New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (2 Viewers)

[Troubador]

John,

I'm with you on the diopter mechanisms. Best systems are the simplest, with no click-stops to limit you to prescribed diopter differentials between the two eyes, and preferably a separate adjustment so that you can tweak the overall focus while adjusting the right eye diopter. If we just stick to Zeiss, I find the easiest to use the Conquest HD system, next the Victory HT (which would be just fine except that the adjustment ring is a bit hard to turn with the binocular in the viewing position) and the FL-type system being my least favorite.

But now to a constructive tip for setting the diopter with bins that have that unnecessarily complicated pull-out focus knob systems. Rather than trying to perfectly focus your left side first, make the setting by viewing something like a field, meadow or lake/sea, where you can look at a surface extending away from you. Set the focus roughly to your desired viewing distance, and then pull out the focus knob. Now just gently adjust the diopter while scanning the surface front to back, and aim for a setting where both eyes are relaxed viewing at the same distance. Then push the knob back carefully, and double check the result with another front-back scan. I find this method both quicker and more accurate than the traditional method of using a set target, first focusing the left eye to it and then adjusting the right eye diopter to match.

Kimmo

Sounds like a great method Kimmo.

Lee

 

[Sancho]

I really hate this over complicated diopter nonsense, what`s wrong with turning a separate dial for heavens sake ?

Got to agree with you there Torview. Diopter on the right eyepiece. It was easy. It worked. It didn´t need changing. Now we have diopters mucking about behind the focus wheel and it´s all complicated, like digital timers on microwave ovens. Jeesh.

I haven't touched wine since I was 15 and a terrible incident involving a 'Chateau Le SpaceBag' ............ YUK ! positively ghastly stuff !!

Chosun :gh:

A mid-priced recommendation: Marqués de Caceres Reserva. About 17 euro. Cracking good wine. But I´ll withhold opinion on the Zeiss SF until I see one, which will probably be never.

 

[NDhunter]

John,

I'm with you on the diopter mechanisms. Best systems are the simplest, with no click-stops to limit you to prescribed diopter differentials between the two eyes, and preferably a separate adjustment so that you can tweak the overall focus while adjusting the right eye diopter. If we just stick to Zeiss, I find the easiest to use the Conquest HD system, next the Victory HT (which would be just fine except that the adjustment ring is a bit hard to turn with the binocular in the viewing position) and the FL-type system being my least favorite.

But now to a constructive tip for setting the diopter with bins that have that unnecessarily complicated pull-out focus knob systems. Rather than trying to perfectly focus your left side first, make the setting by viewing something like a field, meadow or lake/sea, where you can look at a surface extending away from you. Set the focus roughly to your desired viewing distance, and then pull out the focus knob. Now just gently adjust the diopter while scanning the surface front to back, and aim for a setting where both eyes are relaxed viewing at the same distance. Then push the knob back carefully, and double check the result with another front-back scan. I find this method both quicker and more accurate than the traditional method of using a set target, first focusing the left eye to it and then adjusting the right eye diopter to match.

Kimmo

Kimmo:

I also agree with the idea that simpler is better, give me a nice tight
right eye diopter. I do wonder why we ever got the center post
style, which requires a complex gearing affair, and issues with slippage
or friction of the focuser throwing the diopter off. Several alpha makers
have had issues with this, so seems silly.

A question, what maker started with this center diopter control ? Was it the
Leica Trinovid, just throwing this out there.

Kimmo, I asked this question weeks ago, as I have always enjoyed your
binocular and scope reviews. I have looked at one of the Finnish birding sites, but it was a while ago.
Are you still doing reviews that we can read without a subscription?

Jerry

 

[Alexis Powell]

...I also agree with the idea that simpler is better, give me a nice tight
right eye diopter. I do wonder why we ever got the center post
style, which requires a complex gearing affair, and issues with slippage
or friction of the focuser throwing the diopter off. Several alpha makers
have had issues with this, so seems silly.

A question, what maker started with this center diopter control ? Was it the
Leica Trinovid, just throwing this out there...

I don't like right-eye diopters that operate by moving the ocular lens in and out because they change the eye relief
in bins with twist-up eyecups.

Keep in mind that diopter control on the center post is not necessarily the same as having the diopter control integrated into the focus knob. It's the latter that hasn't always been well engineered. Center diopters that are separate from the focus knob are common in many older models from Zeiss, Swarovski and others, and in my experience they work well.

The Leica Trinovid Ultra BA models are the first bins that I remember with fully integrated diopter and focus. In my experience the Leica design works flawlessly. Too bad later designs from other makes have not been as good. But I'm not complaining. For me, the Swarovski EL and Zeiss FL designs work fine even if not as smoothly as Leica's.

--AP

 

[kabsetz]

Jerry,

I still do reviews, but at a slower rate. They are written in Finnish, for the BirdLife Finland magazine Linnut.
They have usually been posted on the Lintuvaruste website some six months or so after the magazine came out, and the English versions when I've had the time to translate them. Sometimes, like with the Swaro ATX review, the web versions have been expanded since there are no issues with layout and length like in a printed format.

So, some more will probably be trickling in, but due to the present format, they don't come that quickly.

I'm glad you appreciate my efforts.

Kimmo

 

[Troubador]

I don't like right-eye diopters that operate by moving the ocular lens in and out because they change the eye relief
in bins with twist-up eyecups.

Keep in mind that diopter control on the center post is not necessarily the same as having the diopter control integrated into the focus knob. It's the latter that hasn't always been well engineered. Center diopters that are separate from the focus knob are common in many older models from Zeiss, Swarovski and others, and in my experience they work well.

The Leica Trinovid Ultra BA models are the first bins that I remember with fully integrated diopter and focus. In my experience the Leica design works flawlessly. Too bad later designs from other makes have not been as good. But I'm not complaining. For me, the Swarovski EL and Zeiss FL designs work fine even if not as smoothly as Leica's.

--AP

I agree Alex, if the dioptre ring on the optical tube is stiff enough to not move accidentally, then when you start rotating it to make an adjustment you then start changing the IPD which throws the whole exercise off.

Having a dioptre adjuster on the centre axle but separate from the focuser seems the best compromise and my wife's 1976 Leitz Trinovid had this feature.

Lee

 

[ceasar]

I agree Alex, if the dioptre ring on the optical tube is stiff enough to not move accidentally, then when you start rotating it to make an adjustment you then start changing the IPD which throws the whole exercise off.

Having a dioptre adjuster on the centre axle but separate from the focuser seems the best compromise and my wife's 1976 Leitz Trinovid had this feature.

Lee

Lee,

Do you mean IPD or eye relief? When I have to change the diopter on binoculars where it is incorporated with the focus knob, in most cases I have to take the binocular off my eye so I can use my thumb and finger to make the change. This often requires opening the hinge wider and then re-setting the IPD. If it is on the right eyepiece I can leave it up against my eyes and turn it with my thumb and finger.

Bob

 

[Troubador]

Lee,

Do you mean IPD or eye relief? When I have to change the diopter on binoculars where it is incorporated with the focus knob, in most cases I have to take the binocular off my eye so I can use my thumb and finger to make the change. This often requires opening the hinge wider and then re-setting the IPD. If it is on the right eyepiece I can leave it up against my eyes and turn it with my thumb and finger.

Bob

Yo Bob

No I mean IPD. The Conquest HD 15x56 I tested recently has the dioptre adjuster on the right barrel just under the eyecup. It was so hard to turn on the example I had that if you try to do it while looking through the bins, the rotational force you apply twists the bins in your hand such that the IPD changes, just as Alex mentioned. Of course this means that once set the dioptre doesn't move but if you are used to setting the adjustment in the classic way its a bind.

Lee

 

[Alexis Powell]

...if you try to do it while looking through the bins, the rotational force you apply twists the bins in your hand such that the IPD changes, just as Alex mentioned...

Actually, you've identified a different problem than what I intended to describe! Yours is probably of more general concern than mine. My issue was with the eye relief. Some bins move the ocular front to back relative to the eyecup, thus changing the eye-relief for the right eye.

--AP

 

[brocknroller]

Lee I concur with ibramr, every time I got perfect focus on my 8x32FL left eye the act of pulling out or pushing in the diopter adjustment would shift the focus just a tad, I could never set it spot on either.

John.

John,

I believe that Holger had the same problem with his 8x32 FL. If I recall correctly, he said it was due to the focusing elements. Ideally, they should work in sync, so that each moves the exact some distances, but sometimes they don't, so you have to refocus after setting the diopter.

I had the opposite problem with my first sample Nikon 8x32 LX/HG. After focusing at different distances (close, medium, far), I would have to readjust the diopter for each distance. Thought it was my eyes, but it was much less of an issue with my second sample, which had a more precise focuser. The first one was rather loose and had some backlash.

Brock

 

[Vespobuteo]

o

I thought the subject of this thread was Zeiss SF….??

looking forward to the top-10 list of diopter adjustment mechanisms,
:-C

personally I would like to adjust my diopter from a smart phone app,

I heard that it's a new feature in Nikons upcoming EDG III SP,
expected in spring 2015, SP is for SmartPhone,
WiFi in the binos will be a very nice feature,

 

[Holger Merlitz]

John,

I believe that Holger had the same problem with his 8x32 FL. If I recall correctly, he said it was due to the focusing elements. Ideally, they should work in sync, so that each moves the exact some distances, but sometimes they don't, so you have to refocus after setting the diopter.

I had the opposite problem with my first sample Nikon 8x32 LX/HG. After focusing at different distances (close, medium, far), I would have to readjust the diopter for each distance. Thought it was my eyes, but it was much less of an issue with my second sample, which had a more precise focuser. The first one was rather loose and had some backlash.

Brock

Hi Brock,

It was the 8x32 Conquest HD, not FL.

Cheers,
Holger

 

[Troubador]

SF Video

Go to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6-Dr8yKWAw&feature=youtu.be

Lee

 

[ibramr]

Go to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6-Dr8yKWAw&feature=youtu.be

Lee

Thank you Lee. Parts of the clip are indeed an ode to the Swarovision design, even its bag. Still, it is a promising product, and look forward to trying it.

 

[Troubador]

Thank you Lee. Parts of the clip are indeed an ode to the Swarovision design, even its bag. Still, it is a promising product, and look forward to trying it.

Hi

The ode to the Swaro is the bit where Rob Williams says he used to use an 8.5x binocular....... :smoke:

Just to be clear Swaro EL SVs are fantastic instruments and its going to be fascinating seeing how SF compares.

No doubt Swaro has been working on an EL SV replacement and will now have to try a bit harder.

Lee

 

[8x60deckmount]

Nice - 148 / 1000 m It begins to be more close to my old zeiss 8x60 with 156 /1000 m

 

[brocknroller]

Hi Brock,

It was the 8x32 Conquest HD, not FL.

Cheers,
Holger

Holger,

Thanks. Right company, at least!

Brock

 

[BruceH]

Go to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6-Dr8yKWAw&feature=youtu.be

Lee

Lee ... Thanks for posting the video. It does provide more insight into the new Zeiss SF.

Four brief comments:

- After seeing the new binocular in a person's hand, it is larger than I had pictured in my mind.

- The objective lenses are recessed quite a bit. Comments have been made in other posts that some of the Swaro EL SV models had minor issues in handling stray light. This may give the Zeiss SF an advantage in the glare handling area.

- The video emphasized the handling characteristics with a rearward shift in weight. I suspect this will be a personal preference item with some loving it and some hating it.

- The Zeiss SF looks nicer than the original pictures posted a few days ago. The video mentioned the soft feel of the armor so it will be interesting to see how it differs from other models.

 

[Troubador]

Lee ... Thanks for posting the video. It does provide more insight into the new Zeiss SF.

Four brief comments:

- After seeing the new binocular in a person's hand, it is larger than I had pictured in my mind.

- The objective lenses are recessed quite a bit. Comments have been made in other posts that some of the Swaro EL SV models had minor issues in handling stray light. This may give the Zeiss SF an advantage in the glare handling area.

- The video emphasized the handling characteristics with a reward shift in weight. I suspect this will be a personal preference item with some loving it and some hating it.

- The Zeiss SF looks nicer than the original pictures posted a few days ago. The video mentioned the soft feel of the armor so it will be interesting to see how it differs from other models.

Hi Bruce


SF is a bit longer than the HT so yes its not a shortie, but hopefully it makes up for that with the balance and being a bit lighter than HT or EL SV

As I understand it the point of balance is about where your focusing hand goes so in theory it sounds really good and I can't see many people hating that. However we won't find out what they are really like until we get our hands on them. Over here that is likely to be the British Bird Fair from 15th to 17th August.

I like the look of the SF but before Chosun calls me a FanBoy I should say that I think Swaro's EL is also a design classic. The SF is up there with the EL for good looks, I think, although some photos don't show this. The way the corners of the objective bridge sweep upwards to meet the tubes is very elegant to me.

Lee

 

[Vespobuteo]

Go to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6-Dr8yKWAw&feature=youtu.be

Lee

Thanks! very good, it's my favorite movie for this year!
Better than any Ingmar Bergman movie I ever seen...

Gerold looked very satisfied

And Rob says "I used to use 8,5:s"…thats subtle marketing…
just love it!
:-O