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Leica Ultravid BL (1 Viewer)

Ingle1970

Well-known member
England
How long has the leather covered Ultravid been supplied with a cordura case ?, so no more of the exquisite leather clam shell cases then.

I wonder if you still get the leather neck strap, or has that been replaced with a cheaper more cost effective replacement ?...:cat:
 
Just had a quick look on Warehouse-express site and the leather neck strap IS replaced with the neoprene one....you do get "lens covers" though.
 
The diminutive leather case for my 10x42 BL is the best thing since sliced bread i.m.o. It's a real shame if new BL's don't come with it.

Wal.
 
The diminutive leather case for my 10x42 BL is the best thing since sliced bread i.m.o. It's a real shame if new BL's don't come with it.

Wal.

Agreed. The wonderful case just adds that little extra class to the whole package, glad i got mine when i did . :t:
 
You don't "carry" this binocular, you "wear" it! You are not supposed to hide it's sleek lines with your big "mitts." It is a fashion item. Put on your gold signet ring with your coat of arms engraved on it and your Patek Philippe when you take it birding!:king:

Bob
 
You don't "carry" this binocular, you "wear" it! You are not supposed to hide it's sleek lines with your big "mitts." It is a fashion item. Put on your gold signet ring with your coat of arms engraved on it and your Patek Philippe when you take it birding!:king:

Bob

It would be a Zenith El Primero for me Bob ;)
 
Putting a neoprene strap on a BL is like putting BF Goodrich tires on a Ferrari. What the...?

If the idea of the BL is style, light weight, and compactness, which I think it most certainly is..... how does a bulky, hot neoprene strap fit in? The case isn't as bad, but why not the old case? The Trinovid style leather pouch would be OK.
 
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Putting a neoprene strap on a BL is like putting BF Goodrich tires on a Ferrari. What the...?

If the idea of the BL is style, light weight, and compactness, which I think it most certainly is..... how does a bulky, hot neoprene strap fit in? The case isn't as bad, but why not the old case? The Trinovid style leather pouch would be OK.

Answer - £££ $$$
 
So you are dissapointed to see the fine leather bags gone? I invite you to read my 2008 post here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1354554&postcount=20


Shame on Leica managers, shame on all those MBA consultants who sit down and work out such "cost saving" ideas, shame on Steven Lee who wanted to run Leica like Best Buy, shame on Schmidt and Bender managers (equaivalent of Leica in riflescope world) who is dying on nepotism, shame on Herr Gerlach, shame on the Schmidt and Bender scope whose glued eyepiece compartment opens up the same they you buy it, shame on Leica using "organic glue" on BL models so the leather peels off in humid weather (admitted to me by Leica sales staff in Berlin), shame on all those who's missmanagement is killing Germany's top optics hallmarks.. :( :( :(
 
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So you are dissapointed to see the fine leather bags gone? I invite you to read my 2008 post here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1354554&postcount=20


Shame on Leica managers, shame on all those MBA consultants who sit down and work out such "cost saving" ideas, shame on Steven Lee who wanted to run Leica like Best Buy, shame on Schmidt and Bender managers (equaivalent of Leica in riflescope world) who is dying on nepotism, shame on Herr Gerlach, shame on the Schmidt and Bender scope whose glued eyepiece compartment opens up the same they you buy it, shame on Leica using "organic glue" on BL models so the leather peels off in humid weather (admitted to me by Leica sales staff in Berlin), shame on all those who's missmanagement is killing Germany's top optics hallmarks.. :( :( :(

I'll defer to your "complete" blame list, but I wanted to chime in regarding MBAs. These short sighted arrogant clowns have run many good businesses into the ground and put many otherwise employable people out of work. To my thinking, as a group, they are a blight. "Quarterly Profits" is their religion, without regard to long term consequences.

Of course financial issues are usually complicated, and European optics manufacturing and marketing has it's own unique problems, but the "cookie cutter" approach these genius bean counters employ are affecting all corners of business.

Can you tell how much respect I have for them? Right in there with ambulance chasers and congressmen.

Whew!! I feel better....B :)
 
I would take such reports with a grain of salt.. This is just an accounting sheet created by MBAs whose bonuses will depend on the figures they produce on this very sheet not the satisfaction of Leica customers. Is a Leica M9 with a $7000 price tag really worth it? It's an electronic Aanalog to Digital converter board. It will be obsolete in 2 years (or less). Is it difficult for anyone to guess how much it will sell on eBay by 2012? "That price" will tell you how much "value" there is in it. A Leica camera was an object of reverance. It kept its value. It was collectible. It no longer is (neither analog or digital models). That's what causes the crisis.

Leica binoculars are still "valuable" items. They are still collectible and we don't expect them to go obsolete anytime soon. Does anyone know how much of Leica revenue comes from its sports optics department?
 
I would take such reports with a grain of salt.. This is just an accounting sheet created by MBAs whose bonuses will depend on the figures they produce on this very sheet not the satisfaction of Leica customers. Is a Leica M9 with a $7000 price tag really worth it? It's an electronic Aanalog to Digital converter board. It will be obsolete in 2 years (or less). Is it difficult for anyone to guess how much it will sell on eBay by 2012? "That price" will tell you how much "value" there is in it. A Leica camera was an object of reverance. It kept its value. It was collectible. It no longer is (neither analog or digital models). That's what causes the crisis.

Leica binoculars are still "valuable" items. They are still collectible and we don't expect them to go obsolete anytime soon. Does anyone know how much of Leica revenue comes from its sports optics department?

Omid,

Read my post (#12) in the BF thread linked below, which compares revenues of the sports divisions of Swarovski and Leica. Zeiss didn't give a breakdown of its sports division but lumped those sales in with its with planetariums, camera, cine lenses, and "optronic" products. The planetariums alone would skew the numbers since they can run in the millions.

Market Share ? Alpha Binoculars

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=161346

There's also a comment further down in my post about Leica's unsuccessful foray into the rifle scopes (in cooperation with Leupold), and Jerry's post below mine about a new line of Leica rifle scopes that you might find interesting.
 
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Thansk Brock! I read your smart analysis of market shares and sales figures. Si it seems that Swarovski is the big guy aong the top brands. Zeiss is probably a close second in sports optics and Leica is a distant third.

What I am wondering is whether Leica can survive on sports optics alone? As I said the camera business has changed into electronics so there is no way that Leica can compete with Nikon or Canon. Also, a digital camera is no longer a "precision equipment" or a "work of art". It is a short-lived consumer product, a comodity item. So may be Leica should totally abonden the camear buissness and focus on sports optics?
 
Thansk Brock! I read your smart analysis of market shares and sales figures. Si it seems that Swarovski is the big guy aong the top brands. Zeiss is probably a close second in sports optics and Leica is a distant third.

What I am wondering is whether Leica can survive on sports optics alone? As I said the camera business has changed into electronics so there is no way that Leica can compete with Nikon or Canon. Also, a digital camera is no longer a "precision equipment" or a "work of art". It is a short-lived consumer product, a comodity item. So may be Leica should totally abonden the camear buissness and focus on sports optics?

At this price point, I don't think Leica's camera market is consumer driven, but geared mainly toward professional photographers, or high-paid professionals in other fields such as Ashwin Rao, a doctor whose photos I was just looking at. He's a serious amateur photographer with deep enough pockets to afford a Leica M9 or two.

Here he is on the Leica Camera blog:

http://blog.leica-camera.com/interview/ashwin-rao-one-leica-m9-is-not-enough/

We're wandering off topic here into photography, but you and others might enjoy this blog entry titled "The Digital Photography Industry Is Now At Its Industry Breakpoint, It Is Ready For Disruption. Not All Will Survive."

The blogger's key point being summed up by this sentence: Most innovation will happen in the middle high end market.

http://mootee.typepad.com/innovation_playground/2010/03/the-digital-photography-industry-is-now-at-its-indsutry-breakpoint-it-is-ready-for-disruption-not-al.html

Back on topic, I've said this before on other threads, which is that we might see a point in the not too distant future when the price of Leica bins edges close to the $3K mark causes Leica's Sports Division to become more professional driven than consumer driven.

That is, the sports division too will be geared toward professionals in fields related to birding or hunting and professionals in other fields who are serious amateurs (and let's not forgot spoiled brats with trust funds :). To some degree, that's already happening.

I saw this coming when some diehard Leica devotees on BF said they planned to hang on to their Trinovids rather than move up to Ultravids since they didn't think the incremental improvements were worth the "quantum leap" in costs (in the vernacular sense of the term).

I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar thread on BF in about 3-5 years (depending on how long it takes the global economy to recovery) from a group of Ultravid owners after comparing their HDs to the next gen of $3K Übervids.

As prices rise, sales lower, but the end result might be that Leica's profits stay the same or even grow a bit as Leica gears its camera and optics products and customer service toward professionals.

"Guten Tag, Herr Doctor Rao, we are just following up to see if you received your complimentary Corinthian leather golf bag with your new 8x42 Übervid?" :)

At one time, I suggested that in order to survive, Leica needed to do what Swarovski (was) doing (no longer) and Zeiss, that is, offer a second tier alternative to their top of the line models.

In hindsight, I think I was wrong about that. If exclusivity and prestige are hallmarks of the Leica brand, going cheaper isn't going to help their brand and might actually might harm it.

You made valid points about Leica's bad management. I've read the horror stories.

However, I think one could make a good case that it's chiefly increased labor and materials costs that have driven up the price of Leica bins, not the incremental improvements or bad management.

Germany has the highest paid workers in Europe and in some industries such as the auto industry, the highest paid in the world.

Germany also has socialized medicine and heavily subsidized college education. Germans pay for all that in higher taxes, and costs just keep climbing on medicine and education, and as they do, taxes increase along with demands from unions for higher salaries.

So to quote one of my favorite Jack Nicholson movies "Something's Gotta Give".

According to this report, if Germany stays on its present course, the government might become insolvent by 2025:

http://www.sbjum.de/english/html/reform_turbulence.html

Well, we've really gone the gamut, from micro lenses to macroeconomics. :)
 
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Thansk Brock! I read your smart analysis of market shares and sales figures. Si it seems that Swarovski is the big guy aong the top brands. Zeiss is probably a close second in sports optics and Leica is a distant third.

What I am wondering is whether Leica can survive on sports optics alone? As I said the camera business has changed into electronics so there is no way that Leica can compete with Nikon or Canon. Also, a digital camera is no longer a "precision equipment" or a "work of art". It is a short-lived consumer product, a comodity item. So may be Leica should totally abonden the camear buissness and focus on sports optics?

I agree with you, i dont think they can compete in todays market.
Look at how many different brands are producing quality digital cameras now, it seems every man and his dog !. They should stick to what they do best, or used to anyway...
 
I agree with you, i dont think they can compete in todays market.
Look at how many different brands are producing quality digital cameras now, it seems every man and his dog !.

They should stick to what they do best, or used to anyway...

And what would that be? I would guess making the best camera lenses in the world and making them universally adaptable to a wide range of digital cameras (if that can be done). IOW, get out of the camera body business and specialize in camera lenses.

Here's a hybrid camera back idea they came up with that was innovative:
http://www.dcviews.com/press/Leica-Digital-Module-R.htm

The camera back can transform Leica's analog SLR R8 and R9 cameras into digital cameras. Perhaps a way to satisfy traditional customers who like the precision engineering of Leica's analog cameras, but who want digital images for convenience and for using Photoshop, etc. BIG sucka, though.

This hybrid has been out for 5 years, wonder how its doing? Hard to tell from the 2009 sales figures since the recession undoubtedly skewed those numbers.

Most people "downsize" during a recession. And while, yes, the rich are always rich, this is one recession where the rich got burned too.

Except here in Happy Valley where the land barons are fat as pot bellied pigs and getting fatter with each additional residential house they gobble up.

Excuse me, I hear the huns approaching, and I have to prepare another vat of hot leftover cooking oil to throw over the wall.

Brock, the Beleaguered
 
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