New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (2 Viewers)

[jan van daalen]

Jan,

With the hope of adding a little perspective to this latest discussion, would you mind sharing with how many SF units you had to return to Zeiss and better yet, how many customers that have bought an SF, have returned it to you because they were dissatisfied. Thanks.

At this moment we received 6 SF's which are sold to very satisfied customers (as we have read from at least one of them) and 4 are sold but are in backorder from Zeiss. Holland and Belgium get a quotum of a few and the Zeiss rep is distributing them first in, first out.
We have gotten no SF's returned from any customer for any reason (maybe Zeiss has a weak spot for me and gives us the cherries)

Jan

 

[BruceH]

Jan,

Thank you. Just as I suspected!

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis please,

The ones we had were in excellent shape. Fitting eyecups, fitting objective covers, smooth focussers etc.
There must have been thousends SF's made and delivered by now and maybe 20 of them were "incorrect" if you count wrong covers also.
Unsharp edges? My ass! Poor color saturation? Please!!

I can't imagine any dealer steering a customer away from a SF for any reason. I do can imagine a dealer trying to steer a certain customer away for some reasonB

Jan

Let's see the numbers that only 20 were defective. Are you just pulling that out of the air? From the relatively few of the Zeiss 8x42 SF's that have been purchased by Bird Forum members we are getting a higher percentage rate of defects than that. I have been reading cases of sticky focusers and incorrect objective covers all over the internet so I think the problem is more widespread than 20 units. Also, many people have commented on the poor color saturation and the dealer I was going to order them from said they had poor color saturation compared to the Swarovski. Many people also have commented that they are not sharp to the edge as Zeiss has advertised either. Sorry, but I don't believe a Zeiss Dealer about return rates I believe what I am reading from the customers. Dealers are motivated to sell the product.

 

[jan van daalen]

I think if numbers are going to be cited, they need to be accurate numbers rather than assumptions with a little bit of sensationalism e.g. thousands delivered.....maybe 20 'incorrect' - where are these plucked from? User views will usually be subjective unless they have the facilities, or knowledge to do accurate measurement. But once you get into quantitative statistics these need to be accurate to gain any credibility.

Andy,

You're right.
These numbers are plucked from....... my imagination with a little experience.
A few years back I visited Zeiss and the told me the maximum production level of 1 model was 78 a day.
So, let's do some math. 10 weeks of full production of let's say 50 units a day in 5 working days (I remember at the time the SV launch took place Swaro had a day and evening shift working) so that would make 2500 SF's.

Jan

 

[Troubador]

You are going to have a major hassle getting little problems like this fixed through Zeiss.

I heard they had to get the correct objective covers from Germany.

Dennis: so they are little problems now? Glad you are being so reasonable and sensible.:king:

As for the objective covers having to come from Germany, this is an odd coincidence because the binoculars come from Germany too!!! Who would have thought it? :-O

Lee

 

[BruceH]

....... I have been reading cases of sticky focusers and incorrect objective covers all over the internet .........

Since it "all over the internet", would you please post several links to these reports on other sites.

Thanks.

....... ......... Also, many people have commented on the poor color saturation.......

I recall reading a couple of comments saying they thought the SF had a little less color saturation than the SV. That is not the same as saying they had poor color saturation. I found the color saturation to be very natural which I and some others prefer over boosted colors.

I am trying to figure out your motivation for the continued twisting and misrepresenting what is being said. Jealous that others may now have a binocular with the next level of optical quality? Concerns that an increase in optical performance may diminish the resale value of your current unit? Howard Stern has returned?

 

[AndyRB]

denco,
I'd agree with much of your last comments. However, regarding colour saturation I've found that they are less saturated than Swarovski SVs but that's not necessarily detrimental, as it may just be that some prefer a more saturated image. Perhaps the SFs give a more realistic representation of colour and Swaro richen it up a slight notch. That's comparing both in 10x42 back to back in good light and several times. Personally I've not found any issues with edge sharpness. Hope that clarifies some of this from a first hand perspective.

 

[AndyRB]

jan,

I'm not doubting your experience, but do we know these have actually been in 'full' production, or just in 'limited' production, for example, to satisfy what appears to be a delayed launch? All I'm saying is that unless you have accurate numbers from credible sources you can only guess - even if it's an educated guess.

 

[Troubador]

Jan,

Why don't you just ask Gary how many the dealer received?

Bob

Bob

I suspect that this would be like asking a doctor to reveal confidential stuff about a patient.

With SF still apparently in short supply if an importer was to reveal that say 8 bins in short supply went to one dealer, you can bet that other dealers would be on the phone asking why they only got 6.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

Sorry, but I don't believe a Zeiss Dealer about return rates I believe what I am reading from the customers. Dealers are motivated to sell the product.

Dennis

Hold hard there: Jan is a dealer in many brands of bins including Swaro, Leica and Zeiss. Only last year he was getting heat on BF for allegedly boosting up Swaro so its a laugh that you think he is favouring Zeiss. The lad just tells it how he sees it.

Lee

 

[BruceH]

...........
Sorry, but I don't believe a Zeiss Dealer about return rates I believe what I am reading from the customers. .........

Sorry, but I do not recall reading a single post anywhere from a customer who has returned a Zeiss SF. I also have not seen any vendors selling a SF demo or open box units.

Since you said "customers" (pural), how about posting a couple of links to what you are reading from customers discussing returns. I would like to read what they have to say. Thanks.

 

[Torview]

I`m not impressed when members make detrimental assumptions about optics they have yet to try.

I`v decided the SF probably won`t be in my line up, but it is a stunning binocular, handling, balance, in a new class, the colour saturation is different to the SV, Uv HD+, SE but it is in no way "poor".

I don`t find the edges as sharp as SV, SE, but that may be my own take on what a sharp edge is.

Surely the finest 8x42 roof currently available.

 

[garymh]

. I heard they had to get the correct objective covers from Germany.

Because Zeiss are manufactured in Germany all spare parts, for whatever model, come from Germany.

If a binocular is supplied with the wrong accessory and a replacement is sent to the customer...........yes, it comes from Germany !!!!!!!

Gary.

 

[[email protected]]

My point is I was about to purchase the Zeiss 8x42 SF so I looked around for reviews and that is what I found. I don't know if the complaints are legitimate but it is enough for me to hold off on a purchase until the bugs are worked out. I am just reporting what I found. Here is a thread on Bird Forum talking about some of the problems but if you don't want to believe that I read these comments I don't care. I didn't make them up. I am just a consumer with no financial interest in Zeiss. When more of these hit the market we will know better if they are all Zeiss is saying they are cracked up to be. Here are some quotes also.

"I was expecting better though considering the build up, and both myself and the proprietor at SWO remarked on the strong blue fringe at the edge."

"We have both and in my quite inexperienced view the Swarovski has slightly more colour saturation, but then I haven't had much time to compare them as the SFs only arrived this morning. What was wrong was that the protective lens caps that were in the box were completely the wrong size and for a much larger binocular and there is stiction when extending the eyepiece which sounds and feels very, very cheap and plasticky and instead of the two intermediate positions stated in the handbook there is only one. The eyecups issue is a significant error for an top-end binocular and leaves a question over quality control."

"Lee, I accept the fov is large, but the marketing blurb claimed sharp to the edge, and the one and only example I looked through was`nt.

I did get chastised on these pages a good while back for asking if members really expected the SF to blow the Sv away, apparently they did, so far I`m a little underwhelmed overall."

"There`s been a long drawn out build up to the SF, promising a class leading fov that was indeed sharp right to the edge, I`v only tried the one but it did`nt live up to that claim, for anybody with an SV (who`s happy with them) I can think of no good reason to buy an SF."

"No, I'm afraid there's only one stop and the whole mechanism feels cheap, creaky and nasty. Our 10x42 Swarovski's eye cups on the other hand feel and sound just as you'd expect for this level of optic. I like everything else about the SFs but my wife and I feel this is a significant let down for something of this price; clearly despite the quality signature that came with them there is an issue here as they shouldn't have been signed off - not least the fact that mine were boxed with grossly oversized lens caps from some other Zeiss product."

"Tanks for this Bob, but initially the eyecups were so tight and creaky when moving them that it was hard to find any intermediate position. Nudging wasn't an option due to how tight they were, which prevented any quick movement. They arrived in the post and I let the retailer I bought them from listen to them moving when I held a phone near and they could clearly hear the stiction. This has been forwarded on to the Zeiss rep. However, after opening and closing them numerous times the tight, plastic creakiness is not as severe as it was and there is one middle stop that can be located and locked into, but this doesn't feel as precise as I imagined it would. So there is fully closed, a stop around 1cm and then fully open at around 1.3cm and trying to move beyond that the whole eyecup rotates. So most definitely not the two intermediate stops indicated in the instruction booklet. The fact that these needed to be 'bedded in' by the customer and they still sound very creaky when moving is, for me, unacceptable for a product so flaunted by Zeiss and costing this much. I can't imagine how little the eyecup units cost Zeiss, relative to the rest of the body, but it has certainly put me off buying other Zeiss binoculars. I still can't get over the fact that as these were among the first released in the UK they came with wrong end covers."

"What do you think of the rubber armour ?, personally I felt it would mark badly and look a bit scruffy quite quickly, especially the smooth bit on the inside of the bridge."

"Just to add some more detail. In the SF case there is a zipped pocket and I've just noticed that the metal body of pull tag of the zip put a small dent in the armour of the SF"

" I think I've made it clear in previous posts how disappointing the quality of these eye cups are compared to my Swarovski SVs or even my Kite Lynx, so I won't labour that any further and just hope that Zeiss can speed things up. I am aware the Zeiss rep has been given my email, but as of yet I've not heard anything."

These are just a FEW of the comments I found from Bird Forum members. There is way more out there. Here is the link.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=296108&page=4











http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=296108

 

[[email protected]]

Because Zeiss are manufactured in Germany all spare parts, for whatever model, come from Germany.

If a binocular is supplied with the wrong accessory and a replacement is sent to the customer...........yes, it comes from Germany !!!!!!!

Gary.

How good do you think your QA is when you ship the wrong size objective covers with a $2500 binocular? I would think EVERY binocular would be inspected. That causes me to lose confidence in Zeiss if something as simple as lens covers are screwed up.

 

[HighNorth]

How good do you think your QA is when you ship the wrong size objective covers with a $2500 binocular? I would think EVERY binocular would be inspected. That causes me to lose confidence in Zeiss if something as simple as lens covers are screwed up.

When I receive my 8x42 SF in about two days time, I will tell you if they arrive with the wrong objective covers, unsaturated colours, sticky focuser, or a tiny little Swarovski-green gremlin inside, who makes them rattle when held up to the ear! :-O

 

[Hermann]

deleted

Up to your old tricks again, are you? Bad-mouthing a binocular you've never seen let alone handled? Quoting - as you so often do - anonymous reports from "all over the internet"?

*plonk*

Hermann

 

[AndyRB]

It took two attempts for Zeiss to send me the correct sized objective cover; the first in the box were too big by far and the replacements sent out were too small and wouldn't even stay in place, but finally I received the correct ones in the post.

I think the value of forums like this is that manufacturers or dealers can gauge what provokes customer dissatisfaction and then hopefully respond to it and show that they value their customers. That's not forgetting general consumer feedback.

I've had two recent incidents with car spare problems with a top of the range Citroen estate. This is a current model C5 and firstly it took them two months to admit that they couldn't supply a split air-con pipe and another had to be adapted. Recently I had to source a new ball joint for it myself and actually take it to the Citroen dealer to fit, as due to staff cuts in the UK warehouse and in France there are backlogs in parts supply and my car was sat in the dealers for 2 weeks over Xmas and New Year. However, I recently found out that due to customers being very vocal about this problem, not least the dealerships voice, senior management are apparently responding to rectify this due to their awareness of customer dissatisfaction. But would I buy another Citroen again.....I'm not sure.

 

[Hermann]

It is the moving focus lens and no cause for concern.
I have heard of this countless times over the years with many makes of binocular - it usually occurs when people decide to hold their binocular next to their ear and shake it to see what happens !!!

Yep. That's what a user posting on the German forum heard from Zeiss in Wetzlar as well. I actually heard a slight noise (calling it a "rattle" is an exaggeration IMNSHO) on the two units I tried in December, too. I didn't even bother asking Zeiss representative about it because it's something I've heard with several different makes of binocular before.

Hermann

 

[AndyRB]

I think this is why I indicated that to call it a rattle is misleading - although others may have indeed heard a rattle. What I heard is something that didn't make me question if there was a fault and as Gary indicated there needs to be some play for this part of the mechanism.