Best compromise for a pair of Woodland binoculars ideally 7x ? (1 Viewer)

[Richard D]

I'm mainly an open land /coastal border - for anyone who knows Kent typically- South Swale NNR, Oare Marshes and the creeks in between. Here my Habicht 10x40's suit my needs well - I can track Marsh Harriers in flight happily, I'm not radically changing distances frequently and the 10x DoF isn't a problem. For general walks I carry CL 8x25's and again find they work well as general purpose binoculars - I've rarely felt the need for full-size 8x30s. However I'm wanting to do more woodland birding and neither pair is ideal for that once the tree canopy has formed.

Optics manufacturers seem to have largely abandoned the 7x42 format and choices are slim. Budget £1000 max, preferably lower - don't mind ex-demo or secondhand if in great condition but not looking for a beaten up pair that might involve substantial servicing costs a year down the line.

Happy to compromise on:

Edge sharpness, just want a decent central sweet spot
Weight (I don't mind bricks)
Much as I love the Porro 3D view will put up with flatter views
Styling
Water Resistance - don't need fully waterproof but want something that won't fog up from being caught in a shower or through temperature changes
Eye relief - I don't wear glasses and only need 0.75 dioptre difference
Would consider 8x and reduction in DoF if that's best option

Don't want:

Anything but very slight CA - I seem sensitive to it, obviously light edge CA is bearable but even 'moderate' central CA is a no go.
Sloppy focusing
Anything likely to be unrepairable if it develops a fault.
Strong colour cast

Thoughts:

The 7x42 Habichts are an obvious option, liking the 10x42, but the limited FoV does raise questions. Within budget and available new.

7x42 Leica Ultravids - used seem to sell for more than budget - might be lucky with the pre HD+ model

7x42 Leica BA/BN - Seem to be about £700 for a good used example - how well do they control CA? Do seals and focusing hold up as they're getting pretty old.

7x42 Swarovski SLC - Seem rare secondhand and mainly the older black versions in heavily used condition (I get completely confused as to how to tell the versions apart though, and what the practical differences are).

7x 42 Zeiss Diaylt - Anything other than a pair with cracking armour or a hard life seem to be at top of budget and getting very old.

7x42 Nikon EDG - top of budget used, hard to find and Nikon might not repair second owner models

Curveball option - seen New Old Stock 7x50 SLCneu s for about £900 - only seen reviews from astro and killing communities. Other than being weighty are they an option?

Should I reconsider 8x40/42s even with the reduced dof?


Thanks for any thoughts/additional suggestions

 

[[email protected]]

I think I would go with the 7x42 Habicht. Since you like the 10x40 Habicht you will probably like the 7x42 also. It does have a narrow FOV but it being a 7x you will still have a 342 foot FOV which should be sufficient. The 7x42 Habicht is one of the brightest binocular out there with over 95% transmission, so it will be very bright under the canopy as well. As you know from the 10x40 Habicht the focuser is tight, but it is not sloppy and very precise, and you won't have to focus as much because of the excellent DOF. I always preferred the GA version of the 7x42 Habicht because the eye cups are bigger and more comfortable, and it has tougher armour. A lot of your other 7x42 choices are difficult to find and discontinued, so you won't get much manufacturer's support. If you could find a UVHD 7x42 or Meopta Meostar 7x42 within your budget it would be a good choice, but they don't have the 3D porro view either like the Habicht. A Zeiss FL 7x42 is a good choice IF you can find one. A good 8x42 for you would also be a Zeiss FL 8x42 because it has exceptional CA control, but again they are hard to find, and they will probably be over your budget. The Nikon MHG 8x42 and Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42 I think would have too much CA for you if you are sensitive to it. Since you are in the UK, the Opticron Aurora 8x42 would also be a good choice if you wanted to go 8x.

 

[alan kennedy]

I'm mainly an open land /coastal border - for anyone who knows Kent typically- South Swale NNR, Oare Marshes and the creeks in between. Here my Habicht 10x40's suit my needs well - I can track Marsh Harriers in flight happily, I'm not radically changing distances frequently and the 10x DoF isn't a problem. For general walks I carry CL 8x25's and again find they work well as general purpose binoculars - I've rarely felt the need for full-size 8x30s. However I'm wanting to do more woodland birding and neither pair is ideal for that once the tree canopy has formed.

Optics manufacturers seem to have largely abandoned the 7x42 format and choices are slim. Budget £1000 max, preferably lower - don't mind ex-demo or secondhand if in great condition but not looking for a beaten up pair that might involve substantial servicing costs a year down the line.

Happy to compromise on:

Edge sharpness, just want a decent central sweet spot
Weight (I don't mind bricks)
Much as I love the Porro 3D view will put up with flatter views
Styling
Water Resistance - don't need fully waterproof but want something that won't fog up from being caught in a shower or through temperature changes
Eye relief - I don't wear glasses and only need 0.75 dioptre difference
Would consider 8x and reduction in DoF if that's best option

Don't want:

Anything but very slight CA - I seem sensitive to it, obviously light edge CA is bearable but even 'moderate' central CA is a no go.
Sloppy focusing
Anything likely to be unrepairable if it develops a fault.
Strong colour cast

Thoughts:

The 7x42 Habichts are an obvious option, liking the 10x42, but the limited FoV does raise questions. Within budget and available new.

7x42 Leica Ultravids - used seem to sell for more than budget - might be lucky with the pre HD+ model

7x42 Leica BA/BN - Seem to be about £700 for a good used example - how well do they control CA? Do seals and focusing hold up as they're getting pretty old.

7x42 Swarovski SLC - Seem rare secondhand and mainly the older black versions in heavily used condition (I get completely confused as to how to tell the versions apart though, and what the practical differences are).

7x 42 Zeiss Diaylt - Anything other than a pair with cracking armour or a hard life seem to be at top of budget and getting very old.

7x42 Nikon EDG - top of budget used, hard to find and Nikon might not repair second owner models

Curveball option - seen New Old Stock 7x50 SLCneu s for about £900 - only seen reviews from astro and killing communities. Other than being weighty are they an option?

Should I reconsider 8x40/42s even with the reduced dof?


Thanks for any thoughts/additional suggestions

Don't forget 7x42 FL. Discontinued and hard to come by, but still worth considering. I managed to get an excellent example for under £800 very recently. It's a cracking binocular.

 

[Richard D]

Don't forget 7x42 FL. Discontinued and hard to come by, but still worth considering. I managed to get an excellent example for under £800 very recently. It's a cracking binocular.

Thanks. Good relatively recent 7x42s don't seem to crop up that often. Someone also suggested the Meopta Meostar, but again they seem to be snapped up very quickly. I get the impression there is more of a market than the makers suggest.

I'm open to suggestions of strong performers from the more mid-range brands.

 

[CharleyBird]

Don't forget 7x42 FL. Discontinued and hard to come by, but still worth considering. I managed to get an excellent example for under £800 very recently. It's a cracking binocular.

The 7x42FL would also be my first choice. Mine were £899 mint condition.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Also note that the UV pre-HD/HD+ are still superb glass. I've seen an occasional one pop up NIB and several minty. Great ergos, form factor, etc.

 

[mwhogue]

Richard,

My 2 cents: Given your intended use and what you already have, stay on the quest for a 7x. Both Pre HD and pre HD+ Leicas should be a good value --Just slight differences between the three versions IME when comparing 10x50 UV vs. 10x50 UVHD+. 7x42 Leica BA/BN also excellent and a friend's example still delivers an excellent view and mechanically sound in al respects. Nikon EDG II 7x42 is my favorite in terms of image quality but there is the warranty issue. Zeiss FL are top contenders as well especially with the 450' FoV. Note, I don't often "see" CA in good bins.

Opticron makes a 7x42 roof which has been reviewed favorably by Lee/Troubador.

Mike

 

[Ignatius]

Unless you have actually tried the Habicht 7x42 yourself, do not let this rote squawking about narrow field of view sway you away from them. They are fabulous in their DOF, clarity, brightness, sharpness, and a 6 mm EP is good for dawn and dusk too. Unless your neck is stiff or you have issues with your cervical vertebrae, you will most likely find, that you automatically compensate for the infamous and fabled narrow field of view (the toilet roll analogy like to be bandied about by detractors) with quite normal movements of the head which you are used to from looking about you in the world without binos. I know of no one, save people slagging off Habichts apparently, who holds their head rigidly, staring ahead only, and attempting to see the world by rolling their eyes from side to side.

 

[Ratal]

I'd spring for an Opticron Aurora 8x42, as a good 80% of my birding is deep in the woodlands, where they perform flawlessly. Bright, staggeringly sharp, CA free and brand new for 799 UK sterling. A steal imho for what you get.

 

[yarrellii]

I think a 1000 GBP budget should allow you to access really fine optics.

Second hand I've bought the 7x42 FL for less than that... 3 times in the last 3 years. So, while they don't show up every week, if you're not in a hurry, I think it's worth the wait (actually, I've sold 2 of those to forum members for way less than your budget, so a word of optimism and confidence). The incredible clarity, field of view, sense of depth and build quality of the FL is just amazing.
The same goes for the 7x42 Ultravid, I think with a bit of luck you can get hold of a BR or HD within budget.

Talking about warranty, Kite is well regarded among our Belgian-Dutch fellow birders, since it offers a 30 year period to back up their products. You can have the made in Japan Ibis ED 7x42 well within your budget (the DDOptics EDX 7x42 seems to be if not identical, a very close relative).
Pinac has it in his Pinacollection (mind you he's got an 8x42): binocular.ch/kite-ibis-8x42-ed/

I love 7x42, and both the FL and UV are amazing devices well worth the wait/search if you're not in a hurry. That's what I'd go for (in fact, that's what I've done in the past ). Good luck.

 

[Pinewood]

Hello Richard,


I have had experiences with the Austrian 7x42, the Leica 7x42BA and the Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 ClassiC. The Zeiss had better FOV than the Austrian glass, better edge sharpness than the Leica and I never experienced chromatic aberration problems. As it uses a moveable bridge, it is slow focussing, does not focus very closely and is not truly waterproof. Although long, most users find it to be a friendly glass.

Stay safe,
Arthur Pinewood

 

[Tringa45]

Richard,

I agree that 7x42 is the ideal format for woodland birding and it would also be my choice if I had to restrict myself to a single binocular, as I also use a scope.
One model that has not been mentioned is the Kite Ibis 7x42 ED. FoV is somewhat moderate but the company enjoys a good reputation and the Ibis is probably one of Kamakura Japan's higher range products.
I still have and enjoy my 7x42 SLC from 2003 (Swarobright but pre-Neu) and my wife has a 2016 built 7x42 Meostar , which is easily its equal and lacks the pronounced yellow tint of the very early models.

John

 

[Blue72]

What about 7x35

you can get a brand new Leica for your budget

 

[Richard D]

I think I would go with the 7x42 Habicht. Since you like the 10x40 Habicht you will probably like the 7x42 also. It does have a narrow FOV but it being a 7x you will still have a 342 foot FOV which should be sufficient. The 7x42 Habicht is one of the brightest binocular out there with over 95% transmission, so it will be very bright under the canopy as well. As you know from the 10x40 Habicht the focuser is tight, but it is not sloppy and very precise, and you won't have to focus as much because of the excellent DOF. I always preferred the GA version of the 7x42 Habicht because the eye cups are bigger and more comfortable, and it has tougher armour. A lot of your other 7x42 choices are difficult to find and discontinued, so you won't get much manufacturer's support. If you could find a UVHD 7x42 or Meopta Meostar 7x42 within your budget it would be a good choice, but they don't have the 3D porro view either like the Habicht. A Zeiss FL 7x42 is a good choice IF you can find one. A good 8x42 for you would also be a Zeiss FL 8x42 because it has exceptional CA control, but again they are hard to find, and they will probably be over your budget. The Nikon MHG 8x42 and Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42 I think would have too much CA for you if you are sensitive to it. Since you are in the UK, the Opticron Aurora 8x42 would also be a good choice if you wanted to go 8x.

Unless you have actually tried the Habicht 7x42 yourself, do not let this rote squawking about narrow field of view sway you away from them. They are fabulous in their DOF, clarity, brightness, sharpness, and a 6 mm EP is good for dawn and dusk too. Unless your neck is stiff or you have issues with your cervical vertebrae, you will most likely find, that you automatically compensate for the infamous and fabled narrow field of view (the toilet roll analogy like to be bandied about by detractors) with quite normal movements of the head which you are used to from looking about you in the world without binos. I know of no one, save people slagging off Habichts apparently, who holds their head rigidly, staring ahead only, and attempting to see the world by rolling their eyes from side to side.

Thanks - I do love the 10x40s... I can see the advantage of a larger FoV in initially locating tricky blighters, but it perhaps shouldn't be the primary consideration. Most UK suppliers are special order so trying them out before purchase is difficult. My 10x40s are the GA - I know those eyecups are fine for me, the leather version unknown. Besides whatever protection the rubber gives one advantage would be my wife wouldn't be sure how many binoculars I've bought ;-) Disadvantages are I'd have to check which pair I picked up on the way out, and the extra £170 for a layer of rubber always seems extortionate.

 

[Ignatius]

Ah well ... if it's tricky blighters you're after ...

 

[Richard D]

I lost interest after the use of "killing communities", (member of the sheep?)

It was Astro and killing communities - I suspect the needs of stargazers and those that hunt are quite different to people who enjoy observing birds behaviour. I have no problem with stargazers, and occasionally partake myself. I don't have any problem with people who hunt food out of necessity. I don't value the opinions of those who kill for pleasure.

 

[Richard D]

Ah well ... if it's tricky blighters you're after ...

With my skills a lot of birds are tricky blighters

 

[Richard D]

What about 7x35

you can get a brand new Leica for your budget

I'd consider 7x35, but the only one I know of is the 'Retrovid' and new in the UK I've not seen them for less than £1200. I can see their appeal, although I think Leica is charging a lot for nostalgia value / retro appeal when you compare the pricing to their other Trinovids.

 

[Boogieshrew]

Before spending £1000 how about trying the

Opticron Discovery WP PC 7x42​

If you like it you'll save a packet. It's only £180.

I've not tried it myself but I think there were some good opinions of it here when it was released.

If you decide 7x42 isn't for you, you haven't lost much at all.

 

[[email protected]]

"Besides whatever protection the rubber gives one advantage would be my wife wouldn't be sure how many binoculars I've bought"

That is the best reason of all for getting another Habicht!