link to the tripod as offered by B&H photo.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=277789&is=REG
:C

Andy1 said:

Zeiss IS supplying the ballhead tripod as the companion to their diascopes. Here is the link to the tripod as offered by B&H photo.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=277789&is=REG
:C

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Looks like that is listed by BH as a cheaper alternative to the Manfrotto http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=315563&is=USA - it may be a Zeiss US thing?

Andy.

Andrew Rowlands said:

Looks like that is listed by BH as a cheaper alternative to the Manfrotto http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=315563&is=USA - it may be a Zeiss US thing?

Andy.

Click to expand...

I agree, it does appear to be a Zeiss US thing, but perhaps it will be coming to your side of the ocean as well. The other US Zeiss retailer that I had located that offers the "free" tripod with the scope purchase is Cabelas. The tripod they offer is the Savage ballhead model also.

I just have to wonder why Zeiss is doing this, other than the obvious reason of increased profits. Presumably, the tripod is offered as an additional incentive to purchase the Zeiss instead of one of the other high quality scopes on the market. As a scope buyer, if I am going to purchase a premium scope like the Zeiss, I surely don't want to mount it on a cheap, unknown tripod, manufactured by an unknown company with no track record that in the end, will only frustrate me during field use.

I would rather they offer a good quality tripod with a fluid head as a kit for a modest additional price, or reduce (or not increase) the scope price and don't offer any tripod. Instead, the price of the scope has increased by nearly $50 and the previous tripod has been replaced by an inferior product.

As long as the ballhead has the ability to pan with the ball tightened, it should be OK. Beware, though; realy good ballheads are really expensive!

Savage Ballhead Tripod

Andy1 said:

I have been contemplating the once in a lifetime purchase of a Zeiss 65 diascope. It is at the upper limit of my budget, so I have been considering purchasing it from a retailer that offers a free tripod with the scope & 15-45 zoom for $1,375.

Previously, I believed that the tripod Zeiss offered was a Manfrotto 055 with a 3130 fluid head. This would be a good usable base to mount the scope. The combination of this free good quality tripod with the scope is (was) a significant part of the cost equation in why I have been considering purchasing the Zeiss 65.

I am now disappointed to learn that Zeiss has taken the cheap route and is offering a ball-head tripod manufactured by Savage. I have never previously heard of Savage tripods. As far as I can tell from limited web searching, this is the only tripod manufactured by Savage. My first thought is that it is probably a piece of crap they obtain at a cheap price from a Chinese manufacturer.

I have previously considered a fluid head tripod a requirement for enjoyable, hassel-free use of the scope. Is this the general consensus, or are ball-heads not as much of a hassel as I am imagining them to be?

If ball-heads are a hassel to use for birding, then the price of the Zeiss package goes up another $200 for a decent tripod with fluid head. That means I'll be looking at the Nikon FS III 60ed with either the 30x or 20-60 zoom.

Anyone have any experience with this Savage tripod or using other ball-head tripods for birding?

Click to expand...

Hi Andy,
I'm new to the forum but I was researching Savage tripods and found this forum with your question so I had to answer you. I just got a Savage ballhead tripod with a kit purchase from b&h photo with a Kowa scope. I love the scope TSN 821 with 20x-60x zoom eyepice but I do not like the tripod. Fortunately for me, b&h sent me the wrong tripod so I get to return it. The ballhead is not very moveable, the handles work several different functions each which makes it hard to make one adjustment without changing another one. It's heavy and the ballhead is very stiff. I would not reccomend it for birding. Zeiss is doing a diservice to offer this one.
Good Luck Kanit

Andy1 said:

I agree, it does appear to be a Zeiss US thing, but perhaps it will be coming to your side of the ocean as well. The other US Zeiss retailer that I had located that offers the "free" tripod with the scope purchase is Cabelas. The tripod they offer is the Savage ballhead model also.

I just have to wonder why Zeiss is doing this, other than the obvious reason of increased profits. Presumably, the tripod is offered as an additional incentive to purchase the Zeiss instead of one of the other high quality scopes on the market. As a scope buyer, if I am going to purchase a premium scope like the Zeiss, I surely don't want to mount it on a cheap, unknown tripod, manufactured by an unknown company with no track record that in the end, will only frustrate me during field use.

Click to expand...

Zeiss U.S. have a certain amount of autonomy over Zeiss in Europe and can choose their own supplier for 'pods/heads. It's probably a decision based upon the particular market supplied so it's not necessarily going to apply to the U.K/Europe market.

It's still a bad move by Zeiss U.S. to use an obscure manufacturer instead of a renowned company like Manfrotto, who are totally dominant in the Euro birding market.... Swarovski tried this and designed in-house instead of using Manfrotto for their 'birding head', and the results were predictable.

It has to be said, very few people I know of have ever purchased a manufacturers package of 'pod and scope. You generally pay a premium to just have the scope's manufacturers name on the 'pod and you are restricted to one or two models.

I'd never advise buying a package like this, even if it was a rebadged Manfrotto. Buy the scope, then look around for some decent support that suits you. Certainly in the U.K., the company selling will often do a discount on any support purchased with the scope.


regards,
Andy

Manfrotto tripod with zeiss scope

I bought my zeiss 85t FL from Cabelas less than a month ago and it came with the monfrotto. It did say the savage was tripod I was supposed to get but maybe I just lucked out. B

Advice Sought on Proposed Solution to Zeiss Diascope (Savage Tripod Problem)

Kanit said:

Hi Andy,
I'm new to the forum but I was researching Savage tripods and found this forum with your question so I had to answer you. I just got a Savage ballhead tripod with a kit purchase from b&h photo with a Kowa scope. I love the scope TSN 821 with 20x-60x zoom eyepice but I do not like the tripod. Fortunately for me, b&h sent me the wrong tripod so I get to return it. The ballhead is not very moveable, the handles work several different functions each which makes it hard to make one adjustment without changing another one. It's heavy and the ballhead is very stiff. I would not reccomend it for birding. Zeiss is doing a diservice to offer this one.
Good Luck Kanit

Click to expand...

Kanit/Birdforum people: I am thinking of buying a Zeiss 85mm Diascope. The price for the package including the 85mm scope, the 20x60 zoom lense and the problematic savage tripod is actually $10 LOWER than if I the best price if I buy the lens and scope separately with no tripod. I would then need to spend $200 or $300 to get a basic 5.5 lbs 700RC2 aluminum legs tripod from manfrotto (see below).

I do not plan to do any digiscoping and due to some lower back issues want the lightest tripod without going to expensive carbon fiber. I don't intend to hike long distances with the scope (say one mile or less)

As the Zeiss scope only weighs just over 3 lbs I am focussing on the lighter tripods (which support 5.5 lbs). I am very tall 2.0m (78 in) so I am buying an angled diascope and am hoping that the 57" maximum height including center pole will work for me (see below).

As I'm already pushing the budget pretty hard, I thought I might try the following. 1) Buy the Zeiss package. 2) Keep the Savage tripod legs but remove the Savage Ballhead 3) Buy a Manfrotto 700RC2 Fluid head for $90 and install it on the savage legs. Then at some future time when my budget recovers buy Manfrotto legs.

This plan will save me $140.00 since I will buy just the head.

QUESTION 1: Will My Substitution Plan Work? Can I remove the savage ball head and screw on a Manfrotto 700RC2 fluid head. I know nothing about tripods.

QUESTION 2: Is my plan advisable? Obvious other choices are a) just use the savage tripod (I know it will attach correctly at least) or b) spend the additional $150 on the manfrotto legs right now by buying a manfrotto package.

QUESTION 3: What maximum height do I need with an angled scope for a 2.0m/78" guy? Is 47" unextended/ 57" extended enough? Or do I need a taller tripod (and the additional weight).

Thanks much (need to resolve this soon so i can get the scope ahead of aplanned trip to lower rio grande valley in October)
John Berner

bernerjc said:

Kanit/Birdforum people: I am thinking of buying a Zeiss 85mm Diascope. The price for the package including the 85mm scope, the 20x60 zoom lense and the problematic savage tripod is actually $10 LOWER than if I the best price if I buy the lens and scope separately with no tripod. I would then need to spend $200 or $300 to get a basic 5.5 lbs 700RC2 aluminum legs tripod from manfrotto (see below).

I do not plan to do any digiscoping and due to some lower back issues want the lightest tripod without going to expensive carbon fiber. I don't intend to hike long distances with the scope (say one mile or less)

As the Zeiss scope only weighs just over 3 lbs I am focussing on the lighter tripods (which support 5.5 lbs). I am very tall 2.0m (78 in) so I am buying an angled diascope and am hoping that the 57" maximum height including center pole will work for me (see below).

As I'm already pushing the budget pretty hard, I thought I might try the following. 1) Buy the Zeiss package. 2) Keep the Savage tripod legs but remove the Savage Ballhead 3) Buy a Manfrotto 700RC2 Fluid head for $90 and install it on the savage legs. Then at some future time when my budget recovers buy Manfrotto legs.

This plan will save me $140.00 since I will buy just the head.

QUESTION 1: Will My Substitution Plan Work? Can I remove the savage ball head and screw on a Manfrotto 700RC2 fluid head. I know nothing about tripods.

QUESTION 2: Is my plan advisable? Obvious other choices are a) just use the savage tripod (I know it will attach correctly at least) or b) spend the additional $150 on the manfrotto legs right now by buying a manfrotto package.

QUESTION 3: What maximum height do I need with an angled scope for a 2.0m/78" guy? Is 47" unextended/ 57" extended enough? Or do I need a taller tripod (and the additional weight).

Thanks much (need to resolve this soon so i can get the scope ahead of aplanned trip to lower rio grande valley in October)
John Berner

Click to expand...

Hi John,

First of all .... you're going to need a taller tripod.You want one that extends closer to 70" .... like a Bogen 3011 or 3021. I'm 76" tall and use a 3021 for scoping and photography .... it's perfect. Though a tripod is most stable when you don't use a fully extended center column, these are a good compromise because the larger tripods are quite heavy .... and expensive. With your budget .... forget ball heads... and the cheaper ones are a waste of money. A fluid head would be good.... a Bogen 3126 would be a reasonable choice if you only need it for scoping.... not photography. By B&H prices .... that's about $210 .... and will last you a long time. There is the 3130 with the QR plates also..... but I've heard of many photographers complaining about them because they loosen in time. You get what you pay for here as always.

The 700RC2 head, well .... your scope weighs close to 4 lbs., the head is rated for only 5.5 lbs. I wouldn't use a head with such a small capacity for your scope. The 8.8 lb. capacity of the 3126 would be better.

For the most part ..... I'd never recommend these packages of scope,pod and head offered by retailers.... unless it is exactly what you want ..... which never happens because they almost always put on a junk head.... and sometimes they're not removeable.

Spend the money now ...... or you'll just spend more later getting what you needed in the first place.

For a perspective on how to buy tripods and heads for the very best of equiptment ... see this article :http://www.bythom.com/support.htm
No.... we don't all need carbon fiber legs and $400 heads with quick release.... but the principle is the same. Again ..... spend it now ..... or spend even more later.

Good luck! Garth

Zeiss tripod

bernerjc said:

Kanit/Birdforum people: I am thinking of buying a Zeiss 85mm Diascope. The price for the package including the 85mm scope, the 20x60 zoom lense and the problematic savage tripod is actually $10 LOWER than if I the best price if I buy the lens and scope separately with no tripod. I would then need to spend $200 or $300 to get a basic 5.5 lbs 700RC2 aluminum legs tripod from manfrotto (see below).

I do not plan to do any digiscoping and due to some lower back issues want the lightest tripod without going to expensive carbon fiber. I don't intend to hike long distances with the scope (say one mile or less)

As the Zeiss scope only weighs just over 3 lbs I am focussing on the lighter tripods (which support 5.5 lbs). I am very tall 2.0m (78 in) so I am buying an angled diascope and am hoping that the 57" maximum height including center pole will work for me (see below).

As I'm already pushing the budget pretty hard, I thought I might try the following. 1) Buy the Zeiss package. 2) Keep the Savage tripod legs but remove the Savage Ballhead 3) Buy a Manfrotto 700RC2 Fluid head for $90 and install it on the savage legs. Then at some future time when my budget recovers buy Manfrotto legs.

This plan will save me $140.00 since I will buy just the head.

QUESTION 1: Will My Substitution Plan Work? Can I remove the savage ball head and screw on a Manfrotto 700RC2 fluid head. I know nothing about tripods.

QUESTION 2: Is my plan advisable? Obvious other choices are a) just use the savage tripod (I know it will attach correctly at least) or b) spend the additional $150 on the manfrotto legs right now by buying a manfrotto package.

QUESTION 3: What maximum height do I need with an angled scope for a 2.0m/78" guy? Is 47" unextended/ 57" extended enough? Or do I need a taller tripod (and the additional weight).

Thanks much (need to resolve this soon so i can get the scope ahead of aplanned trip to lower rio grande valley in October)
John Berner

Click to expand...

John:

Like some else on this thread I recently bought a Diascope 85 from Cabelas and I did receive the Savage pod. I'm new to scopes, but I think that the pod and head provide a very stable platform (more about that below) and it pans and tilts smoothly. The quick-release is massive and locks down securely. There is a small bit of play in the tilt mechanism which causes the eyepiece to "notch" down after locking it down, but a little practice teaches you to lock down on the image a little high, so that it then centers when you release the tilt handle.

I feel however that the pod is in fact too massive. The head and legs weigh in at 9 lbs, without the scope! Pretty sure that I don't want to lug that monster around too far off the beaten track. It would be perfect as a semi permanent installation on the deck of a cottage overlooking a lake... but now that I've bought the scope, I'll never be able to afford the cottage...

Instead I've gotten a much more portable Manfrotto 718B, which fits nicely in a suitcase, extends to 65 inches and weighs 3 lbs. It is not as rock solid as the Savage, but it won't have to remain on the deck I don't own. It does give a reasonably steady platform for viewing. I'm off this weekend to the Outer Banks of NC and should have some good opportunities to test it out.

The Savage legs might work ok with another head. Since the Savage head is about 3 lbs, there may be an opportunity to lighten up that beast by switching to another fluid head or ball head. But the 3 section legs of the Savage are not as easily packable when you have to fly.

I'll post something after I return about how this lighter pod worked out.

I would suggest checking out another web site which is offering the Dynascope with Manfrotto legs and a 3130 head, hard case and window mount at what looks like a good price, but as others have warned -- best to make sure its a pod you want. See http://www.bearbasin.com/spotting.htm