• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    Register for an account to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

AOU 2017 Checklist proposals (1 Viewer)

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
Some mtDNA-based stuff attached.

...

Green is Old World, ochre is New World.

Wow! Thanks!

So best fit is four crossbill species: L. curvirostra (Common Xb) & L. bifasciata (Two-barred Xb) in Old World, and L. minor (Red Xb; Brehm 1846, oldest New World plain-winged Xb name) & L. leucoptera (White-winged Xb) in New World :t:

Any plans to get this published formally? Looks worthwhile to me.
 

Kirk Roth

Well-known member
Right, missed that one!

And yes, pytyopsittacus from e.g. Scandinavia would be good.

And also more sampling from the New World among the Red Crossbills - nearly nothing from the east (Newfoundland would be of interest), Alaska, or Mexico, and more New World samples overall would help clear up the "Colorado-centric" sections.

To answer Laurent and Nutcracker's question, for whatever its worth - I was both right and wrong in my intended answer. I did misinterpret the figure.

To answer Markus's question, they do indeed occur in Twin Falls county, if you believe the eBird data:

http://ebird.org/ebird/map/redcro9?...mr=1-12&bmo=1&emo=12&yr=all&byr=1900&eyr=2017
 

lewis20126

Well-known member
Wow! Thanks!

So best fit is four crossbill species: L. curvirostra (Common Xb) & L. bifasciata (Two-barred Xb) in Old World, and L. minor (Red Xb; Brehm 1846, oldest New World plain-winged Xb name) & L. leucoptera (White-winged Xb) in New World :t:

Any plans to get this published formally? Looks worthwhile to me.

Yes, very fine work. It all seems fairly logical - agree that Scandinavian Parrot would be helpful - perhaps that will reveal a surprise. Interesting to see no obvious separation of North African, Balearic or Luzon birds. And 'Scottish Crossbill' seems comprehensively buried by this, surely.

cheers, alan
 

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
And also to get the huge-billed, deep purple-pink crossbill I saw in the Pirin Mts in Bulgaria a few years ago . . . looked very 'Parroty' and with a Parrot-like call, too :t:
 

Bismarck Honeyeater

Barely known member
It seems that Cassia Crossbill is being drowned at birth. One of the shortest lived 'species' on record?

Why was this information not taken into consideration (or was it, and there are other factors that were taken into account) before it's recent elevation to speicesdom?

And is it likely that IOC will take Laurent's presentation on board?
 

Frank Gill

Well-known member
It seems that Cassia Crossbill is being drowned at birth. One of the shortest lived 'species' on record?

Why was this information not taken into consideration (or was it, and there are other factors that were taken into account) before it's recent elevation to speicesdom?

And is it likely that IOC will take Laurent's presentation on board?
There is good stuff in the pipeline.
We'll wait :)
 

Mysticete

Well-known member
United States
Again....as I have already stated...AOU/AOS does not used the phylogenetic species concept. Which if you are arguing on the basis of the tree Laurent posted, is the species concept you are using.

Their is fairly solid evidence, as PRESENTED IN THE PROPOSAL, that Cassia Crossbill acts as a good biological species where sympatric with other crossbills. That it's embedded within Red Crossbill is irrelevant under the BSC.
 

Kratter

Well-known member
Maybe a small detail, but I'm still curious to the statement that it's endemic to Cassia County, Idaho. Is there anyone familier with the South Hills range (I'm not) that can bring clarity to this? Is the forest vegetation different on the Cassia County side of the range compared to the Twin Falls County side of the range? Or is it actually endemic to Cassia AND Twin Falls counties?

Our (AOS NACC) Notes for the crossbill read:
Although the English name South Hills Crossbill was used in the description, Cassia Crossbill more accurately describes the distribution of this species, which is endemic to Cassia County, Idaho, and is more succinct and less confusing (C. W. Benkman, in litt.)
 

Markus Lagerqvist

Well-known member
Our (AOS NACC) Notes for the crossbill read:
Although the English name South Hills Crossbill was used in the description, Cassia Crossbill more accurately describes the distribution of this species, which is endemic to Cassia County, Idaho, and is more succinct and less confusing (C. W. Benkman, in litt.)

Yes, that statment made me curious since South Hills is divided into two counties, and if you can trust the e-bird data it does seem like it's not endemic to Cassia County, but occurs at least also in Twin Falls County. But any evidence of the opposite would be interesting to see. |=)|
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top