And another (yawn...) SFL 8x30 thread/question... (1 Viewer)

[MiddleRiver]

I already own SFL 8x40's. I purchased them for 'travel' in order to lighten daypack load (regular binos of choice are NV 8X).

I like the SFL40's a lot. Not as good as NV's but otherwise no issues. Note that I wear specs, so eye-box comfort is important (large occular, decent ER). I'd love the Leica look but ER on UV8x32 has me skittish...

I've caught myself thinking 'in for a dime, in for a dollar...' and if I'm going to go 'light', why not the 8x30's? I'd save a little weight penalty and the 40's are frankly not THAT compact (yes, sometimes shoulder bag or daypack gets crowded with rain-gear, camera gear, guides, food...).

QUESTION:
Has anyone gone from 8x40 to 8x30 in SFLs and regretted it or deemed them insufficient for an international birding trip (e.g. tropical etc.).

PS I know a lot has been covered in other threads but really hoping to hear from someone who has - literally - gone the route I'm pondering.

 

[Canip]

Has anyone gone from 8x40 to 8x30 in SFLs and regretted it

I haven‘t, but owning both models, I am dead certain I would really regret not having the 8x40 (and I would much less regret not having the 8x30).

 

[pm42]

Since I have the 8x30, I use them more than the 8x40.
so they are more than sufficient.
But for an international birding trip, I would certainly take the 8x40 as I find them more com (or even the NL Pure 8x42). Unless I had to really keep the weight and size under strict control: in such cases, the 8x30 are an excellent choice.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Canip and pm42: Interesting comments. Much appreciated!

 

[pbjosh]

I've only very recently gotten ahold of the SFL 8x30 but it is very similar to the MHG 8x30 which I have had and used a ton for several years. The MHG 8x30 is not as good as larger alpha bins but is excellent and, until the SFL came along, was the best "compact but almost full sized" bin there was. The 8x30 SFL appears (following opinions of others, I don't yet have a real opinion) to steal that crown from the MHG.

All that said, I have used the MHG for years for local birding, for having in the front seat of the car, for birding from bicycle, most local birding, birding by bike, hiking, etc. It is excellent. But I've not taken it on international trips, not tried to pretend that it would be as comfortable / excellent / high performing as alpha 42mm or even 32mm binoculars. IE, I've taken alpha 8x32's on international trips as my only bin, and I've taken 8x42's and 10x42's. But I've never taken the MHG 8x30. And while opinions here and elsewhere online, as well as my thus far brief experience, suggest that the SFL 8x30 is superior in many ways to the MHG, I still wouldn't take it vs a larger bin. I would happily take the much larger SF 8x32,

 

[Bill Atwood]

"Has anyone gone from 8x40 to 8x30 in SFLs and regretted it or deemed them insufficient for an international birding trip (e.g. tropical etc.)."

Absolutely. In fact it's altered my perspective on using mid-sized bins as back ups. As much as I wanted to love the 8x30SFLs I found the interaction between ER and FOV to be intolerable. After a bit of contemplation I realized that I used mid-size bins (8x32 BAs & 8x32 FLs) because they were the best bin I had for the purpose after I'd purchased the 8x ELs. Backup bins go in my checked luggage and the difference between packing 32s and 42s is not that great. Currently the plan is to use 8x42 NLs as a primary bin and 8x42 SFLs as a backup. I might even ditch the NLs for another pair of SFLs.

 

[Scott98]

Absolutely. In fact it's altered my perspective on using mid-sized bins as back ups. As much as I wanted to love the 8x30SFLs I found the interaction between ER and FOV to be intolerable.

This is why I've settled on some vintage 7x35's as my compact, lightweight binoculars. Never cared for 8x30 or 8x32. It's the wrong magnification IMO.

 

[b-lilja]

I'm a good respondent on this as I have both and am on a long international trip - not primarily birding, but birding along with other stuff.

I really love the 8x30 SFLs on this trip - I don't think I would have brought the 40s as they would have just been too big. They are more finicky handling wise than the 40s, but using just a bit gets me into the mode and they are fine for me (I use with glasses typically depending on eye state). To be clear, I can also understand folks not liking that finickiness either.

However I am with Canip - speaking generally, the 40 SFLs are my favorite bin bar none - they are classics and will never go, whereas the 30s feel further down the "must have" list. At home, they get used less frequently.

I also have loved the 7x21 Curios on this trip but the focus broke - if that wasn't an issue, I would be tempted for these purposes just to go really light and take those (the true pocketability in a pair of shorts is really nice walking).

 

[chill6x6]

I don't have the SFL in 8X30. I do use the 8X30s probably the most of any format while traveling. After years of using about any format you can think of I've come to the conclusion that a good 8X30 is about what it takes to not "miss" your preferred format while really birding. AND since it's not going to be your primary binocular anyway, why drop $1500(yeah I know, I one to talk!)? It doesn't hurt to learn from my experiment though. I use a Monarch 7 or Monarch HG 8X30 all the time while traveling. Both have been perfect. I won't cry if something happens to one of them either(especially the M7).

 

[pbjosh]

I don't have the SFL in 8X30. I do use the 8X30s probably the most of any format while traveling. After years of using about any format you can think of I've come to the conclusion that a good 8X30 is about what it takes to not "miss" your preferred format while really birding. AND since it's not going to be your primary binocular anyway, why drop $1500(yeah I know, I one to talk!)? It doesn't hurt to learn from my experiment though. I use a Monarch 7 or Monarch HG 8X30 all the time while traveling. Both have been perfect. I won't cry if something happens to one of them either(especially the M7).

This really sums it up well, except for me the dividing line is perhaps a bit closer to full sized than for you - as in, it depends on where I'm traveling and what kind of birding. For hardcore trips I still take a 42mm or sometimes the 8x32mm SF. For more casual birding or places I'm not looking for anything new or if I want to pack light or am birding from the bike, I take the 8x30 MHG. I do run into the minor short comings of that bin from time to time. Turning up an odd shorebird in harsh light at a good distance, for instance, I don't lie to myself - a better bin would reveal more detail. But that is pretty uncommon.

It is necessary to add that the 8x30 SFL (though very early days for me with it) seems to have optical performance much closer to an alpha than the MHG, and moderately easier eye placement as well. I cannot say now but I could imagine potentially taking it on somewhat more serious outings in the future. So far it seems a fantastic birding tool, basically a better MHG despite the differences in field curvature and other little details.

 

[MiddleRiver]

I'm going to try one. I may default back to SFL40 for travel. But I figure it's worth the risk that I'll lose $ whichever I end up selling.
I struggle for two reasons: as an eyeglasses wearer, 'eye-box' matters. I hate looking through a peep-hole. ANd I'm also spoiled by Nocs and Retros. So I guess the bar is pretty high for me, yet I'm at the point in life where I don't want to hump a big load when really hiking/trekking/adventure-travelling. A day's jaunt of a mile or so is fine, but 4mi+ on rough terrain with birding camera etc. is another story. I'm hoping the 30's will knock my socks off or at least be close enough to the 40's that I can live with the slightly lesser brightness dusk/dawn.

 

[tenex]

So far it seems a fantastic birding tool, basically a better MHG despite the differences in field curvature and other little details.

This is what I had hoped SFL 30 would be, and I'd be curious to try one sometime. But I don't understand the curvature comments, also here:

I actually prefer the image in the non-flatfield SFL.

Both MHG and SFL are claimed to have field flatteners, and MHG's has already been criticized as modest in effect, so is there really that much difference? (source on SFL: Zeiss brochure shows "FF" for both SF and SFL)

 

[Alaska4me]

I do use the 8X30s probably the most of any format while traveling. After years of using about any format you can think of I've come to the conclusion that a good 8X30 is about what it takes to not "miss" your preferred format while really birding.

That makes two of us.

 

[pbjosh]

This is what I had hoped SFL 30 would be, and I'd be curious to try one sometime. But I don't understand the curvature comments, also here:

Both MHG and SFL are claimed to have field flatteners, and MHG's has already been criticized as modest in effect, so is there really that much difference? (source on SFL: Zeiss brochure shows "FF" for both SF and SFL)

I will pay more attention to this, but thus far it seems that the field curvature is more obvious in the SFL than the MHG. I guess field flattening is an idea that can be implemented and it may or may not flatten all the way to a "truly flat field" however one defines that or not. Certainly Swaro EL/NL seem to be flatter field than Zeiss SF. While the MHG isn't as flat as an EL, it is not too far behind the SFs in terms of how big the sweet spot is and how noticeable the curvature is at the field edge. Initial impression of the SFL is that it's a bit more apparent than the MHG, but that when you focus the curvature out, the edges are perhaps sharper and show less distortion than the MHG. That's a very tentative initial impression, keep in mind.

 

[henry link]

I tested the field flattening behavior of an 8x40 SFL last year year here:

Zeiss 8x40 SFL: A Few Tests

I recently had the opportunity to do a few quick tests of a local dealer's newly arrived Zeiss 8x40 SFL. Here are the results. Distortion: I brought along my usual target of small circles to test for angular magnification distortion as well as a grid pattern I view backwards through the...

www.birdforum.net

I haven't seen the 8x30, but I would expect a family resemblance in the field flatness of the two.

 

[MiddleRiver]

I received 8x30SFL's yesterday from optics4birding (recommended) since several other dealers were out-of-stock (B&H etc).

First impression out-of-the-box was that it was a honey-i-shrunk-the-kids look-alike to the 8x40. Light but not cheap feeling and actually weirdly 'dense' given the size? But definitely lighter than anything else I own other than 8x20's.

Ergos (I have glove size 8 hands, so not huge):
No issues whatsoever with grip or focuser. The later is suuuuper-smooth and perfect resistance. Perfect. Location allows me to use index or middle finger. Large rubbery wheel very comfortable and quick.
Eyecup is very low to metal inner rim, and at one point I thought I heard metal touch my specs. I also had a little bit of finicky eye-placement, so I unscrewed eyecups out then back in to where the 'click' occurs. Probably 2mm extention? I can see full field and eye placement is improved so I may go the route of o-ring, or just remember to check them occasionally.
The focuser, as already mentioned, is perfect. The hinge tension is stiff, but I like that. The diopter is VERY stiff which is somewhat of a pain (I wear 2 diff glasses and they are not quite exactly the same), but I can live with it and better than the option of too lose? As an aside, the Retro setting is brilliant. You can tweak it on the fly with ring finger, which is sometimes nice - I find that early morning or late tired eyes can sometimes benefit from fine tuning.

View:
Crisp, wide (hey, I'm a Leica guy!), neutral color, hard to induce CA (almost undetectable yellow fringing when pushed to viewing conditions I would only expect if desperately trying to ID a bird). I compared them to NV8x42 early this morning and digging into dark creek-bed, the nocs were of course brighter, but I didn't feel like the SFL's would have been crippling unless I was searching REALLY early/late. Hunters might miss the extra 15min.? I still think the Leica view is a little contrastier and luscious and all that but really not a huuuuge difference. I also compared them to the 7x35Retros and it only served to remind me how superb (and underappreciated) they are. Of course the view is 'easier, more relaxed...' etc. but 7x35 vs 8x30 is not a fair fight.

In short:
I did a 2mi birdwalk this morning and what was significant was that i forgot about any possible limitations or issues. Yes, the view was not a 'big easy' as the Nocs or even the Retros, but most of the time I was simply birding. As I approached home I started pondering 'should I sell the 8x40's?'. Did these just obsolete them? That's a big deal imho!
The 8x40's I thought were a home-run. The 30's in many ways make even more sense to me. "In for a dime, in for a dollar" and if the purpose of the 40's was to 'travel light' (after all, I have UVHD's, NV,...), then the 40's suddenly become like 'not enough' - larger, a bit heavier. Yes, they are 'easier' and overall 'better', but in actual used I'm not sure they are that much of an improvement. The 30's seem like they would drop in a cargo pocket and in fact I'm re-thinking my 8x20 Trinnies!

YMMV