confused about tripod head types for birding scope (4 Viewers)

[kylie-bird]

I’m so confused about types of tripod head. The more I read, the more confused I get because it seems like there is overlap or inconsistency in names of types. One article lists all these as different types: Pan/tilt, two-way, three-way, video, fluid, ball, pistol grip, gimbal – but some of these seem to be the same thing??
Other things refer to 3-way pan, fluid video, 3-way video, centre ball, lever ball, ball with 3 independent controls, Hybrid Photo-Video Head…

I’m planning to get Celestron Regal M2 80ED 20-60x scope for birding at wetlands & beaches and now looking for suitable tripod.

I read that “Ball heads are not good for large lenses. A ball head effectively allows the lens to tilt in any direction, and this makes it very difficult to keep a large, heavy lens stable” and that, “biggest problem with ball heads is that they aren’t very precise when it comes to adjusting their position. When you unlock the ball, you’re moving it around completely and not just on one angle or plane.”

Is this still true of ball heads with 3 independent controls? Are they inherintly less stable? Should I definitely avoid ball head even if it has 2 or 3 independent controls and a handle? Is a handle essential or recommended? Is it worth getting a Manfrotto Befree 3-Way Live with 3-way fluid video head with 2 foldable handles, even though its heavier?

I appreciate any advice but recommending specific models & brands is not so helpful as here in Australia many are not available and the prices are about 3x what they are in USA, so I can't afford the good ones

 

[Jkloz]

You want a “fluid head” and there is alot to choose from . Manfretto and Sirui are considered good ones and there is lots of info in the forum on them .

 

[Jkloz]

You want a “fluid head” and there is alot to choose from . Manfretto and Sirui are considered good ones and there is lots of info in the forum on them .

The ball heads ,pan and tilt and pistol grip can lead to serious damage real quick if you forget to lock the head everytime .

 

[Hermann]

Get a decent video head. Everything else doesn't work nearly as well. Manfrotto 500AH for instance would be a good choice. Or a Gitzo. Or a Sirui. Or a Berlebach.

BTW, I personally use my video heads without any handles. No handles = less hassle. And with a decent video head you don't really need a handle IMO.

Hermann

 

[Hermann]

I’m planning to get Celestron Regal M2 80ED 20-60x scope for birding at wetlands & beaches and now looking for suitable tripod.

Not the topic of this thread ... But are you sure about the Celestron? If I were to switch scopes, I'd get a Nikon Monarch, either the 60 or the 82. Or a Swaro ATS. But not a Celestron.

Hermann

 

[Jim M.]

Most of the heads available are unnecessarily heavy for birding purposes--they are designed for other uses. Unless you are digiscoping, I don't see why you would need a fluid head. If you can get something cheaper/lighter that suits your needs, I'd go for it instead. I use this, though it might be discontinued now: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...7q_bk_3_Way_Aluminum_Black_Quick_Release.html It's big advantages are low weight, low cost (used to be cheaper though), and that it has a single handle that locks/unlocks the position in every direction by tightening/loosening it. Helps you get on a bird much faster than having to loosen/tighten two different nuts (for pan and tilt) to change position.

 

[Peregrine Took]

Don't get sucked into thinking you necessarily need a 'true' fluid head for birding. A 'true' fluid head has a recoil, meaning that it returns gently and smoothly to a set position after being tilted. My opinion (FWIW) is that this is of no practical use unless you are doing video (which I don't). Fluid heads are also often referred to as video heads.

Examples of true fluid heads, commonly used by birders, are the Sirui VA-5 and the Manfrotto MVH500AH. Another popular, but quite expensive, head is the Gitzo GH2720QR, which although often described as a fluid head, is actually just a two-way head that has pan and tilt controlled from a single kn0b. The latter is what I use.

Another thing to look out for is that some fluid heads do not lock tight when fully adjusted (Gitzo GHF2W), so your scope may flop around in transit, for instance when attached to a tripod and being carried over a shoulder.

The BeFree head you mentioned is not beefy enough for an 80mm scope.
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[Jkloz]

Fluid heads are also often referred to as video heads.

Im one of these —- the sirui VA-5 would be my choice since it appears less bulky than the Manfreddo 500’s —— do not buy the ‘ i footage k5 ‘ which i currently use , its a spring loaded fluid head thats doesnt have very good construction and absolutly no customer support . ……. Hermann - that was discussed in a different thread . We would all love to start with an alpha including me .

 

[kylie-bird]

Not the topic of this thread ... But are you sure about the Celestron? If I were to switch scopes, I'd get a Nikon Monarch, either the 60 or the 82. Or a Swaro ATS. But not a Celestron.

Hermann

The Nikon would be nice but it's twice the price and for the price difference I could go on a couple of extra interstate trips. A Swaro is at least double that again - the equivalent of a birding trip to the other side of the world. I'd rather spend 2 weeks looking at birds in Panama than see my local shore birds a bit clearer

 

[chill6x6]

Personally, I hate a ball head. I have two and I can't stand them. They are so much more fiddly to use vs. a 2-way fluid head. I have had good luck with the Gitzo GHF2W and Leofoto's BV-10 2-way fluid heads. I actually believe I prefer the BV-10 as it's a little smoother when panning. Leofoto makes good tripods that aren't too expensive as well. If those aren't available or too expensive I don't see why the Manfrotto XPRO two-way head wouldn't work with 290 tripod legs As far as scopes go....I'd look into an Opticron MM4 77mm GA ED. It's a nice scope for the money. There is a dealer in Australia that might help you with everything...

Binocular Sales — Ornithological Technical Services

 

[kylie-bird]

Don't get sucked into thinking you necessarily need a 'true' fluid head for birding. A 'true' fluid head has a recoil, meaning that it returns gently and smoothly to a set position after being tilted. My opinion (FWIW) is that this is of no practical use unless you are doing video (which I don't). Fluid heads are also often referred to as video heads.

Examples of true fluid heads, commonly used by birders, are the Sirui VA-5 and the Manfrotto MVH500AH. Another popular, but quite expensive, head is the Gitzo GH2720QR, which although often described as a fluid head, is actually just a two-way head that has pan and tilt controlled from a single kn0b. The latter is what I use.

Another thing to look out for is that some fluid heads do not lock tight when fully adjusted (Gitzo GHF2W), so your scope may flop around in transit, for instance when attached to a tripod and being carried over a shoulder.

The BeFree head you mentioned is not beefy enough for an 80mm scope.
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When you say that Befree head isn't beefy enough are you talking about max load or something else? The Befree 3-way Live Head can take 6kg which is more than the ones you suggested

The Manfrotto video heads have payload of only 4kg and I read that "Ideally your tripod should hold 2.5-3 times the weight of your tripod head, spotting scope with eye piece and any other attachments" so for a 1.6kg scope I thought 4kg payload a bit low.

I found a Sirui T-024SK Carbon Fibre Tripod with VA-5 Video Head but it's max load is 3kg. Otherwise it sounds good & within budget


So now I'm really confused

 

[Peregrine Took]

When you say that Befree head isn't beefy enough are you talking about max load or something else? The Befree 3-way Live Head can take 6kg which is more than the ones you suggested.

I thought you meant the one below, BeFree Live 2-way head. The Befree Live 3-way head is not what you want for birding regardless of safe payload... you want a 2-way head, unless you enjoy fiddling with levers/arms. Regards payload, don't forget a scope isn't like a camera; a scope exerts more leverage on a head, plus the base diameter of the BeFree's is only 46mm... I'd say the Sirui VA-5, at 48mm, is the minimum for an 80mm scope.

 

[wllmspd]

The Befree live is not good for scopes much bigger than the average 50mm. I use it for my Opticron 60mm4 (1kg), which is fine, though a little flexible, I hold the handle and the scope body, works in moderate breezes. I added some tactile tape to the rail locking screw so I know which one NOT to (un)lock when looking through the scope.

The mvh500ah is a heavy block, works fine for my optics upto 4kg or more, though I always lock the altitude to avoid any accidents. Some of the other heads noted will work for a larger scope, but with a set of legs that won’t result in the tripod being the dominate mass you are carrying. I see plenty of manfrotto 290 around the place.

Peter

 

[Peregrine Took]

The worst feature of the BeFree live heads is that the pan kn0b is also used to lock the scope when attaching it to the tripod base. If there is a locking screw on the underside of the base (as with many Manfrotto's), fine, but if not there is always that feeling that the whole head can come loose when panning.
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[kylie-bird]

...Regards payload, don't forget a scope isn't like a camera; a scope exerts more leverage on a head...

If a scope exerts more leverage, how does that relate to payload please? Does that mean I need one with an even greater payload?

 

[Peregrine Took]

If a scope exerts more leverage, how does that relate to payload please? Does that mean I need one with an even greater payload?

No. It means you might consider leverage as well as downward force. Just to add to your confusion.

But seriously, forget leverage and buy any two-way fluid/video head that is rated from about 3kg upwards and with base diameter of more than 46mm, and you'll have a sturdy base for your scope. Plenty of good suggestions so far - stick with one of these recommendations, according to budget, and you won't go wrong.

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[Jkloz]

You will probably want to buy a 4” or 6” balancing plate or find a tripod head that already has one . So that the scope will balance on top of the tripod head properly .

 

[Bill Atwood]

The Nikon would be nice but it's twice the price and for the price difference I could go on a couple of extra interstate trips. A Swaro is at least double that again - the equivalent of a birding trip to the other side of the world. I'd rather spend 2 weeks looking at birds in Panama than see my local shore birds a bit clearer

Have you used the Celestron?

 

[kylie-bird]

Thanks everyone!

 

[Jkloz]

Have you used the Celestron?

I have for almost two years now . It was highly recommended by b-h and optics4 birding as an entry level scope . Its has good optics right out of the box with an eyepiece the doesnt go soft at high magnification which i found in other mid level scopes . But the Regal really gets much better when you replace the factory zoom with a Baader -hyperion zoom (and also high quality fixed eps) . The build quality is very good (magnesium) the one weak point i have seen is where the eyepiece meets the body ,which probably isnt that big of a deal if your using the proper tripod head.