Hello! Need help identifying (1 Viewer)

[Boldthorne]

Hello! I'm looking for someone to potentially help identify some birds in a tapestry. I believe they are all species of south american royal fly catcher. However, I came here seeking more knowledgeable mi ds because I'm a bug guy, and not typically a bird guy lol. I was a tour guide in south Florida years ago so i know a lot of the ones from that area but little outside of it. I'll include a few different variations of the tapestry. Thank you in advance for any help!

 

[delia todd]

Hi Boldthorne and a warm welcome to you from all the Staff and Moderators. I'll move your post to the ID forum to see if they can help you at all.

I'm sure you will enjoy it here and I look forward to hearing your news.

 

[Kits]

Welcome to Birdforum.

 

[Chris G6 UXU]

Hello and welcome to the forum, enjoy and all the best.

 

[THE_FERN]

Hello! I'm looking for someone to potentially help identify some birds in a tapestry. I believe they are all species of south american royal fly catcher. However, I came here seeking more knowledgeable mi ds because I'm a bug guy, and not typically a bird guy lol. I was a tour guide in south Florida years ago so i know a lot of the ones from that area but little outside of it. I'll include a few different variations of the tapestry. Thank you in advance for any help! View attachment 1617269View attachment 1617270View attachment 1617271

Not from the Americas, more like south asia. The bottom left looks like hoopoe, top left perhaps orange-headed thrush [looking at the middle version]. The birds in this are highly stylised, only approximately relatable to actual species imho.

 

[nartreb]

Agreed, the style is reminiscent of Persian "tree of life" tapestries and especially the variations which emerged in northern India. If you have a better idea of the origins of your tapestries, you will have a head start in finding which birds might be local to the artist (or at least were likely to have been copied from earlier art that was made elsewhere).
I can't read two of the signatures, but "Gamal" would point me towards the Muslim world... (with the fact he's using Latin letters suggesting the art is intended for export?)
Unfortunately there's clearly a great deal of artistic license taken, so you might not be able to pin them down with any confidence, but it's interesting that the bird in a given position shares a lot of characteristics across the three images. Ignore all the weird and varying colors of the bird at bottom left, and focus on the fact it's got a big crest and a curved bill, we conclude it's practically certain to be a hoopoe.
The middle bird on the right always has a stripe through its eye; that might be identifiable too. (Shrike?)
The upper bird at left has an interesting swirl behind its eye... maybe a highly stylized falcon?

 

[Boldthorne]

Not from the Americas, more like south asia. The bottom left looks like hoopoe, top left perhaps orange-headed thrush [looking at the middle version]. The birds in this are highly stylised, only approximately relatable to actual species imho.

I had another thought since then. Northern America. Bottom left is a road runner. The one just above it with its wings spread is a bluebird. Not sure about what the other 3 look like in real life yet. But I'm assuming SE united states now.

 

[THE_FERN]

I had another thought since then. Northern America. Bottom left is a road runner. The one just above it with its wings spread is a bluebird. Not sure about what the other 3 look like in real life yet. But I'm assuming SE united states now.

Not to my eye. South Asia as per above discussion. The style also does not equate to any native or modernist American style I'm aware of. But you can decide what you think they are

 

[Boldthorne]

Not to my eye. South Asia as per above discussion. The style also does not equate to any native or modernist American style I'm aware of. But you can decide what you think they are

I appreciate the input! I'm chasing a weird theory i have so attempting to identify these birds is a long shot anyways. However, with what you said in mind what species do you think they could potentially be? And remember, be creative. Somebody made this as art, what bird do you imagine they had in their mind when painting it?

 

[nartreb]

Bill is way too long for a road-runner. Look at photos of hoopoes to compare.

It's a hoopoe -- if there were any reasonable doubt, some birder on this site would have voiced it by now.

I have no idea what led you to think of South America or southeastern United States. (Did you mean southwestern? There are no roadrunners in the southeastern US.) I suppose it's possible the art was made one of those places in some exodan community, but the art looks like it was made in India or thereabouts. These images are part of a thousand-year tradition, if not longer.

If your weird theory (as you call it) is incompatible with the idea that the bird in bottom left is a Hoopoe, you should discard your weird theory.

PS your "bluebird" has stripes across its belly in at least two of the images. Maybe a cuckoo?

 

[Cheadle Hulme]

The original image, of which the OP's images are tidied-up reproductions painted on papyrus, is a wall painting in the Dynasty XII tomb of Khnumhotep II at Beni Hasan, Egypt.

 

[Mike Earp]

The original image, of which the OP's images are tidied-up reproductions painted on papyrus, is a wall painting in the Dynasty XII tomb of Khnumhotep II at Beni Hasan, Egypt.

See here and here for the original and suggestions on the birds' identities.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

So going after the original (Just looking at picture and not reading the text), I´d say hoopoe was correct for the lower left; and the upper two, the one with the spread wings and the one above it , are masked shrikes, while the one on the right below those two is a redbacked shrike, while the lower right is common redstart ....

You´d never have guessed the ones beside the hoopoe looking at the repro shown by Boldthorne, but it seems obvious to me that the Egyptian tomb painting is the original after which boldthornes tapestries were created ...

Thanks for digging that up, Cheadle Hulme and Mike Earp!

 

[nartreb]

Boldthorne's images aren't tapestries, as Hulme pointed out. That really threw me off; if I had recognized papyrus I wouldn't have led myself astray via Persia.

 

[MacNara]

Some of you might be interested in the following publication, free download:

OIMP 35. Between Heaven and Earth: Birds in Ancient Egypt | Institute for the Study of Ancient Cultures

Purchase Download Terms of Use

isac.uchicago.edu

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Some of you might be interested in the following publication, free download:

OIMP 35. Between Heaven and Earth: Birds in Ancient Egypt | Institute for the Study of Ancient Cultures

Purchase Download Terms of Use

isac.uchicago.edu

I do think there are some misidentifications, or people being too optimistic about their identification, but nevertheless , very interesting- Thanks Mac Nara!