European Blue Butterflies for ID (2 Viewers)

[Tractorboy69]

Silver-studded Blue?

A couple of pics attached of a VERY faded blue for id confirmation.

It was taken in an area known for Silver-studded Blues, and I guess the lack of the cell spot on the underwing rules out Common Blue.

Brown Argus is the only other alternative in this part of the UK, but the lack of the mark in the centre of the upper forewing presumably rules that out too?

Your opinions are most appreciated.

Regards

Simon

 

[madamcoolpix]

I'd say it's an extremely ragged Silver-studded Blue, Simon! In spite of its deplorable state, I can guess the typical pattern in the area where the silvery spots should be. Brown Argus suits not your Butterfly... check post #5 here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=143959

for the clue features in the Brown Argus.

Let's wait and see what others think!

The pics are very good, by the way!!! o :clap: If you have more doubtful Blues, please don't hesitate to post them, we are eager to "play to ID" them!!!

And you, Gavia, thanks a lot for your confirmation!!! :t:

 

[Morg]

What a great thread.

Here is a butterfly that I photographed in early April in Southern Spain this year. I identified it as a female Common Blue. Looking at the pictures again today it strikes me that the spots in the cell are quite large, that the orange markings on the upperside is pretty extensive and that there is an interesting streak running parallel to the hindmargin of the forewing in the discal area that is just visible in a couple of the shots. Is this all within normal CB variation, is it normal for that part of Europe, or is it something else?

Many thanks

Geoff

 

[Gavia_immer]

Hi, Geoff!

I have checked very carefully your Blue and although I admit it has some peculiar marks and the orange extends a bit too far towards the tip, I still think it is a female Common Blue. The shape of the dots in the upperwing are a bit extrange but their position is right for CB. Plus it has white fringes and the cell spot. And very important, it was taken in early April in Spain. At that time of the year, only a very few Blues are on the move here. And the only ones that fly so early (like Panoptes Blue) cannot be confused with a Common Blue.

So, my vote goes for a female Common Blue too :t:

And regarding to Simon, I agree with Marian it is a Silver-spotted Blue.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

I took some more pics with a few Blues (presumed Brown Argus and Little Blue, if I'm not a very bad student!) and I will upload some soon.

 

[Gavia_immer]

I took some more pics with a few Blues (presumed Brown Argus and Little Blue, if I'm not a very bad student!) and I will upload some soon.

Looking forward to seeing them, Cristian!

 

[Cristian Mihai]

I would say: pic1 - common blue; pic 2,3,4 - brown argus; pic 5 - common blue (female);

 

[Cristian Mihai]

pic 6 and 7 - little blue; pic 8 - common blue (with a very small additional cell spot). Right or wrong?

 

[Jos Stratford]

Cristian, picture 6 and 7, look carefully at the rear of the wings - there is something sticking out which will help lead you to the correct identification.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Cristian, pics 1-5 and N. 8 are correctly IDed! Well, done! :t:

Cristian, picture 6 and 7, look carefully at the rear of the wings - there is something sticking out which will help lead you to the correct identification.

Yes, you have come across something new. Those little tails tell you that it isn't anything we have treated here before. It is a Short-tailed Blue (Everes argiades). Good species! I couldn't to find one last year.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Thank you very much for help Gavia & Jos.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Good species! I couldn't to find one last year.

Go north Gavia Abundant here, just coming onto the wing now.

 

[Gavia_immer]

Go north Gavia Abundant here, just coming onto the wing now.

That is good news. I always thought it was a local species. N Spain is the Southwestern border of its range. It isn't easy to find here.

You are truely tempting me to go northwards in my search of butterflies :-O

 

[Gavia_immer]

I have a mystery Blue for you all. It was taken last weekend in Soria Province. It was sipping in moistered soil in the company of Silver-studded, Ripart's Anomalous, Chalk-hill and Turquoise Blues. Yes, a feast of Blues o But I am unable to put a name to it. The kind of orange lunules tells me it isn't a Polyommatus. It doesn't have cell spot, it has white fringes (don't get confused by the shadows of the own wing) and the underwing pattern is the one of a Plebejus species. I cannot see a Silver-studded Blue there to safe my life. Plus the place was covered with Silver-studded Blues that look very different to this one. In the original pic, I cannot see a trace of studs of any kind.

I even thought it might be an aberrant Silver-studded Blue but there were at least 2 males and 1 female that had that pattern (got pics of those too).

If I have to be absolutely sincere, I think I know what it might be. But I prefer to see your opinion. I don't want to look like an idiot if it turns out to be something obvious and common, after giving lessons of Blues ID :-O

 

[jamesevry]

Female Zephyr blue???

 

[Gavia_immer]

Female Zephyr blue???

You have read my mind :t: Thanks a lot!!

Now that somebody else has said what I wanted to hear :-O I am going to give my own thoughts.

It has to be a Plebejus species, all the features match with those. There are only 3 species in Spain, Silver-studded Blue (by far the commonest, and I swear I have tried very hard to see one in my mystery Blue), Idas Blue (the orange lunules form a distinctive continuous orange band, my Blue doesn't) and Zephyr blue.

But Zephyr Blue is a very rare butterfly in Spain and what is worse, it has never been recorded in that area. And I saw at least 3 butterflies not just one :eek!::eek!: The Spanish form hespericus is bright turquoise blue on the upperwing and the orange lunules are tear-shaped. My Blue doesn't match very well with it. Surprisingly enough, it matches reasonably well with the oriental form sephirus. This is just impossible. Honestly, this is driving me mad |:S| :brains:

 

[Adey Baker]

I'm not familiar with a lot of these blues, but have you excluded Escher's Blue, Gavia, which is an Agrodiaetus species according to Tolman/Lewington?

 

[Gavia_immer]

I'm not familiar with a lot of these blues, but have you excluded Escher's Blue, Gavia, which is an Agrodiaetus species according to Tolman/Lewington?

Thanks a lot for your input, Adey. I am glad you mention Escher's Blue. I excluded all the Polyommatus/Agrodiaetus species mainly because of the pattern of the lunules. They don't look right. But if it weren't for that little detail, the general look of my mystery butterfly matchs pretty well with Escher's. Last night I checked hundreds of pics of Escher's Blue and still I am not convinced because of the lunules, which are well defined and almost completely surrounded by a very narrow black line. My butterfly only has black in one extreme of the lunules.

And then, I realised something else. My mystery blue was a little butterfly. In fact I didn't take notice of its presence in the middle of so many Silver-studded Blues till I checked my pics and then looked for it again to get more. Escher's Blue is a biggish butterfly, at least the size of a Chalk-hill Blue. Mine was small, perhaps a little bigger than the Silver-studded Blues but certainly smaller than the Chalk-hill Blues.

I couldn't get a shot of the upperwing, but both Escher's Blue and the Spanish form of Zephyr's are bright Blue. Mine was closer to the colour of a Silver-studded Blue, one of the reasons I tried so hard to see one in my mystery Blue.

If nobody reaches a definitive conclusion, I prefer to think it is an aberrant Escher's Blue (although I insist I saw 3 different specimens looking the same). It would be too good to be true that a new colony :eek!::eek!: of a different subspecies :eek!::eek!::eek!::eek!: of Zephyr's Blue has been found in an area of Spain where they have never been reported. That sounds like fiction science :'D I have been almost convinced for days, but then common sense brought me back to reality :-O

 

[jamesevry]

Yes, Escher's looks much more likely, but if it is an "aberrant" Eschers, counldn't it be an aberrant chapmans... or am i completely wrong! In my opinion (which can't be trusted), its a weirdo Eschers...

prehaps pics of others could help?

 

[Gavia_immer]

Yes, Escher's looks much more likely, but if it is an "aberrant" Eschers, counldn't it be an aberrant chapmans... or am i completely wrong! In my opinion (which can't be trusted), its a weirdo Eschers...

prehaps pics of others could help?

Excellent point, James :t:. In fact, the size and the upperwing colour I saw would be much closer to a Chapman's than to an Escher's.

However, I look at my pic and cannot see a Chapman's. It is the lunules, always the lunules. Chapman's is not a very variable species here in Spain. The lunules are long, pointed and triangular with a narrow black border in the apex of the triangule. Very distinctive. Mine doesn't look like that at all.

I have done some research about Eschers' and I did read that the orange lunules are very variable in this species, particularly in females. That would be an explanation for the odd looking lunules of my butterfly. And, do you remember Marian's mystery Blue of some time ago? It had a funny upper colour, very extrange for an Escher's, but an Escher's after all. Looking closely, it could be the kind of colour I saw. Both were seen in N Spain, about 100 Km away from each other.

I will come back tonight and post some more pics for comparison.

Thanks a lot, you guys, for your help with this! :t: