Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (6 Viewers)

[lewis20126]

My only suggestion would be to start applying for funding to help out the hawaiian endemics. Let me know if you need help with your applications. I'd be interested in hearing how you make out.

Cheers,

Russ

Hmmmmmmmmmm. If there was one country on earth that should be able to afford to conserve its endemic taxa using its own resources it is the USA. There should be no need for me to try and assist its 300m citizens, agencies and government allocate those reources effectively. The recent extinction of several drepanids in Hawaii is an international disgrace.

 

[emupilot]

Hmmmmmmmmmm. If there was one country on earth that should be able to afford to conserve its endemic taxa using its own resources it is the USA. There should be no need for me to try and assist its 300m citizens, agencies and government allocate those reources effectively. The recent extinction of several drepanids in Hawaii is an international disgrace.

The extinction of dozens of drepanids (and many others) in Hawaii is indeed a disgrace, one set in motion largely by the Polynesians, the ship which brought mosquitoes to the islands centuries ago, and the introduction of avian malaria in the early 20th century. The federal government, state government, and private conservation organizations are protecting habitat, restoring habitat, captive breeding and reintroducing endangered birds, controlling ungulates, trying to control rats, and educating the public in Hawaii.

You assert the Ivory-billed Woodpecker's extinction because it hasn't been "confirmed" in 60 years, but during that time one of Hawaii's birds (the Po'ouli) was only discovered for the first time and now may be extinct. Following your advice, we would have given up on the Po'ouli before we even knew it to exist. So please pardon us, and especially the Ivory-bill searchers, for not taking your advice. As one searcher who has seen the Ivory-billed Woodpecker writes,

However, in the face of the lack of an indisputable photograph or video sequence a certain amount of skepticism is understandable, and necessary. But as Bob Anderson wrote to me: "I have to chuckle at all these people sitting at their PCs and saying that we're not seeing ivory-bills ..." What are the lucky few observers supposed to do, pretend they didn't see what they saw?

 

[lewis20126]

The extinction of dozens of drepanids (and many others) in Hawaii is indeed a disgrace, one set in motion largely by the Polynesians, the ship which brought mosquitoes to the islands centuries ago, and the introduction of avian malaria in the early 20th century. The federal government, state government, and private conservation organizations are protecting habitat, restoring habitat, captive breeding and reintroducing endangered birds, controlling ungulates, trying to control rats, and educating the public in Hawaii.

Whilst acknowledging the early historical context it remains a fact that the successive US administrations have underfunded conservation efforts in Hawaii. That is not to say there has not been progress (as you indicate) due in large part to a few dedicated individuals and organizations. The control of ungulates at least in Maui has been (much) too little too late, mainly as a result of appeasement to the hunting lobby. Similarly Rat control is patchy and not intensive enough to be effective in many areas (contrast with the intensive approach in New Zealand). Ever been to the Alakai? - more rats than endemics on the boardwalks! Anyway back to the IBWO....

 

[lewis20126]

You assert the Ivory-billed Woodpecker's extinction because it hasn't been "confirmed" in 60 years, but during that time one of Hawaii's birds (the Po'ouli) was only discovered for the first time and now may be extinct. Following your advice, we would have given up on the Po'ouli before we even knew it to exist. So please pardon us, and especially the Ivory-bill searchers, for not taking your advice. As one searcher who has seen the Ivory-billed Woodpecker writes,

The highlands of East Maui include some of the steepest, densest, wettest and most inaccessible places on earth (I know from personal experience!) and it is no surprise that Po'ouli remained undetected especially since it is (was) small and brown. The IBWO was a massive black and white woodpecker that lived in the lowlands of the SE USA. There are few similarities between the two species except that they are probably both extinct (I say probably as I still have vague hope for the Po'ouli - but not much).

Anyway, must get away from the PC so off to the Philippines on Saturday where I am hoping to get some photos of some rare and elusive species. Just hope I can focus my camera....

 

[Russ Jones]

There are few similarities between the two species except that they are probably both extinct (I say probably as I still have vague hope for the Po'ouli - but not much).

I am thankful that your opinion means nothing then, otherwise proving its existance to you would actually be of interest to someone.

Cheers,

Russ

 

[Jane Turner]

TRE - I meant to ask, was this latest sight close to your previous record of a Woodpecker with white in the trailing edge of the wing?

 

[MMinNY]

He can obviously answer that more specifically than I, but judging from the satelite photo and topo map, the sightings are close enough together to be within the feeding range of a single bird or pair of birds.

For general info, the area is north and west of where Cornell has focused its efforts.

TRE - I meant to ask, was this latest sight close to your previous record of a Woodpecker with white in the trailing edge of the wing?

 

[Jane Turner]

Then it would appear that there is a Woodpecker with some white secondaries and perhaps primaries about.

The next step is to prove whether its a partial leucistic Pileated, or an ivory-bill.

TRE - if you get a third opportunity,
-try and work out exactly which feathers in the trailing edge of the wing are black or partially black.
-try and see what colour the bill is (and ideally the eye)
-try and see where the white line leading down from the face goes.

You are going to need to be able to confidently describe these features.

 

[TRE329]

Then it would appear that there is a Woodpecker with some white secondaries and perhaps primaries about.

The next step is to prove whether its a partial leucistic Pileated, or an ivory-bill.

TRE - if you get a third opportunity,
-try and work out exactly which feathers in the trailing edge of the wing are black or partially black.
-try and see what colour the bill is (and ideally the eye)
-try and see where the white line leading down from the face goes.

You are going to need to be able to confidently describe these features.

Thank you for the tips and suggestions Jane.I will be heading back out there tomorrow.I am trying to find a possible roost cavity for these birds ,will be looking in a very promising area tomorrow that I had almost forgotten about.I had not been able to explore it before due to dangerous high water.The day following my first sighting I had heard extremely loud and methodical hammering from this location.

 

[TRE329]

Oh and yes the two sightings are only about 4/10 ths of a mile apart.

 

[lewis20126]

Oh and yes the two sightings are only about 4/10 ths of a mile apart.

Would you regard it as a "hot zone" for IBWO activity?

 

[curunir]

Would you regard it as a "hot zone" for IBWO activity?

Sounds like tm might be closing in on things. Maybe he should clear out for a week or so just in case he's causing stress.

Any thoughts

 

[lewis20126]

I am thankful that your opinion means nothing then, otherwise proving its existance to you would actually be of interest to someone.

Cheers,

Russ

Russ,

I'm sorry but you've lost me with that sentence - although I do gather it is probably not a favourable comment. Please clarify and I'll do my best to respond in an appropriate manner.

Cheers

Alan

 

[lewis20126]

Sounds like tm might be closing in on things. Maybe he should clear out for a week or so just in case he's causing stress.

Any thoughts

It does seem as if territorial abandonment follows the more intensive search efforts. I suggest that he pulls out before there is any more disturbance to this population.

 

[emupilot]

Sounds like tm might be closing in on things. Maybe he should clear out for a week or so just in case he's causing stress.

Any thoughts

It does seem as if territorial abandonment follows the more intensive search efforts. I suggest that he pulls out before there is any more disturbance to this population.

Needless to say, lewis20126 has no genuine interest in protection of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker since he confidently asserts its certain extinction. curunir's question is a fair one, though. Although the skeptical view gets harder to maintain with each good sighting, at some point there will be a need for "scientific proof" to keep the ball moving forward on conservation of the species. That proof may disturb the birds in the short run, but the scientific community needs to rule out the possibility of a conspiracy of fools, frauds, stealthy jays, pied crows, and masquerading Pileateds. We will also need to learn more about the Ivory-bill's breeding biology, which means finding nests. My advice to TRE and others who find a hot trail is to follow it, not wait for it to grow cold. Just be aware of the possibility of finding a nest, try to stay a respectful distance from potential nest sites, and once found, quietly retreat to the greatest distance possible while still maintaining a view sufficient to watch and identifiably photograph the birds.

 

[jimbones]

extinct birds

The highlands of East Maui include some of the steepest, densest, wettest and most inaccessible places on earth (I know from personal experience!) and it is no surprise that Po'ouli remained undetected especially since it is (was) small and brown. The IBWO was a massive black and white woodpecker that lived in the lowlands of the SE USA. There are few similarities between the two species except that they are probably both extinct (I say probably as I still have vague hope for the Po'ouli - but not much).

Why waste your time on a forum about extinct birds? Oh yeah. So all US dollars can go to Hawaii so we can find the Po'ouli. Why not find both? How can you be 100% certain the ivory-bill is extinct?

 

[lewis20126]

Needless to say, lewis20126 has no genuine interest in protection of the Ivory-billed Woodpecker since he confidently asserts its certain extinction.

Hey I might be wrong about the extinction though and that would be just brilliant (see earlier posts). So - just in case I am wrong - please don't go disturbing any of those nests. "If in doubt, pull out" as the old Hampshire expression goes.

Alan

 

[lewis20126]

Why waste your time on a forum about extinct birds?

I could ask you the same question. Oh, I just have.

 

[Russ Jones]

Russ,

I'm sorry but you've lost me with that sentence - although I do gather it is probably not a favourable comment. Please clarify and I'll do my best to respond in an appropriate manner.

Cheers

Alan

No need for a reply Alan, I guess I was just thinking out loud. But to rephrase my thoughts, I am glad that you have no influence on anybody that is relevent to the research being done on the IBWO. You stated "There are few similarities between the two species except that they are probably both extinct (I say probably as I still have vague hope for the Po'ouli - but not much)." That reads like you have no doubts about the species extinct status to me. I ask you then, what good are you to IBWO conservation? I am somewhat baffled that you would even waste your time posting here, and giving advice to others that might have actually seen one no less.

Cheers,

Russ

 

[Jane Turner]

Sounds like tm might be closing in on things. Maybe he should clear out for a week or so just in case he's causing stress.

Any thoughts

I disagree - its more important to see enough to know if this bird is IBWO or leucistic Pileated.

In any case this latest sighting was on the edge of a camping site and car park - not exactly undisturbed virgin forest!