Declining Song birds..Farming practises (2 Viewers)

[Suricate]

Hi Suricate

Hopefully, many birdwatchers do do something as well as become armchair critics.

It may not be immediately obvious from some comments on various threads, but many birders do get out and about in their own areas and report their sightings to their local ornithological society.

These may not be headline-grabbing statistics when viewed singly but they help to build up the overall picture and provide the statistics that conservation groups, etc. can use.

For instance, in an area where I birdwatch regularly a number of fields were left fallow, last winter. As well as attracting up to 4 Stonechats, which was an excellent local record, the numbers of Meadow Pipits built up to something like 4 or 5 times the best previous local totals.

A local birdwatcher to this particular area has sent in many records over literally decades so when the records for those large numbers of Pipits were submitted there is some data there to compare them with.

This is just one example for one small area but it does indicate what can be done by each individual without having to tackle the whole problem. I'm sure many birder could report similar stories from thir own experiences.

Adey

Hi Adey,
Please accept my apology if you thought I was directly pointing the finger at birdwatchers being armchair critics.
I know a great many birdwatchers and when given time I do enjoy it myself.
But I cannot understand how on a site set up for bird discussion is there so much apparent hatred and discrimination against certain species.
I respect all bird species and have been directly involved with many species both native and exotic. I have flown raptors and pigeons have kept and bred many species.
But it does seem that when an opinion differs that then the crass remarks begin or the thread is moved.
I consider myself very fortuanate as I work with wildlife 365 days a year and our website received over 2,000 calls in 2003 regarding injured birds, from across the world.
This very thread is supposed to relate to the decline of farmland species, but once again it has stopped on pigeons and raptors and I could expect that this topic will soon be stopped. Once again a serious issue will not get the experienced input that it could have.
Farming practices are just the tip of the Iceberg we need to address the new problems facing all species of birds, but without discrimination and listening to others.
Suricate

 

[Suricate]

On the subject of Skylarks, it might also be useful to send in records of them and Lapwings that attempt to breed in spring-sown cereals such as maize, along with whether the attempt is successful or not

And perhaps the issue should be raised as to why licences are still permitted to hunt Skylarks with Merlins.
Not all Falconry is good!!!
Suricate.

 

[Suricate]

Here are a few quotes from "Britain's Premier Pigeon Racing Weekly"


Pigeon Fanciers have justifiably claimed over many years that birds of prey kill their racing pigeons. Sparrowhawks, peregrines and to a lesser degree goshawks all take racing pigeons, either from around the loft or when they are racing or training. It can be soul destroying for a fancier who has spent much money, time and effort to see his birds killed and for there to be little legal recourse. These birds are protected by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 yet is wrong that a fancier cannot even legally protect his pigeons in his own garden from sparrowhawk attacks. Theses raptors even get inside the lofts on occasion yet the fancier is expected to just ‘shoo’ it away.

Pigeons saved countless lives in two World Wars. Their descendants are being ravaged by hawks and raptors along with the Nation's song birds.

We do say that there should be opportunities to humanely destroy troublesome birds and particularly those that take our pigeons from within our own property

Ho Ho Ho

are you for real?

Tim,
The threads in the forum I have been informed is for the discussion of wild birds and not domestic or captive species.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Suricate

 

[Jane Turner]

The best habitat for Skylarks in the 4 tetrads I do survey work on is somewhat surprisingly the two local golf clubs. Both the head greenkeepers have taken advice on how best to maintain the rough areas for ground nesters.

Another recent improvement has been the turning over of some previously cropped arable land to the horesy set. Lapwings and Skylarks have returned in quite good numbers and there have even been a few Quail records.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

The golf course here in St Andrews is certainly the best place locally for breeding Skylarks. That said, the farmland in east Fife is relatively good for passerines and other farmland species - there are still reasonable populations of Corn Bunting, Linnet, Tree Sparrow and Grey Partridge for instance. I reckon a lot of this is down to there being quite a lot of stubble through the winter (I think usually barley fields).

 

[Jane Turner]

Corn bunting.. I've almost forgotten what they look like. I was in Spain this year and saw a flock of about 200 chunky birds flying towards me.... on the edge of a Village. They the ticking away and I swear it took be a good 30 seconds to ID them. Its a good 20 years since I've seen a flock of Corn Buntings in Cheshire.

 

[HH75]

Hi Anthony,

The importance, or rather the SIGNIFICANCE , of the increased predation on racing pigeons during the last 10 years or so is that it acts as a barometer which indicates that, in the case of the Sparrowhawk, the shortage of its usual prey species (songbirds) is being replaced by a higher number of racing pigeons being killed.

At the risk of incurring your wrath,what is the significance of increased predation on racing pigeons from a purely biological viewpoint?While acknowledging that it is obviously of personal significance to the fanciers,racing pigeons rank on about the same level as budgerigars,except that the latter are kept safely in their cages....

We keep hearing the pet theory that predator numbers are governed by their prey but in this case, rather than declining at the same rate as songbirds, the Sparrowhawk population has remained much more constant. Why is this and how is it possible if the Prey/Predator theory works?

Pet theory?This has been proven many times(in particular,with respect to the variation in Snowy Owl/Rough-legged Buzzard populations being dependant on lemming numbers):to dismiss it as a 'pet theory' is like clinging stubbornly to the notion that the Earth is flat!
As I stated(but you selectively chose the elements that appeared to give succour to your cause),perhaps the Sparrowhawk population isn't constant,and is,in fact,in decline in rural areas?Even urban Sparrowhawks aren't as modern a phenomenon as you may imagine:my father remembers seeing one in his mother's garden back in the 1950's.They may be becoming more daring(perhaps because they have to be in order to survive?),but aren't necessarily increasing(at least not since the recovery from the serious decline of the 60's).

Could it be, as pigeon fanciers suggest, that the Sparrowhawk has diversified and is now supplementing its more usual diet of songbirds by killing a far higher proportion of racing pigeons?

Maybe,maybe not,hard to know without detailed studies having been carried out for the last 30-40 years.

Could it be that, as a direct result of the increased number of people feeding birds in their gardens, that the Sparrowhawk has followed them in and is fast becoming an urban bird, bringing more and more of them into contact with racing pigeons?

Few people feed birds in my area,and we still have Sparrowhawks from time to time.I would suggest that,in all but the leafiest suburbs,Sparrowhawks are mostly present outside their breeding season:there are very few trees in my area,so no suitable nest sites.

Will predation on racing pigeons become even higher as Sparrowhawks adapt to living in towns and cities?

Possibly it will,but this debate is(was?) about bird populations on farmland,not the possibility of increased Sparrowhawk predation on racing pigeons....

What will happen to the remaining songbird population if pigeon fanciers were to stop flying their pigeons, for example during the Sparrowhawk's breeding season, or for even a whole year?

In this case, would the Sparrowhawk population, which is being maintained at an artificially high level by the protection it receives under the Wildlife & Countryside Act, quickly 'mop up' what is left of the songbirds before it is realised what is happening?

Worse still, what effect on Sparrowhawks and their prey would it have if pigeon racing ceased altogether?

In other words, there is neither an infinite or endless supply of racing pigeons in the UK for the Sparrowhawk to rely on - what next if that also disappears?

Aren't the 'songbirds' and Sparrowhawks lucky to have the kind pigeon fanciers to act as their saviour?What did they do before pigeons were kept?Surely there could have been no birds in these islands?
Seriously,I'd say that the Sparrowhawk population in urban areas is more dependant on the numbers of tits,Blackbirds etc in gardens,which are still high(esp.compared to populations of Yellowhammers etc on farmland),and if racing pigeons were taken out of the equation,a balance between these and Sparrowhawk numbers would be established.
Racing pigeons,like domestic cats,aren't really bound by the usual biological restraints: both are maintained at artificially high levels by their owners.If cats were wild predators,they would be very much rarer than they are,as their population would be governed by prey populations,and if racers had to fend for themselves,there would not be huge dense 'colonies' of them in suburbia....
Harry H

 

[Brian Stone]

Corn Buntings appear to be holding their own here in fenland areas around Peterborough and on submitted records would appear to be more abundant than Yellowhammer. Flocks of up to 200 Corn Buntings can be found in the winter in some places. Yellowhammers are not reported so often but the winter flocks are generally much smaller.

The status of Yellowhammer here concerns me. I hope there is still a healthy breeding population associated with the less arable land in the west of our area that are rarely reported on. Perhaps these winter elsewhere. Otherwise this may be a real decline.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Yellowhammers and Reed Buntings both seem rather thin on the ground. It's not so much that they are hard to come by but I just don't come across flocks like I used to. Last weekend I saw a flock of 15 Reed Buntings and nearly tripped over my tripod in astonishment. That's the biggest group I've seen on the mainland for several years (although I think I saw more in Islay). When I was a lad we used to get about that number in our garden most winters.

 

[Jane Turner]

I have 30 years data on Reed Bunting, Corn Bunting and Yellowhammer. I'll just crunch a few numbers and see what it shows

 

[pdackerman]

Hi
I live in an area where they first started subsidising farmers for helping wildlife. Over the last few years have improved in the area, more Yellowhammers, Linnets etc. All in all I think the future may look more rosey for birds.
Also the introduction of tax (increase) for land fill has given the local Wildlife Trust a lot more money for new reserves which is great for the local bird population. (allso from the lotory fund)

 

[sparrowbirder]

On the subject of pigeons!! why does everybody get so attached to them,they should be classed as vermin,they carry more more diseases than rats!! you see people happily feeding them in squares throughout the land,and they get treated better than royalty!! people should get a reality check..

 

[Anthony Morton]

QUOTE=Jane Turner - I have 30 years data on Reed Bunting, Corn Bunting and Yellowhammer. I'll just crunch a few numbers and see what it shows

I would have thought that's fairly obvious, the data will only show what's already happened - a decline in the case of many species of songbirds.

What you need is either a crystal ball (don't even go there!) or else the ability to take action based on the population trends which are emerging.

Don't just carry on making endless lists which only confirm that something is wrong and getting worse - we already know that. DO something about it!

Anthony

 

[Jane Turner]

I don't have enough records of Corn Bunting to show anything significant.
Reed Bunting is interesting though.

There has been a significant increase in the number of breeding season records, that can presumably be accounted for by the careful management of two local wetland areas. However there has been a relative crash in autumn passage suggesting that birds from further afield are not soing so well.

There is an increase in observer activity in the 90's which needs to be bourne in mind.

 

[Jane Turner]

Hi
I live in an area where they first started subsidising farmers for helping wildlife. Over the last few years have improved in the area, more Yellowhammers, Linnets etc. All in all I think the future may look more rosey for birds.
Also the introduction of tax (increase) for land fill has given the local Wildlife Trust a lot more money for new reserves which is great for the local bird population. (allso from the lotory fund)

That is excellent news..Let hope the word spreads and more of Britain's farmland reverts to wildlife friendly havens.

 

[Ranger James]

What woudl you sugegst?

 

[Anthony Morton]

QUOTE=sparrowbirder - On the subject of pigeons!! why does everybody get so attached to them, they should be classed as vermin,they carry more more diseases than rats


Thank you sparrowbirder, thank you from the HEART of my BOTTOM. I had hoped that someone would feed me this line - and now you have obliged!

FACT Pigeons do NOT carry disease but they are CAPABLE of doing so in just the same way as humans. Would you agree, then, that there is a world of differemce between actually being a carrier and being able to be one?

If I follow your line of reasoning, then you (hopefully) have all the attributes and necessay equipment to become a male prostitite and an AIDS carrier. But just because you are capable of these things certainly doesn't mean you are, does it?

However, just in case I have missed something important, please quote your source for this illuminating comment, so that I can check for myself. By the way, don't just say that 'everybody knows' will you - because that's a lie too!

Anthony

 

[scampo]

I would like to know how many are actively doing something or are we armchair critics.

Suricate

Oh I don't think you would. And why the snide tone to your statement? I don't know, first Andy, now you... presuming you know what I do, and what others do. Naughty. You should try to find better rhetoric for your argument.

But, hold on a minute, you do say "we armchair critics" - are you including yourself in that group? Hmm.

Now, come on! There's never been a debate without tempers being frayed and "armchair critics" airing off. After all, we're not automatons. Interestingly, "suricate", of those who have written in, one very interesting aspect is to look at who hide behind a persona and who are more open.

Food for thought.

 

[scampo]

QUOTE=sparrowbirder - On the subject of pigeons!! why does everybody get so attached to them, they should be classed as vermin,they carry more more diseases than rats


Thank you sparrowbirder, thank you from the HEART of my BOTTOM. I had hoped that someone would feed me this line - and now you have obliged!

FACT Pigeons do NOT carry disease but they are CAPABLE of doing so in just the same way as humans. Would you agree, then, that there is a world of differemce between actually being a carrier and being able to be one?

If I follow your line of reasoning, then you (hopefully) have all the attributes and necessay equipment to become a male prostitite and an AIDS carrier. But just because you are capable of these things certainly doesn't mean you are, does it?

However, just in case I have missed something important, please quote your source for this illuminating comment, so that I can check for myself. By the way, don't just say that 'everybody knows' will you - because that's a lie too!

Anthony

All true, Andrew - as the RSPB has pointed out more than once; but the leap from racing pigeons to male prostitutes is an intriguing one.

 

[Jane Turner]

I'e startd a thread dedicated to the discussion or non discusion of Pigeons. Its in Rufled Feathers so Anthony, you will have to join that group if you want to post, assuming that you haven't done so already.