qwerty5
Controversial opinion generator
Any form of argument is valid for Dennis, apparently...
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I tried a slug of $1K roof-prism binoculars and I think the Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32 is still the best for the money! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dennis Mau
- Start date
CharleyBird
Well-known member
Quotes and illustrations/examples are surely part of arguing a point?
cottonbase
Well-known member
Seriously?!?
Most people's decisions are based on exactly that argument.
But I get that you were just taking a dig at Denco. Maybe stick to the useful advice rather than sniping. There's always the "off" button.
If more people are in agreement with your argument, it does "support" your argument. A lot of this stuff we talk about is just personal preference, but if 100 people agree with you that yes the Habicht 8x30 W does have quite a bit of glare, chances are you are going to have some glare issues with them.
Well Dennis, there was a time when you would have been able to find many, many folks who agreed that the earth was flat, but it (stubbornly) remained more-or-less spherical.
The number of people who agree with an argument does not make it correct.
Perhaps a general statement that "It seems that many people see glare with such-and-such an optic." (especially when they go looking for it) should be about as far as we can reasonably go.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
Again , I didn’t say there wasn’t some glare affects on Habicht design, please read my post. But that doesn’t make it a glare monster as you describe, (maybe because of your condition). We could get more than 100 people to say they have issues with a design of the conquest eyecups. That doesn’t make it an eye cup disaster monster. The fact that the conquest has this eye cup issue or the Habicht’s has a slight issue with glare doesn’t mean that they’re not both extremely good optical tools.
Unless of course you have some issues with your eyes that are making the glare more pronounced for you.
i notice the glare only in certain lighting conditions with the Habicht’s. Like many other fine binoculars that have glare in certain other lighting conditions. To call it a glare monster is almost to say it’s not A usable Binocular which is ridiculous.
if I get 100 opticians to say that it sounds like you have an eye problem based on some of your posts , does that make it true.
Thank you
Paultricounty
Well-known member
Every binocular is different for everybody. You may not notice glare in the Habicht 8x30 W at all. Good luck with that!
"Winged eye cups can only shield the eye from reflections coming from the back glass to air surface of the eyepiece. They don't address the two main sources of glare in the 8x30 Habicht. Those are a shiny unbaffled metal retaining ring at the edge of the objective lens and undersized prisms which intrude into the edge of the exit pupils at about 4:00 on the right side and 8:00 on the left side."
Henry Link
Like Quote
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Try a Leica Ultravid HD 8x32 or a Zeiss 8x56 Fl or a Swarovski 8x56 SLC. No glare. It is not the eyes. It is in the baffling, and usually a bigger exit pupil binocular will have less glare because the glare never reaches the eye.
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Paultricounty
Well-known member
It must be your eyes because it doesn’t appear that you’re reading what I’m saying.🤪
After you miss quoted me again you come to my conclusion, that every binocular could be a little different for everybody, some see more glare than others. You made my point multiple times even as your miss quoting me.
I have the Ultavid 8x32 and it has very little glare issues. My 10x56 SLC does have a little glare issue, but nothing to speak of. I can spend hours on a sunny day with the Habichts and most of the time there’s no issues , unless you try to find it or, there are eye issues.
Please try to read my responses a few times before responding so we can stay on topic and not have to correct you on what I had said every time.
thank you
Merry Christmas
Dennis, I'm not talking about binoculars .......... I am talking about bare, naked, unadorned human eyeballs.
They do not handle backlighting very well.
Sunglasses?
"I can spend hours on a sunny day with the Habichts and most of the time there are no issues, unless you try to find it or, there are eye issues."
Wow, that is impressive! I think honestly that is the first time I have ever heard that. You are very fortunate to enjoy the exceptional Habicht 8x30 W view with no glare. The Habicht 10x40 W has little glare and the Habicht 7x42 doesn't really have any glare, but I always personally had a lot of veiling glare with the Habicht 8x30 W, like many others have reported. Do you use any eye shields or objective shades of any kind?
"Internal reflections
This is the one serious flaw in this glass. Especially with open pupil, the image is plagued by internal reflections of light sources or high contrast situations. Standing in a dark wood with bright patches of sunlight would be one example. The Nikon SE is way better in this respect. I built a sunshade which will not eliminate but reduce flare and ghosting."
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Paultricounty
Well-known member
I’m not sure how to reply to you anymore. Maybe it’s a language barrier or something. When your reading and getting ready to reply to these posts (I’m not alone here), do you wear reading glasses?
Did you not read in three posts that I agree the 8x30 has some glare issues, but not terrible IMO. Did you miss that? I don’t know where you get that, I’m the lucky one who’s Habicht doesn’t have any glare. It’s like you’re making up things up that people said in previous posts.
No sunshades , I may shade the objectives with my hands if necessary. But it’s generally not an issue that’s evident throughout the observing session. Maybe for you, because your eyes may be more sensitive or prone to glare than other people‘s eyes. But I don’t go in the woods specifically looking for ways to find glare , so I can report back on a forum about issues with binos I don’t have.
That seems kind of counterproductive to enjoying an extremely high-quality, bright and sharp Binoculars.
I do have short rubber eye cup extensions that also may help a bit, but it wasn’t much of a problem before I put them on.
Please stop putting words in my mouth ✌🏼
Merry Christmas
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Those eye cup extensions are nice! They solve the problem of the often times too short eye cups on the Habicht 8x30 W. I bet that helps with glare.
"I can spend hours on a sunny day with the Habichts and most of the time there are no issues, unless you try to find it or, there are eye issues."
In this quote by you, I interpret this as meaning you have no issues with glare in the Habicht's. Often times there is misunderstanding on posts like this on a forum because you don't hear the inflections from the spoken word. Sorry, if you think I am misinterpreting your posts!
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Paultricounty
Well-known member
No worries, I understand.
The rubber eye cup extensions do help a little with the eye relief, it makes it more comfortable for longer observing sessions. They very well may help some with glare because you can get them more snug to your eye sockets.
As per my quote of being able to spend hours on sunny days with Habicht (8x30W) , with no issues with glare, MOST OF THE TIME, that didn’t mean all the time, and doesn’t include actually looking for it.
So in day to day use with the 8x30 Habicht, I find them to be an extremely high quality, incredibly sharp binoculars with a DOF thats absolutely delicious, as well as very usable. IMO there is no roof on the market in the $1000 price point that comes close to the image quality and immersive feel as the Habicht’s. Not even at higher price points.
Again we’re here nitpicking, because that’s what we do and enjoy it, at least quite a few of us. We talk about some people having glare issues with the 8x30 Habicht, we can point out all the issues (or call them monsters of this or that) with every so called Alpha on the market. The Leica Noctivid and UVHD have some CA and edge distortion, the Zeiss SF has some rolling ball and some orange thingy that I’ve heard some complain about. And the Swarovski‘s have some glare issues.
All of these slight imperfections of these highest quality optics are noticeable more to some than others, but in my opinion in no way shape or form would I describe these minor optical design flaws as monsters. The thing that got me on the matt with you (my Judo/BJJ reference) was calling the glare issue on the Habicht’s a glare monster is like saying they’re not usable. That would be like me saying that the terrible eye cups on the conquest makes them unusable.
Merry Christmas
I agree on the Habicht's. They are outstanding optically and every time I try them again I am wowed by them. It is like getting reacquainted with an old good friend. Your posts make me want to try them again! Maybe if I get some eye cups like you have, it would help with the glare I had. I have glare with a lot of binoculars on sunny, bright days. I had a pair of Zeiss SF 10x32, and although they were excellent binoculars, I even had glare with them in certain situations. So I think almost all binoculars can show some glare. The best binoculars I have seen for glare are the huge aperture 8x56's like the Zeiss FL and Swarovski SLC. I don't think the glare ever reaches your eyes too much with those. I am trying a pair of Leica UVHD 8x42's since I heard they are pretty good with glare being well baffled.
henry link
Well-known member
Glare questions don't always have to come down to disagreements over subjective impressions. There are objective ways to observe the presence of the internal reflections that cause glare. If those reflections are totally baffled no one will see any glare even under the worst lighting conditions. If those reflections are present, unbaffled and allowed to enter the eye everyone will see glare. Below are a couple of photos I made yesterday to show the sources of glare in one binocular and the absence of any sources of glare in another.
Both binoculars were mounted on the same tripod and pointed at the same dark spot on the shaded north wall of my house. The sun is over the peak of the roof about 25º above the line of sight of the binoculars with sunlight falling on the objective lenses and penetrating into the area of the interior in front of the prisms. The photos show the interiors of the binoculars as seen through the eyepieces. It should be obvious to everyone which binocular has the potential to show veiling glare if its unbaffled internal reflections enter the eye and which one will show no veiling glare at all under exactly the same conditions because it has no unbaffled internal reflections that could potentially enter the eye.
The binocular on the left is a Swarovski 8x30 W Habicht and the one on the right is a Canon 10x32 IS. When I look through the eyepieces I see exactly what the photos predict; a wash of unfocused veiling glare that almost completely obscures bottom half of the view of the dark wall in the Habicht image and a clean glare free image of wall in the Canon.
Both binoculars were mounted on the same tripod and pointed at the same dark spot on the shaded north wall of my house. The sun is over the peak of the roof about 25º above the line of sight of the binoculars with sunlight falling on the objective lenses and penetrating into the area of the interior in front of the prisms. The photos show the interiors of the binoculars as seen through the eyepieces. It should be obvious to everyone which binocular has the potential to show veiling glare if its unbaffled internal reflections enter the eye and which one will show no veiling glare at all under exactly the same conditions because it has no unbaffled internal reflections that could potentially enter the eye.
The binocular on the left is a Swarovski 8x30 W Habicht and the one on the right is a Canon 10x32 IS. When I look through the eyepieces I see exactly what the photos predict; a wash of unfocused veiling glare that almost completely obscures bottom half of the view of the dark wall in the Habicht image and a clean glare free image of wall in the Canon.
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