Birds fae Torry (1 Viewer)

[Joseph N]

And perhaps spelling revision too

My spelling is far better than my maths, I can assure you of that . Another typo, amendments made; I should really stop typing so fast.

More than happy to contribute to the PST Andrew, there's something satisfying about counting these bonnie birds. Interesting to know that Knot has been around a while, certainly only had them on no more than a couple of occasions there before, and they seem to favour the north bank. The Woodcock did come as a surprise, always great to see.

Joseph

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

One or two items of interest today. A drake Goosander and Goldeneye were around the river mouth. I was a bit surprised to see an immature Brent Goose (presumably hrota) nibbling about on Skate's Nose, although it's not the first time there's been one there and there seem to have been a few moving through this weekend. We also managed to join in with the International White Winged Gull Festival today, when an Iceland Gull, probably second winter, flew across Greyhope Bay. A few Bottlenose Dolphins and three Red-throated Divers were also about.

Here are some goose and gull pictures, which have the reassuring quality regular readers have come to expect from this thread.

 

[Teamscotch]

The Brent was still there at 11 am today.

 

[Jimmycq]

Still there today around 1300.

Jim.

 

[Teamscotch]

I'm struggling with this Brent a bit...maybe its the single bird out of context thing...but should a 1st W hrota look so dusky below?

 

[Jimmycq]

Hi Teamscotch, in my limited bird watching experience this is a first for me, so I was just chuffed to see it. for what they're worth, here's a couple mor pictures. Horrible day down there today, dull, windy, freezing.

Jim.

 

[Teamscotch]

Thanks Jimmy - they are certainly better then my own comedy efforts from yesterday!

 

[Joseph N]

I'm struggling with this Brent a bit...maybe its the single bird out of context thing...but should a 1st W hrota look so dusky below?

I had the same suspicion (particularly from Andrew's pic), happy to be proved wrong but it looks uniformly dark enough to be a bernicla. It has just been reported as such on ABZ Rare Birds.

Joseph

 

[Teamscotch]

Glad its not just me! Andrews pic exaggerates the darkness of the underparts a bit imo...I think Jimmy's is more true to life, colour wise. I've not got a lot of experience of imm hrota, but would expect a bird that had developed a neck collar like this bad boy to be a bit more obvious!

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I find it a bit hard to assign this to a subspecies, although certainly earlier in the winter an immature hrota can easily look like this. Given that bernicla is a bit scarce around here I'd be interested to know why it's been confidently IDed as one today. A lot of people seem unaware that 1st winter hrota is basically as dark as bernicla, although differences may become more apparent later in the winter. The Collins argues they're very hard to distinguish anyway.

I pretty much always ID immature Brents by the company they keep, which makes lone birds tricky. It's noticeable that there was a small influx of hrota at the weekend, when this bird presumably arrived. I tend to think that's a better indication than working out whether it's too dark. I suppose that if it was quite pale on the belly we could be certain it's hrota but that doesn't mean that it still being quite dark makes it bernicla.

 

[Teamscotch]

Hi Andrew, thanks for the reply! I have to say that I thought it was (probably) hrota in the field, but had a bit of doubt when looking at Collins later, which depicts rather more distinctive 1st winter birds. Still unconvinced either way at the moment!

 

[Mark Lew1s]

I only looked at this briefly in the field last night as I shamelessly twitched it after a bit of fieldwork. I must admit that I had it as a juv pale bellied BG, albeit a rather dark one. Although my id was swayed a little by likelihood, I thought the contrast between belly and breast was probably ok for hrota. I did note that it looked long necked at the time (pro bernicula) but put this down to it being a lone bird and looking much longer necked than the oycs it was hanging around with.

For what its worth, I think its fine to be on the fence with this. As Andrew has mentioned already, juv brents can be a bit of a nightmare, and unless I get a clear one I tend to leave them alone. However, we could do this one if there are any more photos out there of the birds rear end. If the white back end of the bird goes right up to the back of the legs (and between them) then its a hrota..and if the dark extends behind the legs then its a bernicula. Apparently. I'm not sure how useful this feature is though unless you have bought the bird in question a couple of drinks.

Its all here

http://www.dutchbirding.nl/journal.php?id=113

I'm finding it a little awkward to make much out on this feature from the photos available, but if pushed I reckon the dark might go beyond the legs, making it a bernicula.

Every day is a schoolday!

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Just to add a bit more to the mix, van Duivendijk suggests that hrota tends to retain the pale fringes on the scapulars and coverts into late winter more readily than bernicla. I guess this probably isn't diagnostic though. Didn't know about that feature with the dark and the belly. It's a bit hard to be sure from the pictures as to what's shadow and what's dark feathering, but it seems like it's worth looking more closely for in the field.

 

[Jimmycq]

Here's my last photo guys, looks like the white doesn't quite reach the legs, but, I'll leave it to the experts to decide, I've just been on Opus to find out what the hrota and bernicla is all about !!.
Love this web site, I've learned so much in the short time I've been on it, and there is so much to learn, one thing for sure, next time I see a Brent I'll be looking for all these differences, cheers

Jim.

 

[Teamscotch]

I biked round the pants after work this evening...glorious sunshine and it felt really warm out of the wind down in Nigg Bay.

The Brent was still there giving close views through the fence on its pier as I manfully resisted drop-kicking a pesky young dog into the Dee. As suggested by FPS I looked carefully at the goose's butt. There is a narrow tongue of darker feathering in the the centre of the underparts behind the legs. You can't really see it in profile...need a good look from directly behind when it has it's head down.

I guess coupled with its general darkness this late in the winter this should swing it for bernicla? Or not?

 

[Teamscotch]

I dropped in again to look at the goose tonight. Nowt else really of notice part from the dolphins giving it large.

Interestingly the dark behind the legs of the Brent looked more prominent tonight, perhaps because the light was less bright and the bird less mobile. I don't think it's particularly easy to assess in the field...would be interesting to see better photos.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Okay, let's have a look at this Brent Goose then. Had good and fairly prolonged views today and took quite a few pictures. Side on (first picture) it can be a bit hard to tell whether you're looking at shadow or dark feathering but there's never any clear dark feathering that extends behind the legs, which is supposed to be apparent in bernicla, according to the Dutch Birding article. From behind (second picture) it looks pretty pale right up to the area between the legs. I watched it preening for a while, when the belly was more obvious. There still seems to be some darker feathering between the legs but this isn't all that dark (third and fourth pictures) and there's not really a clear demarcation between dark and white. It can also look quite mottled with white on the flanks (fifth picture), although that may not be conclusive either way. The scapulars and coverts also show pretty clear pale edges still (first picture).

So, I can't actually see anything to clearly suggest bernicla. My suspicion is still that it's a hrota that isn't as much into first winter plumage as you might expect. I suppose if it hangs around for a few more weeks we might get more answers.

Not much else about today in a boisterous northwesterly. A few dolphins and Fulmars bobbing about was all.

 

[Mark Lew1s]

A nice 3cy Iceland gull briefly at the ness this lunchtime. Not a lot else though. Got a decent view of the Brent and I'm happy it's a pale bellied. Also a pretty spectacular display from the dolphins.

 

[Teamscotch]

Nice photos & analysis Andrew...I guess I was guilty of misinterpreting shadowing. I'm typically spare bins only when I'm biking, not so great for critical examination ;-).

The Brent was still there this evening...I'm quite surprised it stays faithful to such a small area. Nothing else to report really, although the warm temps had encouraged quite a few song thrush into song on my way home through the city.

 

[Mark Lew1s]

News from just outside the region...There is a big glauc on the Dee at the rowing club in Aberdeen.