Is the 8x32 Victory SF really worth almost 2.5x the cost of the 8x32 Conquest HD? (1 Viewer)

[CSG]

I too almost bought an 8x32 Conquest during a sale and regret I didn't.
TBH, my feeling is the SF is just a 1/5 size market study for the next Conquest, and people are paying for the privilege of seeing the future today

Edmund

Interesting take. You might be right.

 

[CSG]

I still am very tempted, in spite of what I said earlier in this thread, to order the 8x32 Swaro NL and 8x32 Zeiss SF before the end of the year. Just so I know. If one of them works better for me than my recent Leica experience, I'll probably keep one. Like many of us here, I'm at a stage in life where, with some things, I can afford the best. The struggle I always have is whether or not I need the best.

 

[Paultricounty]

Paul... I have not experienced either of those with my three SFs.

As for comparison of the 8x32 SF to 8x32 UVHD+, I still haven't found a situation where CA is of note with either.

I will say that the "picture" presented with the SF is wonderful. But, with the UVHD+, fantastic! More punch, contrast, clarity, detail, and a touch more saturation with the Leicas.

As I mentioned earlier, these Leica UVHD+ binoculars present to my eyes the most enjoyably beautiful image of any binoculars I've owned or tested, Zeiss SF, Zeiss Conquest HD, Swarovski NL and CL, Opticron Traveller included.

Spent some time with the SF today. I see what you mean about the focuser, that’s about as good as focusers get. The focuser, the balance and how it feels in the hand adds to the whole package. I could tell that this is one of those binoculars that they get better and more appreciated the more you use them.

The optics as you described are very, very nice. Had a sunny day with relatively low sun so a good test for an hour Or so. Two things popped out , very bright and very , very sharp. Eye box is nice, you can get right into those eyecups an immersive view.

Every time I try out a true alpha 8x30/32 bino I’m reminded of how good the Kowa Genesis is. When people talk about the cost of the Zeiss it’s fully understandable that’s it’s a lot to spend two thirds more money for a very incremental improvement in optics.

Yes the SF is brighter , yes it’s shaper and somewhat more immersive but I think your paying for more than just that. Unless we’ve all fooled ourselves to justify the price there’s more to it than just the optics. It’s the whole package, optics, balance, focuser , design and feel that one can say, I got the best of the best.

I will be replacing them with another pair due to the exterior powdery rubber issue. But these seem like keepers. The Ultravids coming next week. Looking forward to a side by side. Thanks for your in depth description it was very helpful. I’m hoping I get to see the delicious in the Ultravids.

Paul

 

[Paultricounty]

I haven't seen this on my SFs but it reminds me that when I worked in a rubber industry for some products our factory included a special wax in the rubber compound and this migrated to the surface of the rubber and provided a level of protection for the rubber. It looked white and kind of powdery and was effective in maintaining the rubber's properties when the product was stored in less than perfect conditions. So maybe don't assume your white powder is something bad.

Lee

thanks for the info. I did speak to Zeiss customer service and was told they have never encountered this complaint and can’t say what it could be. It’s certainly not age like it was sitting on a shelf for 5 years considering based on serial number it was manufactured in May of 21. They suggest a return and replacement. I agree. For over $2000 that’s not acceptable.

 

[ZDHart]

thanks for the info. I did speak to Zeiss customer service and was told they have never encountered this complaint and can’t say what it could be. It’s certainly not age like it was sitting on a shelf for 5 years considering based on serial number it was manufactured in May of 21. They suggest a return and replacement. I agree. For over $2000 that’s not acceptable.

Wise approach. Don't keep, hoping you might be ok with things, then winding up returning for service or repair. Just switch it out from the get go and move forward. I think you'll be fine with the next pair. And I think you'll absolutely love the "view" with the UVHD+.

 

[eronald]

Interesting take. You might be right.

Ideally, that would be the way to go - invest in a nice design that might possibly be mass produced, make it in a luxury version, figure out from user feedback and your own repair facility what needs to be tuned, revise it so it's cheaper but has the most interesting bits eg. the fast focuser and weight distribution, and can still be based on Kamakura modules, and turn it into a Conquest

IMO, the bleeding edge is the reputational marketing tool for the company - while the midrange is where the real money is made, but also the place where fumbles hurt the most.

In old film photo terms, one might say that The Nikon F series was what the professionals used in theory and where Nikon got its reputation, but in fact the Nikkormat line was what just about everybody used and where Nikon made its real money.

Edmund

 

[Troubador]

There is one easily measurable difference between SF8x32 and Conquest HD 8x32 and this is just one of the reasons I love them both. Using my standard test to estimate their focusing speeds I found that the Conquest is around twice as fast as the SF. My test is to focus on a building that I know to be 4km/2.5 miles away and then estimate the number of rotations of the focusing wheel it takes to refocus onto a point in my office about 2 metres from my workplace. The SF takes about 1.1 rotations (similar to Zeiss's HT 8x42) and the Conquest 0.5. So Conquest is quick but is actually only a little faster than Zeiss's own FL8x32 so Zeiss has 'previous' of giving us quick focusers as well as slower ones.

How do these focus speeds work in the field? For me they both work really well with SF being especially suited to habitats where I value fine focusing accuracy and Conquest in habitats where subjects are likely to pop up rapidly at both close and far distances and I need a quick focuser to get a view of them all, without wasting time pumping the focus wheel. Having said all that, I use both binos in all kinds of habitats and on all kinds of subjects and am so glad I have them both.

Lee

 

[Paultricounty]

Wise approach. Don't keep, hoping you might be ok with things, then winding up returning for service or repair. Just switch it out from the get go and move forward. I think you'll be fine with the next pair. And I think you'll absolutely love the "view" with the UVHD+.

That’s so funny you say that. I was so happy with the optics I kept saying to my self, it’s not so bad I could wipe them down and hopefully the left eyecup will loosen up a bit, and the focuser is perfect maybe the next set could be worse 🙄. I'm so curious as to how the Ultravids will improve on these Zeiss. Two totally different approaches from their manufactures on where they want to go optically as far as FOV, DOF, contrast, color, edge performance and so on. With a 180° Difference in form factor. I’ve never had this much tun comparing two binoculars. Thank you for your informative posts. Have a happy and healthy thanksgiving to you and yours.

 

[ZDHart]

That’s so funny you say that. I was so happy with the optics I kept saying to my self, it’s not so bad I could wipe them down and hopefully the left eyecup will loosen up a bit, and the focuser is perfect maybe the next set could be worse 🙄. I'm so curious as to how the Ultravids will improve on these Zeiss. Two totally different approaches from their manufactures on where they want to go optically as far as FOV, DOF, contrast, color, edge performance and so on. With a 180° Difference in form factor. I’ve never had this much tun comparing two binoculars. Thank you for your informative posts. Have a happy and healthy thanksgiving to you and yours.

Thank you, Paul... and I wish a happy and healthy Thanksgiving to you, as well.

The Ultravids and the SFs are, as you mentioned, dramatically different in approach and design, yet each is so wonderful in their own ways. I do find the optical view of the UVHD+ to have a slight edge over the SF, to my taste. The Leicas definitely have a special look and form factor. The crisp clarity, fine detail, and beautiful color quality is quite enchanting. But that doesn't keep me from using my SFs just as much, as their view is great... just not quite as "enchanting" to my eyes.

I'm a retired commercial photographer; beautiful color quality and image sharpness have always been at the heart of my lifetime work. Both Leica's and Nikon's similar approach to color quality, color saturation, and sharpness have been my favorites in photography. They may not be quite as color "neutral" as some other brand's approaches (Zeiss and Canon, for example), but they've always been exceptionally beautiful in the image delivered to the eyes.

As for the fun of exploring and comparing binoculars... it was a blast of a summer for me. Over about two months I bought and compared quite a few bins: three SFs, five UVHD+ models, an NL pure, a Terra, and a Traveller. I spent a few weeks very closely comparing and evaluating, to decide which to keep. It was a great, informative, and fun exercise.

In the end, I kept three SFs and three UVHD+ models, to join my two Conquest HDs that I had been using for going on 8 years. It was an expensive summer, but worth it. (But a much less costly hobby than our local (Scottsdale) passion for golf, for example. )

 

[Paultricounty]

Thank you, Paul... and I wish a happy and healthy Thanksgiving to you, as well.

The Ultravids and the SFs are, as you mentioned, dramatically different in approach and design, yet each is so wonderful in their own ways. I do find the optical view of the UVHD+ to have a slight edge over the SF, to my taste. The Leicas definitely have a special look and form factor. The crisp clarity, fine detail, and beautiful color quality is quite enchanting. But that doesn't keep me from using my SFs just as much, as their view is great... just not quite as "enchanting" to my eyes.

I'm a retired commercial photographer; beautiful color quality and image sharpness have always been at the heart of my lifetime work. Both Leica's and Nikon's similar approach to color quality, color saturation, and sharpness have been my favorites in photography. They may not be quite as color "neutral" as some other brand's approaches (Zeiss and Canon, for example), but they've always been exceptionally beautiful in the image delivered to the eyes.

As for the fun of exploring and comparing binoculars... it was a blast of a summer for me. Over about two months I bought and compared quite a few bins: three SFs, five UVHD+ models, an NL pure, a Terra, and a Traveller. I spent a few weeks very closely comparing and evaluating, to decide which to keep. It was a great, informative, and fun exercise.

In the end, I kept three SFs and three UVHD+ models, to join my two Conquest HDs that I had been using for going on 8 years. It was an expensive summer, but worth it. (But a much less costly hobby than our local (Scottsdale) passion for golf, for example. )

I had a very similar experience starting in early spring. I went on a binocular hunting tour, more like a addiction binge that is ongoing to this day. I’m running out of binos to try as well as money. I tried the following;
Meopta, Hawke, Nikon M7, MHG, Steiner predator, Swaro SLC, EL, NL, two habichts, Zeiss conquest Leica trinovids and now SF and Ultravids. What a blast. A lot of reading, researching , observing and returning. I even bought some old Nikon & Zeiss Jena porros from the 70’s.

I enjoyed every minute of it. I had a half dozen defective binos out of that bunch. Dust & bubbles in optics, cracks in the lens cells, bad focusers and different coating colors in objective lenses. And other than the Steiner’s every Binocular was over $400. So no cheap junk in there at all. Can’t imagine sampling a dozen cheap entry level binos. In the end I kept about a dozen of them. Had to sell a few nice long arms to justify ( to the wifey) the purchases. Always liked the elegance of the Leica’s but was turned off from the experience with two Trinovids I tried due to the CA , not to mention the lousy experience with the local retailer. Great property you got there. Again Thanks for the input.

Happy Thanksgiving
Paul

 

[ZDHart]

I had a very similar experience starting in early spring. I went on a binocular hunting tour, more like a addiction binge that is ongoing to this day. I’m running out of binos to try as well as money. I tried the following;
Meopta, Hawke, Nikon M7, MHG, Steiner predator, Swaro SLC, EL, NL, two habichts, Zeiss conquest Leica trinovids and now SF and Ultravids. What a blast. A lot of reading, researching , observing and returning. I even bought some old Nikon & Zeiss Jena porros from the 70’s.

I enjoyed every minute of it. I had a half dozen defective binos out of that bunch. Dust & bubbles in optics, cracks in the lens cells, bad focusers and different coating colors in objective lenses. And other than the Steiner’s every Binocular was over $400. So no cheap junk in there at all. Can’t imagine sampling a dozen cheap entry level binos. In the end I kept about a dozen of them. Had to sell a few nice long arms to justify ( to the wifey) the purchases. Always liked the elegance of the Leica’s but was turned off from the experience with two Trinovids I tried due to the CA , not to mention the lousy experience with the local retailer. Great property you got there. Again Thanks for the input.

Happy Thanksgiving
Paul

Wow! You HAVE been having a lot of fun exploring binoculars! It's an enjoyable pastime (exploring and viewing).

 

[Rg548]

I had a very similar experience starting in early spring. I went on a binocular hunting tour, more like a addiction binge that is ongoing to this day. I’m running out of binos to try as well as money. I tried the following;
Meopta, Hawke, Nikon M7, MHG, Steiner predator, Swaro SLC, EL, NL, two habichts, Zeiss conquest Leica trinovids and now SF and Ultravids. What a blast. A lot of reading, researching , observing and returning. I even bought some old Nikon & Zeiss Jena porros from the 70’s.

I enjoyed every minute of it. I had a half dozen defective binos out of that bunch. Dust & bubbles in optics, cracks in the lens cells, bad focusers and different coating colors in objective lenses. And other than the Steiner’s every Binocular was over $400. So no cheap junk in there at all. Can’t imagine sampling a dozen cheap entry level binos. In the end I kept about a dozen of them. Had to sell a few nice long arms to justify ( to the wifey) the purchases. Always liked the elegance of the Leica’s but was turned off from the experience with two Trinovids I tried due to the CA , not to mention the lousy experience with the local retailer. Great property you got there. Again Thanks for the input.

Happy Thanksgiving
Paul

HI, what was your experience with the two Habichts, both optically, and quality control issues, if any??

 

[Paultricounty]

HI, what was your experience with the two Habichts, both optically, and quality control issues, if any??

Hi RG,
The Habicht’s to me are the most amazing view in any binoculars on the market today. And that’s coming from a person who has Swarovski 10x42NL’s, 12x50EL’s, Zeiss SF, and Leica Ultravids among a collection of $1000 boarder-line Alphas (hate using that term). Binoculars. There truly isn’t that much of a difference optically from the $1000 range to top, IMHO. But there is a difference🙄.

Let me start by saying if you wear glasses, forget the Habicht’s.

The eye relief is tight, the eye box is tricky, The focuser is extremely stiff, and obviously if you like modern style binoculars you may not like. These are a throwback (with modern glass, coatings & water proof) of binos from yesteryear.

If you don’t where glasses you may fall in love with them, or hate them.

Now, the eye relief & eye box I got use to fast and have no problems at all. But they are different than a roof prism bino with large eye cups and 20mm of eye relief. It’s a different animal.

The stiff focuser is not an issue for me because there’s only one and a third (give or take) rotations. And the the 20 foot to infinity only takes about a third of a turn. So stiff , but fast in that regard. Another amazing thing is the depth of field. It’s so deep ( no roof binos can compare) that when you focus on an object things behind it for a very good distance maintain focus. So you’re not going back and forth on the focus wheel.

I’ll go over both;
7x42 Habicht is my go to low light (6mm exit pupil) night time bino. I haven’t seen a better bino in low light conditions. I’d admit you could do 8x56 roofs as well.

The brightness and sharpness are unparalleled by anything on the market. The DOF is amazing as I had said earlier. That being said the FOV on the 42 is not good… some people use the words tunnel vision. It looks more like when your watching a movie and some one in the movie is showing something their looking at in a pair of binos. Any quality Binocular can be used for birding , but it wouldn’t be my first option even though I do use them for that purpose. As stated before this is a reference standard for bright and sharp binoculars. You will be impressesd!

8x30 Habicht is my favorite 8 power binoculars. Same as all of the above except no tunnel , a wide FOV and very immersive view. They are my reference binoculars to test all other binos for brightness, sharpness, clarity & DOF.

As far as quality control, the two that I bought are absolutely gorgeous, beautifully made and crafted retro Binoculars with modern upgrades. I know a half dozen people who’ve had the same experience. At about $1000-$1200 they are far superior optically than any $1000 binoculars on the market and as good and better than some at double the price.

If I had to pick only two binoculars of anything on the market today, it would be my Swarovski 10x42NL Pure & 8x30 Habicht. There is just something about them I love, build wise, the way they feel, they are that good.

Hope that helped.
Paul

 

[Rg548]

Hi RG,
The Habicht’s to me are the most amazing view in any binoculars on the market today. And that’s coming from a person who has Swarovski 10x42NL’s, 12x50EL’s, Zeiss SF, and Leica Ultravids among a collection of $1000 boarder-line Alphas (hate using that term). Binoculars. There truly isn’t that much of a difference optically from the $1000 range to top, IMHO. But there is a difference🙄.

Let me start by saying if you wear glasses, forget the Habicht’s.

The eye relief is tight, the eye box is tricky, The focuser is extremely stiff, and obviously if you like modern style binoculars you may not like. These are a throwback (with modern glass, coatings & water proof) of binos from yesteryear.

If you don’t where glasses you may fall in love with them, or hate them.

Now, the eye relief & eye box I got use to fast and have no problems at all. But they are different than a roof prism bino with large eye cups and 20mm of eye relief. It’s a different animal.

The stiff focuser is not an issue for me because there’s only one and a third (give or take) rotations. And the the 20 foot to infinity only takes about a third of a turn. So stiff , but fast in that regard. Another amazing thing is the depth of field. It’s so deep ( no roof binos can compare) that when you focus on an object things behind it for a very good distance maintain focus. So you’re not going back and forth on the focus wheel.

I’ll go over both;
7x42 Habicht is my go to low light (6mm exit pupil) night time bino. I haven’t seen a better bino in low light conditions. I’d admit you could do 8x56 roofs as well.

The brightness and sharpness are unparalleled by anything on the market. The DOF is amazing as I had said earlier. That being said the FOV on the 42 is not good… some people use the words tunnel vision. It looks more like when your watching a movie and some one in the movie is showing something their looking at in a pair of binos. Any quality Binocular can be used for birding , but it wouldn’t be my first option even though I do use them for that purpose. As stated before this is a reference standard for bright and sharp binoculars. You will be impressesd!

8x30 Habicht is my favorite 8 power binoculars. Same as all of the above except no tunnel , a wide FOV and very immersive view. They are my reference binoculars to test all other binos for brightness, sharpness, clarity & DOF.

As far as quality control, the two that I bought are absolutely gorgeous, beautifully made and crafted retro Binoculars with modern upgrades. I know a half dozen people who’ve had the same experience. At about $1000-$1200 they are far superior optically than any $1000 binoculars on the market and as good and better than some at double the price.

If I had to pick only two binoculars of anything on the market today, it would be my Swarovski 10x42NL Pure & 8x30 Habicht. There is just something about them I love, build wise, the way they feel, they are that good.

Hope that helped.
Paul

HI Paul,
Thanks for taking the time to reply, very much appreciated.
I can't get the idea of a Habicht out of my head, but I would need to let my current bins go, and they're just so damn good..
It's amazing that you use NL pures, and are happy to have the Habicht next to them..... what an endorsement!!
Best regards
Rob
I just love that old Porro design, and they fit my hands just perfectly.

 

[Paultricounty]

HI Paul,
Thanks for taking the time to reply, very much appreciated.
I can't get the idea of a Habicht out of my head, but I would need to let my current bins go, and they're just so damn good..
It's amazing that you use NL pures, and are happy to have the Habicht next to them..... what an endorsement!!
Best regards
Rob
I just love that old Porro design, and they fit my hands just perfectly.

Same here Rob,
I couldn’t get the idea our of my mind as well. I to love the design. The form factor seems to make it deceptively good. It started with me wanting one of the small porros, so I bought a nice pair of old Nikon A’s in 8x30 on eBay for $250 (Which I’m thinking of selling). That was a fantastic starter into the porro design. I didn't expect much but was very pleasantly surprised. Then went on a quest to get one of the last production run of the Nikon EII’s And the rest is history. You can get the porro fix a lot cheaper than the Habicht.

Were always looking for that elusive better optic. Here’s a few pictures of the Nikon A, E (criterion version) and the EII. Keep us posted on your search. Good luck.

Paul

 

[eronald]

I tried a friend's Habicht - I wear glasses but try to remove them when using binos if the binos can accomodate my myopia- and I got a tunnel view compared to a huge view with my 7x42 Ultravid. Does there exist a porro with an expansive immersive view angle such as a modern roof?

 

[Paultricounty]

I tried a friend's Habicht - I wear glasses but try to remove them when using binos if the binos can accomodate my myopia- and I got a tunnel view compared to a huge view with my 7x42 Ultravid. Does there exist a porro with an expansive immersive view angle such as a modern roof?

The 8x30 Habicht. Large , immersive 3D effect, Better than anything else I’ve looked through. The tunnel vision is on the 7x42, I believe because of the different ocular design on the 42.
Paul.

 

[dorubird]

Does there exist a porro with an expansive immersive view angle such as a modern roof?

E II 8X30 has more eyerelief and FOV than Habicht, which makes Nikon more friendlier to look through it and imersive! 8.8 deg is one of the largest visual fields on the market today, only a few binoculars exceed it. And compared to Habicht the E2 it has a slightly wider sweet spot clarity to the edges even if it has larger FOV (8.8deg vs 7.8deg). I estimate the resolution on the center to be about equal. Higher light transmission and higher contrast in the center are the only two important advantages of Habicht.
But either of these two PORRO binoculars is more immersive than many alpha ROOF binoculars

 

[Rg548]

Same here Rob,
I couldn’t get the idea our of my mind as well. I to love the design. The form factor seems to make it deceptively good. It started with me wanting one of the small porros, so I bought a nice pair of old Nikon A’s in 8x30 on eBay for $250 (Which I’m thinking of selling). That was a fantastic starter into the porro design. I didn't expect much but was very pleasantly surprised. Then went on a quest to get one of the last production run of the Nikon EII’s And the rest is history. You can get the porro fix a lot cheaper than the Habicht.

Were always looking for that elusive better optic. Here’s a few pictures of the Nikon A, E (criterion version) and the EII. Keep us posted on your search. Good luck.

Paul

Great collection. What are your findings comparing the Eii to the Habichts..... If you could only have one.....
Regards
Rob

 

[Paultricounty]

E II 8X30 has more eyerelief and FOV than Habicht, which makes Nikon more friendlier to look through it and imersive! 8.8 deg is one of the largest visual fields on the market today, only a few binoculars exceed it. And compared to Habicht the E2 it has a slightly wider sweet spot clarity to the edges even if it has larger FOV (8.8deg vs 7.8deg). I estimate the resolution on the center to be about equal. Higher light transmission and higher contrast in the center are the only two important advantages of Habicht.
But either of these two PORRO binoculars is more immersive than many alpha ROOF binoculars

I mostly agree with that assessment, I’d like to ad if I may. I did multiple side by side comparisons for many hours in all different lighting conditions.
I think there’s more that separates these two optics.

My opinion from my observations is the FOV of course is larger in the E2 but the Swaro has a clear superiority in the DOF (3D effect), brightness & clarity in the center and much more neutral in color. As well as the Swaros are fully water proof.

I’d sum it in a very personal subjective way, the E2 is like a upper end mid grade bino, like many of the $1000 roofs. Just at alphas door. The Habicht’s are full Alphas.


Thank you
Paul