Hermann
Well-known member
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New Old Trinovids (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Paskman
- Start date
Re. post 195.
The Land Rover that I drove in the early sixties was much more yellow than the one in the photo.
It was all bright yellow.
I fully support the decision of House of Outdoors.
Canon and Nikon have also made very high handed decisions, where both the customers and dealers are treated shabbily.
As to Olympus, the whole situation was scandalous, and it took a very brave Brit to reveal what had been going on.
The big photo and binocular names are suffering.
Decisions are made, which may not turn out well for anyone.
It would not surprise me if Leica is eventually Chinese owned.
B.
The Land Rover that I drove in the early sixties was much more yellow than the one in the photo.
It was all bright yellow.
I fully support the decision of House of Outdoors.
Canon and Nikon have also made very high handed decisions, where both the customers and dealers are treated shabbily.
As to Olympus, the whole situation was scandalous, and it took a very brave Brit to reveal what had been going on.
The big photo and binocular names are suffering.
Decisions are made, which may not turn out well for anyone.
It would not surprise me if Leica is eventually Chinese owned.
B.
You can complain all you want about Leica only selling the new Retrovid's at Leica Store's but it most likely isn't going to change Leica's decision where to sell the binoculars. It is what it is. If you want a pair buy them at a Leica Store. Leica's probably thinks the Retrovid will be a good seller so I would imagine they will make more profit selling them exclusively at their own Leica stores instead of having to share the profit with a reseller. What is the difference where you buy them? I get the first pair of Retrovid's 7x35 shipped in the USA Tuesday. I will give my opinion on them although your opinion might be different.
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Kevin Conville
yardbirder
I understand all the above comments, and really, this is OMHO, and I'm sure that Jan is a good dealer and has his reasons. I think the thing for me is that the Retrovid is exactly that - a retro boutique product, not intended to be a part of Leica's competitive line up.
Most of this thread has been a catalogue of reasons as to why many of the cognoscenti here will not consider the new Trinovids to be a worthy contender, and now we have dealers throwing the baby out with the bath water because they (like all other non-exclusive Leica dealers) are not allowed to sell the new toy. There seems to be some irony there to me. BUT, it's just my 2 cents. I'll shut up now!B
:t:
Folks around here did appear to be lining up to throw shade on Leica for this binocular
We (collectively) seem to be imparting our values on Leica. Do people get as excited about where and how they can buy a certain Louis Vuitton bag? That specific Rolex watch? We want Leica to play by Swarovski and Zeiss' rules and Leica seems to like the boutique model better.
I probably won't be buying a Leica in the near future but it's not because of any of this marketing stuff. A product has to stand on it's merits, for me. I just don't have a need for one of their products currently, fine as they are.
Shows the absolute dedication! I very well understand that such a store owner considers it a breach of trust. And when that happens, something more important than money is involved. I'm glad to see that there are still people whose value system is not limited by money.
Kevin Conville
yardbirder
Just playing Devil's advocate here, but zealotry doesn't necessarily make for righteousness. People get gung-ho for foreign wars, as an example, and people enlist out of some misguided form of patriotism. Later to find out they'd been lied to (shocking), there was no mission, and rich people profited. All this spoken as an American.
Nobody asked Jan to create that ad vehicle. The fact he owns it doesn't make his case more righteous than any other dealer.
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In Germany the first Trinovid availabe was the 8x40, I had a change to compare it at the Leica Store at KaDeWe in Berlin with a 8x42 Noctivid. It is a nice small binocular but off course not a Noctivid.
Waiting more than two years there was no doubt that I would get the 7x35. Meanwhile I did various comparisons with the Zeiss Dialyt 7x42, Celestron Granite 7x33 and Kowa 6,5x32. (There ist lengthy discussion in the Jülich Forum). My impression, it is a very well build binocular, with high contrast, very good sharpness in the center, slight pincushion distorsion, no globe effect. :eat: Yes, the FOV is 140 m instead of 150 m specified two year ago, but compared with the 150 m oft the Dialyt it is hardly visible. And it is not sharp to the edge. All in all, a very nice small binocular, not perfect but well made and fitting to the pocket of my jacket.
best
Thomas
Politics aside these are sounding quite decent, I'll be interested to read Dennis's summary also.
None the less they won't be my thing for various reasons, even my 7x42 UV+ often get overlooked for my other 8x options.
Boogieshrew
Well-known member
Thank you Thomas. That's good to know. They sound like binoculars that I may like. I shall have to try them.
Boogieshrew
Well-known member
Are these Retrovids made in Germany or elsewhere?
I understand all the above comments, and really, this is OMHO, and I'm sure that Jan is a good dealer and has his reasons. I think the thing for me is that the Retrovid is exactly that - a retro boutique product, not intended to be a part of Leica's competitive line up.
Most of this thread has been a catalogue of reasons as to why many of the cognoscenti here will not consider the new Trinovids to be a worthy contender, and now we have dealers throwing the baby out with the bath water because they (like all other non-exclusive Leica dealers) are not allowed to sell the new toy. There seems to be some irony there to me. BUT, it's just my 2 cents. I'll shut up now!
Leica's previous collector's specials have all been sold through the dealers and I am sure the dealers are wondering whether other product lines in the future are also going to be limited to Leica stores or Leica's on-line store. Collector's specials might not have been big sellers for dealers but they might have attracted shop visitors to the Leica shelves.
If I was a dealer I would certainly be wondering whether the Retrovids are the thin-end of wedge heralding an increasingly reduced role for traditional dealers in the future.
Lee
Mike F
Well-known member
Thanks, Lee. Yes, I get it. I just felt that there was nothing but criticism for Leica with regard to the new Trinovids. I didn’t feel that it was entirely fair that people would criticise Leica for making a lukewarm retro boutique product and then criticise them again when they treated it as such by selling it only through their own stores.
Let’s see if Leica change their minds about this. Sorry for any offence caused by reference to my little sisters tantrums.
Hello All,
I think that most , (if not all) readers and followers of this thread are REALLY , REALLY disappointed that the new Retrovids are not a one to one clone of the old Trinovids , and Leica has now added insult to injury by selling them only through the "Boutique" stores.
After all , our expectations were raised in 2017 , and I think that we all expected that the new Retrovids would have beeen a 1:1 clone of the excellent old Uppendahl prism'd Trinovids.
Bummer , the world is just not FAIR o o o o.
8-P
Cheers.
I think that most , (if not all) readers and followers of this thread are REALLY , REALLY disappointed that the new Retrovids are not a one to one clone of the old Trinovids , and Leica has now added insult to injury by selling them only through the "Boutique" stores.
After all , our expectations were raised in 2017 , and I think that we all expected that the new Retrovids would have beeen a 1:1 clone of the excellent old Uppendahl prism'd Trinovids.
Bummer , the world is just not FAIR o
o o o.8-P
Cheers.
Leica is not going to use old technology with Uppendahl prisms to make an updated Retrovid. Why? It would just make the binoculars more expensive and the new binocular with SP prisms and updated coatings and glass will kill the old Trinovid's and they will sell just as well. Most people could care less what kind of prism's the binoculars have as long as they perform well. The main thing is they LOOK like the old Trinovid. That is what will sell them. When a car builder builds a retro Pontiac GTO they don't use the original engine they use a modern crate motor. The main thing is thing is it looks like the old GTO.
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Boogieshrew
Well-known member
Thank you Canip
I was only trying to explain the motivation behind the extreme reaction we are discussing here. Jan probably invested some more effort/motivation and maybe finances into his connection with Leica than others. For whatever reasons.
RobMorane
Well-known member
To add something to the debate, Leica has, more often than not, wanted to be a brand for the "Elite", a brand for people who had the financial means to offer it.
Not a lot of photographer (Pro included) could offer a Leica M back in the days, and I'm not even talking about the lenses. They started to cut costs on the production lines by introducing plastic parts (where they had metal one before), and this, as early as the 60's.
And that's when the Leica M's started to go back often in the end of the repair guys little hands. And so went down the reliability of the Leica M cameras.
And it's exactly the same with Microsystems branch and their Microscopes (even though they have really serious competitors, Nikon, Olympus, Zeiss etc).
Leica lost the public tenders for some university research labs because of their prices (but competitors did too). The buyers from the older generation were buying Leica (and still do) based on the old quality reputation. The new generation of buyers don't, especially after few after-sales issues, as it happened in the past decades.
Leica Photography made and sold a limited number of special "signature" version of their Leica M (Thinking of the Ralph Gibson one) and if I remember correctly, it could only be bought in their Leica owned shops.
I don't think they care one minute about their resellers.
They want to be what Louis Vuitton is to the Handbags.
I don't think Leica will be owned by Chinese.
I personally think some branches of Leica will disappear totally...
Because they just don't generate enough profits for the Top management,whoever they are/will be.
Not a lot of photographer (Pro included) could offer a Leica M back in the days, and I'm not even talking about the lenses. They started to cut costs on the production lines by introducing plastic parts (where they had metal one before), and this, as early as the 60's.
And that's when the Leica M's started to go back often in the end of the repair guys little hands. And so went down the reliability of the Leica M cameras.
And it's exactly the same with Microsystems branch and their Microscopes (even though they have really serious competitors, Nikon, Olympus, Zeiss etc).
Leica lost the public tenders for some university research labs because of their prices (but competitors did too). The buyers from the older generation were buying Leica (and still do) based on the old quality reputation. The new generation of buyers don't, especially after few after-sales issues, as it happened in the past decades.
Leica Photography made and sold a limited number of special "signature" version of their Leica M (Thinking of the Ralph Gibson one) and if I remember correctly, it could only be bought in their Leica owned shops.
I don't think they care one minute about their resellers.
They want to be what Louis Vuitton is to the Handbags.
I don't think Leica will be owned by Chinese.
I personally think some branches of Leica will disappear totally...
Because they just don't generate enough profits for the Top management,whoever they are/will be.
