I cannot See China bins! (1 Viewer)

[Maljunulo]

It looks as if the big guns are farming out more of their second and third tier glass to China.

 

[GeorgeL]

Don’t hate China, hate the company.

 

[jan van daalen]

I believe Meopta outsources a lot of the manufacturing of their Optika and Meopro lines but I think they cut and grind glass right their in Czech Republic.

Leica clearly outsources some of their things such as the erector and turret systems in their new rifle scopes.

Operating as a OEM, Meopta's production differs from that of Swarovski, Zeiss and Leica.
Where the last three in Absam, Oberkochen and Portugal cut, grind, polish and coat their own lenses and the workforce know for what article they produce for, in Prerov Meopta produces (cut, grind etc) lenses and prisms also for third parties and Meopta's workforce just produce according to the given specs but don't know for who or for what it is.

Jan

 

[Mono]

Don’t hate China, hate the company.

Why hate anybody?

The same company with the same design enforcing the same quality control could build $400 product made in China, a $600 product assembled in the US from Chinese made parts or a $1200 product made entirely from US produced parts. Which would you prefer?

 

[Maljunulo]

Are those real numbers from a cite-able source,or do they just sound good?

 

[diverdude1]

Hi dude,

Welcome to BF and thanks for your honest response.
The discussion about A brands outsourcing to China is going on for quite a while now and count two parties. The ones who don't care where it comes from as long as the product is good and the ones who won't accept a A brand that accept outsourcing (read: loose QC).
Personally I belong to the second half.

Having said all this, sample variation is the end result of poor QC and/or cutting corners during production by the OEM but also due to lack of interest (read: cheaper) of the commissioner.

AFAIK both Leica and Meopta outsource also and Swarovski doesn't.

Jan

Interesting to read this. I research Alpha Brands for fun in the evening, and I keep coming back to Leica (I own a Leica camera, extremely pleased with quality even if it is the cheap, Japan outsourced model- D Lux Top 109). I am then drawn to Zeiss, but I cannot seem to take a liking to the Swaro's, even though they continuously seem to garner higher ratings. I luv the new Leica Trinovid 10x40, but wow,,, costs more than an Apple MacBook Pro! Or very close to same anyway. 12,200¥

 

[diverdude1]

If you want a better bin than the terra, then get the Vortex Viper HD (MIC) or Nikon Monarch 7 (I think MIC). You will be hard pressed to find a good binocular in this price range not made in China. Buy a Viper HD

Viper seems hard to find here... Luv the Monarch 5 (5S ?), but here it costs more than the Terra.

 

[jan van daalen]

Interesting to read this. I research Alpha Brands for fun in the evening, and I keep coming back to Leica (I own a Leica camera, extremely pleased with quality even if it is the cheap, Japan outsourced model- D Lux Top 109). I am then drawn to Zeiss, but I cannot seem to take a liking to the Swaro's, even though they continuously seem to garner higher ratings. I luv the new Leica Trinovid 10x40, but wow,,, costs more than an Apple MacBook Pro! Or very close to same anyway. 12,200¥

Yes, when the Retrovid came out we had it taken apart to see if there was any oriental origin in it, which there apparently wasn't. Well made in Portugal by Leica which explains the high price. The HD version (like theZeiss Conquest) is from oriental origine though and for that reason cheaper.

Jan

 

[Mono]

Are those real numbers from a cite-able source,or do they just sound good?

The figures are from a YouTube review of red-dot sights, sorry can't remember the source. So whilst not exactly binoculars it gives a ball park feeling for the relative manufacturing costs.

 

[diverdude1]

Yes, when the Retrovid came out we had it taken apart to see if there was any oriental origin in it, which there apparently wasn't. Well made in Portugal by Leica which explains the high price. The HD version (like theZeiss Conquest) is from oriental origine though and for that reason cheaper.

Jan

Thanks for the info. I did check-out the HD and now see why it is considerably cheaper. But uggh, it still has that 'clone' look about it.

 

[diverdude1]

On a bit of a side note, may I ask why it seems the Steiner brand is never mentioned when discussing First-rate optics, let alone Alpha class? I understand them to be high-quality German made. ummm, what am I missing?

 

[PeterPS]

Steiner make binos for law enforcement and military/navy, they are made to be robust but according to many experts their optics is not alpha quality, with the exception of a few models (such as ShadowQuest / Nighthunter 56mm)

 

[jring]

On a bit of a side note, may I ask why it seems the Steiner brand is never mentioned when discussing First-rate optics, let alone Alpha class? I understand them to be high-quality German made. ummm, what am I missing?

Hi,

as for whether all Steiner optics is Made in Germany (as I think their website stated some time ago), I would not bet on that...
Nowadays their US site states "All Steiner binoculars come from Germany." (FAQs) - whatever that might mean, while the german FAQ doesn't have any of this (Häufige Fragen |)...
Also, as has been discussed, Made in Germany does not really mean all parts were made in Germany and leaves quite a lot of room for creative interpretation of the rules...

And yes, most of the Steiner range is so-so at best. Some of their top tier models are competitive in their price brackets, but the brand is not much loved here due to their strong affiliation with a pastime not on topic in this forum and also due to their misleading at best "Sports Auto Focus"...

Joachim

 

[Maljunulo]

I had a pair of Steiner 15(?)X80.

They resolved Mizar nicely, and were pretty decent overall, until I knocked the tripod over one night and bumped them out of alignment.

I sent them off to someone (I forget who it was) and was informed that they weren't worth what it would cost to fix them.

So passed quite a few hundred dollars right down the drain.

Bad mechanical design.

 

[jan van daalen]

On a bit of a side note, may I ask why it seems the Steiner brand is never mentioned when discussing First-rate optics, let alone Alpha class? I understand them to be high-quality German made. ummm, what am I missing?

What you are missing is the fact that a Italian firearm producer bought Steiner, outsourced the production for the most part to your country, kept the prices high and "Made in Germany".

Jan

 

[diverdude1]

What you are missing is the fact that a Italian firearm producer bought Steiner, outsourced the production for the most part to your country, kept the prices high and "Made in Germany".

Jan

Very interesting! Thx Jan

 

[mTown]

What you are missing is the fact that a Italian firearm producer bought Steiner, outsourced the production for the most part to your country, kept the prices high and "Made in Germany".

Jan

Sorry, but I can't let your statement stand without proof. Of course, you can assume that the majority of Steiner entry-level products are partly pre-manufactured/pre-assembled abroad/China(?). However, there are several videos (also current ones from 2018 - 2020, see Youtube) and reports/interviews where you can see how binoculars of different types are manufactured at Steiner HQ in Bayreuth/Germany (lenses ground, assembled, checked etc.). And nevertheless, all models are then finalized in Bayreuth according to Steiner's statement (whatever that may mean), see e. g. Interview with Steiner (use for example google translator for english).

I have done a little research on the subject as this interests me myself (also because I come from Germany) and I am currently comparing a pair of Steiner binoculars to other binoculars. And by the way (@diverdude1 ) if there are specific questions about the manufacturing of the binoculars, you could just ask Steiner customer service.

 

[Nethero]

I am currently comparing a pair of Steiner binoculars to other binoculars.

mTown,

Speaking of which, do you have any updates on your impressions of the Discovery 8x44? A full review would be interesting, though it might need posted in your original thread.

 

[jan van daalen]

Sorry, but I can't let your statement stand without proof. Of course, you can assume that the majority of Steiner entry-level products are partly pre-manufactured/pre-assembled abroad/China(?). However, there are several videos (also current ones from 2018 - 2020, see Youtube) and reports/interviews where you can see how binoculars of different types are manufactured at Steiner HQ in Bayreuth/Germany (lenses ground, assembled, checked etc.). And nevertheless, all models are then finalized in Bayreuth according to Steiner's statement (whatever that may mean), see e. g. Interview with Steiner (use for example google translator for english).

I have done a little research on the subject as this interests me myself (also because I come from Germany) and I am currently comparing a pair of Steiner binoculars to other binoculars. And by the way (@diverdude1 ) if there are specific questions about the manufacturing of the binoculars, you could just ask Steiner customer service.

Last time I visited the Steiner facility in Bayruth (a couple of years back) I only saw the production of Porro binoculars and asked one of the staff that was buzzie producing them where the roof prism binoculars were and the answer was: "roofprisms binoculars? We don't produce roof prism binoculars here".
We sell Steiner products for more then 20 years now and stopped selling roof prism bins of Steiner due to the mass of return rate (focus issues and plastic eyecups probs specially on that Discovery 44 model) since some Italian company took over the place.

That leaves us who to believe? The PR, Marketing, Sales, YouTubes or the actual Manufacturing Force.

Jan

 

[dries1]

Customer service is an oxymoron these days.