Just got an A620. Eeek! (1 Viewer)

I sent my Canon A95 in for repair under warranty two months ago. Today I got a phone call: Canon have replaced it (that's the good news). The bad news is ... they gave me an A620!

The only use I have for this camera is digiscoping. (I have a pair of 20Ds for other work). I understand from reading threads here that the A620 is no good for digiscoping because it vignettes a lot. Also, the bloody thing uses those stupid SD cards. I have over $1000 worth of proper Compact Flash cards, and they are useless to me with this camera.


Should I:

A: Send it back and insist that they give me an A95 like the one I paid for?

B: Try it out and maybe it will be OK as a digscoping camera after all?

C: Sell it, and use the money to buy a second-hand A95?

Hi Tannin.

I have an A95 and it works well as you know from experience. The CF cards don't they also work in the 20D, in which case they are not wasted.

As for the A620, my son just purchased one and the vignetting problems that Iporali reported have not materialised. We tried the camera out handheld on my son's Opticron and on my TSN4 and it worked well at a variety of zooms and the camera in my view was no worse than the A95. It was better in that it worked faster, much better lcd taking advantage of the increase in Mp. The fact that it can go upto 4x mag in my view can give you another dimension when digiscoping.

I honestly believe this to be the bestcamera now for digiscoping. As for an adaptor then you can use something like the Baader which fixes to the scope eyepiece or if you have a Swaro their adapter, likewise Zeiss etc. My son is actually getting an alignment collar/adapter made.

Try the camera for yourself and let us know.

Thanks Robert. I will pick it up today and have a look at it at least before I decide what to do. I'll have to see just how much faster it is, how badly it vignettes, and whether I can attach it to my scope adaptor without buying even more kit. (A Swarovski DCA.) Having 4X mag is definately a drawback: My old Coolpixes had 4X and that was too much. The 3X of the A95 was perfect. (I wonder if there is a way to switch off the last part of the zoom range, which seems to be the part that produces the lens extension problems. Probably not.) Also have to buy an SD card if I decide to keep it - and a decent-sized flash card costs around half as much as the camera does!.

At this stage, I'm leaning towards trying it out before deciding whether to sell it and buy a second-hand A95 or not. But thankyou for the encouragement, I'm feeling a little better about it now. Time for me to fly into the shower, get dressed, and pick it up on my way to work.

PS: faster would be really, really nice! After using my 20Ds, the P&S cameras feel soooo sluggish.

Hi Tannin

Before you jump to any conclusions about the A620 that you have read from other threads, my advice is to try it for your self and then make your own mind up. For me this camera works as good as any others on the market, as a birder first and photographer second this camera does what I want it to do.

It is just a case of keeping the camera held squarely to the eyepiece to achieve the best results. For me, I want some sort of adapter so I can use both hands to focus the scope on the object.

These are some of my early shots which were hand held, I think they were all at 4x can't quite remember.

Tannin

You can use the camera at 3x. You need to take the zoom all the way out and then click it back once to get it 3x.

Thankyou Paul and Robert. Your advice is helping a lot.

I picked the camera up earlier today and its not an A620, it's an A610. I'm not too fussed about that as I believe the only major difference is that it's 5MP instead of 7MP. (But I haven't looked at the specs yet to confirm that.) With a sensor so small, I doubt that the extra 2MP will make any difference.

That was the good news. The bad news is that the threaded plastic adaptor you have to buy from Canon (or a 3rd party) to attach the camera to a thread so that it screws onto your scope adaptor is a different size! In order to try it out, I have to buy yet another adaptor - they are about $40AU, and no-one ever has them in stock, so the earliest I could reasonably hope to get one is mid January when the shops open again.

I am very reluctant to spend that money just to see if it works or not. On the other hand, the camera did come with a tiny little 32MB SD card, petty useless for real work, but just fine so far as being able to take test shots goes. I don't need to buy an SD card (I'd go for 1 or 2GB) until I know it will work for me.

I'm sure it's a great little general-purpose camera. We don't really bother with Christmas in my family, but I'm trying to think if I know anyone who I could give it to as a present.

Guess I'll try to get a rough idea of its merits by hand-holding it to the scope tonight before I decide whether to sell it, give it away, or take the plunge and buy an adaptor for it. Seeing as I have never taken any hand-held digiscoping shots before, I don't know how much that will teach me.

PS: what sort of idiot am I? Just today I blew over $1000 on a 60mm macro lens and assorted accessories for my SLR, all without a moment's hesitation, and here I am stressing out over $40 for a bit of plastic. The EF-S 60mm is, as I have come to expect from expensive Canon gear, simply superb. Can't wait to try it out in real life, not just the back yard!

Hi Tannin,

Your experience has highlighted what may be the beginning of a disturbing trend. And that is that Canon seem to be doing everything in their power to lose their existing user-base.

The PowerShot "S" series (of which I have the S60) has always used Compact Flash cards and have all had the option of saving files in RAW format if desired. I now see that the latest in the series, the new S80, has eschewed CF and introduced Secure Digital cards for its file storage. And it no longer incorporates RAW file capture.

In the case of the A610, as you mentioned, Canon have also moved over to SD cards. As there surely cannot be anything intrinsically inferior about the CF format (as Canon use it in their high-end SLRs) one can only wonder at the reasons behind this.

A large proportion of a company's future sales come from loyal devotees upgrading to the latest model. As you point out, many of these potential upgraders will now be deterred from doing so due to their substantial investment in CF cards, which will suddenly become worthless. On the other hand, I don't see Canon attracting too many new customers due solely to the fact that they now use SD cards. So one can only draw the conclusion that this is a ploy to deliberately try and sabotage the company and hand the baton to the opposition.

Similarly, with the decision to drop RAW file capture with the new "S" series, Canon is handing over a large group of upgraders to Olympus, who, to my knowledge, are the only company making a compact camera with similar specs to the (in particular) PowerShot S70.

Unfortunately, Tony, none of this is helping you with your A95/A610 dilemma but it is certainly helping me to have a bit of a rant and to dissipate some of the frustration caused by Canon's recent insanity with regard to the direction they are taking with their compact digital cameras.

If the A610 proves not to be suitable and the A95 is not readily available, do you have any ideas about what other replacement might be suitable?

I just did a search on the dpreview.com site for:

• 5 Mp or more
• Manual focus
• Aperture priority
• Shutter priority
• Compact Flash

and it came back with only 4 cameras:

1. Casio QV-5700
2. Nikon Coolpix 5400
3. Canon PowerShot S60
4. Canon PowerShot A95

The Casio was first manufactured in 2002 and the Nikon in 2003, so that really only leaves two; your (recently expired) camera and my current camera, with nowhere to go.

Recurvirostra said:

Your experience has highlighted what may be the beginning of a disturbing trend. And that is that Canon seem to be doing everything in their power to lose their existing user-base.

Click to expand...

Hi John,

I agree that it is unfortunate that Canon is dropping RAW but I really can't think the memory card format would be THAT big an issue. CF cards may be theoretically faster (because they have more pins) than the SDs, but they are larger, consume more energy and are mechanically "less fool-proof" (well, I have heard that someone has bent CF-connector-pins). If the new large cards are relatively inexpensive, people buy them. And to be honest, I am afraid that Canon simply was aware about how few people ever used/needed RAW.

Actually Canon has had (still have?) a marvellous camera fulfilling all the criteria you listed: the G6. But as we know, it does not work well in digiscoping except with LER eyepieces - and it also shows what in my opinion is *the* biggest problem with potential digiscoping cameras: too long lens. IMHO the Canon A6X0 would be a great & versatile digiscoping camera if it had a 3x zoom, even without RAW and CF.


Robert - Yes, I (and some others even more than I ) have warned about vignetting problems with the A620 - and I am afraid that with most eyepieces & adapters you do have to choose from two less-than-perfect options:
1) you fix the camera at the distance where the zoom can extend maximally -> you get vignetting at all other zoom powers except at 4x.
2) you fix the camera at the distance where you can use the zoom from 1-2.5x (3x) -> you may risk damaging the zooming mechanism if/when the lens accidentally hits the eyepiece.

Paul - your digiscoping looks excellent and I am very interested in hearing about your experiences with the adapter collar. As I have said earlier, the A620 is still on my shortlist.

Regards,

Ilkka

iporali said:

Hi John,

I agree that it is unfortunate that Canon is dropping RAW but I really can't think the memory card format would be THAT big an issue. CF cards may be theoretically faster (because they have more pins) than the SDs, but they are larger, consume more energy and are mechanically "less fool-proof" (well, I have heard that someone has bent CF-connector-pins). If the new large cards are relatively inexpensive, people buy them. And to be honest, I am afraid that Canon simply was aware about how few people ever used/needed RAW.

Actually Canon has had (still have?) a marvellous camera fulfilling all the criteria you listed: the G6. But as we know, it does not work well in digiscoping except with LER eyepieces - and it also shows what in my opinion is *the* biggest problem with potential digiscoping cameras: too long lens. IMHO the Canon A6X0 would be a great & versatile digiscoping camera if it had a 3x zoom, even without RAW and CF.


Robert - Yes, I (and some others even more than I ) have warned about vignetting problems with the A620 - and I am afraid that with most eyepieces & adapters you do have to choose from two less-than-perfect options:
1) you fix the camera at the distance where the zoom can extend maximally -> you get vignetting at all other zoom powers except at 4x.
2) you fix the camera at the distance where you can use the zoom from 1-2.5x (3x) -> you may risk damaging the zooming mechanism if/when the lens accidentally hits the eyepiece.

Paul - your digiscoping looks excellent and I am very interested in hearing about your experiences with the adapter collar. As I have said earlier, the A620 is still on my shortlist.

Regards,

Ilkka

Click to expand...

All,

I've just broken down and bought an A620 w/ the plastic adaptor collar. The collar works great for handholding the camera to my Zeiss 85T*Fl w/ the 20-60X zoom lens. To make it more snug, I taped some velcro along the inside of the collar just below the outer threads (just the hooky side). Now the collar fits snug enough to hold the camera in place w/o handholding (probably not advisable, though).

Vignetting? - yes, it is a problem w/ the Zeiss. I have found 2 positions w/ minimal vignetting, though.
(1) With the lens at 20X place the camera/collar over the lens and zoom up to ~3X (no more). If you zoom to 4X you get vignetting, and the camera lens tends to crash into eyepiece lens (and, if the collar is snug, the camera senses the pressure and shuts itself off).
(2) With the zoom eyepiece at 60X attach the camera and collar to the lens with the camera at its lowest zoom setting (28mm). This will give an image w/ only about 2% edge vignetting. If you try to zoom the vignetting gets worse.
I can't comment how the camera works w/ the 30mm wide angle eyepiece (anyone?).

As for the camera itself? - I love it. Startup time is fast. The new DigicII sensor makes autofocusing fast, and you can fire off 10 images at better than 1-2fps. Lag time for storage of multiple images is only a few seconds (much much quicker than the Coolpix 990). You can also flip the top dial to movie mode and shoot a movie at 640X480 as long as you have memory.

I've taped velcro to the outside edge of the flip-out viewing screen, and can attach a jewelers loop (taped w/ black electrical tape and velcro) so that I can see the screen in bright sunlight. It works well, and I can still flip the viewer closed.

I'm still waiting for some sunny weather to try the camera/scope setup on some close-up birds, but it performed very well at -20ºF and blowing wind on some Bufflehead shot this past weekend.

I'll post a more comprehensive review as soon as I have some images to post.

So far though, the jury is out. The camera itself is great, but I have to decide if the vignetting problem can be lived with.

Jerry

Hi Jerry and Iporali

As for the A620, the big issue here is the question of vignetting. With my son's scope and mine listed in my first post, we had no problem hand holding at 3x or 4x, ie no vignetting.

Jerry you talk of using the camera with the plastic adaptor collar, I take it you mean the one from Canon that screws into the lens base. I have one of those with my A95 and have never used as I found it be useless. With the A95 I have an alignment collar/adaptor supplied by SRB film, www.srbfilm.co.uk This works very well. My son is getting one made for his A620 and I believe this will also work fine. Have a look on their website under digiscoping to see how it comes together.

If when you are zooming and go to 4x and the lens hits the eyepiece it is clearly to close this is wy you need a purpose made adaptor that fits the camera lens and eyepiece not that supplied by Canon.

The camera is better than the A95 of that there is no doubt.

jourdaj said:

I've just broken down and bought an A620 w/ the plastic adaptor collar...

(2) With the zoom eyepiece at 60X attach the camera and collar to the lens with the camera at its lowest zoom setting (28mm). This will give an image w/ only about 2% edge vignetting. If you try to zoom the vignetting gets worse.

Click to expand...

Jerry,

I think you will find that the minimum focal length of the A620 is 35mm.

Recurvirostra said:

Jerry,

I think you will find that the minimum focal length of the A620 is 35mm.

Click to expand...

I stand corrected! Thanks!

Merry Christmas everyone

Ilkka I will be contacting SRB in the week about my adapter/collar so I will keep you posted about any progress.

PS. thanks for the coments about the pictures

Paul

Took these pictures today just having a muck around with the camera, still hand holding for the time being although some are with the release cable. They are at various zooms the lowest probably about 2x. No vignetting though!

Paul,

The pictures look promising. What combination of scope eyepiece are you using? I just got my A620 yesterday so I am still finding my way around. A quick go at hand holding with my 90mm scope and both zoom and fixed eyepieces result in quite a lot of vignetting - I could just get rid of the vignetting - probably around x2 zoom, but found it very difficult to position the camera to the eyepiece.

On the settings, macro seemed to be the best.

If you can identify the scope and eyepiece I will look up the specifications and see how they look against mine, then, assuming there's a difference, maybe look for a eyepiece which is closer.

Seems likely that its the scope/eyepiece combination. I have been doing some reading on eyepiece factors ((http://observers.org/beginner/eyepieces.freeman.html) and this suggests that you can get very different results based on the properties of the eyepiece you are using.

Also at the first look, the camera is very good - in all aspects - if I can only find a way to get it into the scope!

regards

Mel

Paul Jarvis said:

Took these pictures today just having a muck around with the camera, still hand holding for the time being although some are with the release cable. They are at various zooms the lowest probably about 2x. No vignetting though!

Click to expand...

Mel

My scope is the Opticron ES80 ED with the SDL zoom eyepiece. I find the eyepiece helps because it has a wide viewing glass 22mm to be precise and the camera is 19mm.

All the pictures were taken on the auto setting on the camera and the eyepiece at 20x although as you may know it takes more than one click to get a good picture.

This tip may work for you depending on your eyepiece if it is similar to mine - unscrew the eye relief cup up to act as an alignment collar (helps cut out the vignetting), also gives you the perfect distance between the camera lens and the eyepiece at which ever mag you choose. I found 3x to be the best but other mags work well even 4x, just depends on the distance to the object.

Hope this helps with your quest Mel. Can you tell what scope you have with 90mm please?

Regards Paul

Paul,

Thanks for the information, I managed to find some detail on that eye piece Spec of the Opticron SDL zoom eyepiece Eyerelief: 27~22mm, Eyelens dia: 26mm, Length: 68mm, Weight: 246g

Now I just have to find it on mine, will let you know the outcome.

My 90mm scope is a Meade ETX90EC - they did a spotting scope version of their Astro telescope - its basically the same tube taken out of the astro mount. I am using it as a low cost option to a spotting scope - its about 1.25KG, 90mm and a focal length of 1350mm, and cost me £150!

One good thing about astro eye pieces is that they are lower cost than birding ones - there maybe a good reason for that - but a digital photo friendly zoom eyepiece 24mm-7mm cost about £95. So if I can make this work then its worth it.

As it has prime focus and a back focus I can, in theory, either use a point and shoot through the eyepiece in the prime focus or bolt my D20 to the rear of the scope, using it as a long lens. With enough light, and you need good light, this works fine. But as the scope is f11 you do need lots of light.

This shot of a Bittern is the D20 on the back of the Meade (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/75686/sort/1/cat/500/page/1)

Have not got any point and shoot examples with the meade yet as I have not had a effective camera.

I also have a Yukon - strange plastic 100mm scope that I got in Poland for looking out of my window across the channel.

Have some, very few, successful examples with the Olympus C40z hand held on the Yukon (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/65910/sort/1/cat/500/page/1)

I think that a problem is that the eye pieces for the meade are really astro eye pieces, so the lowest magnification I currently have is 63x - I am interested in both bird photography and astro, so was trying to find a scope that could do both.

I am going to investigate eye pieces around the 30x with, if possible, numbers close to your SDL, known to work with the A620.

After a couple of days playing with the A620 it looks like a great little camera, if only I can find a way to get it into a scope.

I guess my plan B is to get a Opticron and a SDL.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

Happy birding

Mel

Paul Jarvis said:

Mel

My scope is the Opticron ES80 ED with the SDL zoom eyepiece. I find the eyepiece helps because it has a wide viewing glass 22mm to be precise and the camera is 19mm.

All the pictures were taken on the auto setting on the camera and the eyepiece at 20x although as you may know it takes more than one click to get a good picture.

This tip may work for you depending on your eyepiece if it is similar to mine - unscrew the eye relief cup up to act as an alignment collar (helps cut out the vignetting), also gives you the perfect distance between the camera lens and the eyepiece at which ever mag you choose. I found 3x to be the best but other mags work well even 4x, just depends on the distance to the object.

Hope this helps with your quest Mel. Can you tell what scope you have with 90mm please?

Regards Paul

Click to expand...

Hi Mel Excuse me for butting in. Should point out that the eyepiece mag needs to down at 20x or less.

Paul Jarvis said:

Took these pictures today just having a muck around with the camera, still hand holding for the time being although some are with the release cable.

Click to expand...

Paul,

What release cable are you using? Canon used to supply one with some cameras (e.g. Power Shot G2), but I don't see one listed as an accessory with the A620.

Jonathan

Excuse me for butting in. You have to buy an adapter into which the release cable threaded end screws. See www.pennineonline.c.uk.