Night vision equipment for mortals (5 Viewers)

[nmerc_photos]

also I'm still trying to figure out the best way to carry the thermal with gear

if you're using small lenses (70-200 f2.8, 300 f2.8, 400 4.5, 600 6.3) the cotton carrier system works great. I put the lens foot in the main slot, and the thermal on my side

but with the bigger primes like my 400TC for example, I have been wearing a cotton carrier just for holding the thermal, and then slinging the camera across my body with a peak design sling

if anyone has better ideas, I'd love to hear it

 

[Birding Bricker]

OK, I've just returned from West Africa, where I was able to give my T2 Pro a proper field test.

First off, the weight of the phone quickly made the T2 Pro carrying device work loose so my camera was flopping about and at a lop-sided angle. This was easily fixed once home by tightening up the holding screws with an allen key: something I will be carrying with me in future.

Onto how it performed in the field. The first place I tried it the weather was extremely hot during the day (40+ degrees C). Even in the cooler early morning it was still warm (25+ degrees C) and I was barely able to make out a Greyish Eagle-owl I was spotlighting because there was virtually no temperature difference between the owl and the surrounding vegetation. I was also surprised that nightjars sat on the roads at night actually appeared as cooler (i.e. blacker) than the road they were sat on (apart from their eyes). They were more easily found by looking for eyeshine with a spotlight. However, once found at distance, it was very useful to be able to approach them in the dark using the T2 Pro to see where they were before spotlighting them to identify the species. Once in a cooler part of the country, the T2 Pro proved invaluable in enabling me easily to locate a Northern White-faced Owl which stood out as a "hot spot" in the woodland.

So, clearly there's some limitations to the T2 Pro but overall I'm pretty impressed with it and it has certainly helped with night birding. I've no experience of using one of the expensive thermal scopes so can't comment on how the two compare in the field but I hope the above comments prove useful.

 

[Vollmeise]

@nmerc_photos: Well, I just strap my Pulsar XP around my neck. Eyepiece facing up, lens down. So it's 1 second with my right hand to grab and use it.

A chest mounted carrier needs two hands to unlock the thermal by turning and pulling it out and to take it the right way to use it then?

 

[nmerc_photos]

@nmerc_photos: Well, I just strap my Pulsar XP around my neck. Eyepiece facing up, lens down. So it's 1 second with my right hand to grab and use it.

A chest mounted carrier needs two hands to unlock the thermal by turning and pulling it out and to take it the right way to use it then?

The chest carrier is still one handed operation. I tried the neck strap before and didn't like it "flopping" around while I walked. It was also a bit awkward having two straps - one for the thermal and one for the camera.

I still haven't figured out a better solution yet.

 

[Birding Bricker]

OK, I've just returned from West Africa, where I was able to give my T2 Pro a proper field test.

First off, the weight of the phone quickly made the T2 Pro carrying device work loose so my camera was flopping about and at a lop-sided angle. This was easily fixed once home by tightening up the holding screws with an allen key: something I will be carrying with me in future.

Onto how it performed in the field. The first place I tried it the weather was extremely hot during the day (40+ degrees C). Even in the cooler early morning it was still warm (25+ degrees C) and I was barely able to make out a Greyish Eagle-owl I was spotlighting because there was virtually no temperature difference between the owl and the surrounding vegetation. I was also surprised that nightjars sat on the roads at night actually appeared as cooler (i.e. blacker) than the road they were sat on (apart from their eyes). They were more easily found by looking for eyeshine with a spotlight. However, once found at distance, it was very useful to be able to approach them in the dark using the T2 Pro to see where they were before spotlighting them to identify the species. Once in a cooler part of the country, the T2 Pro proved invaluable in enabling me easily to locate a Northern White-faced Owl which stood out as a "hot spot" in the woodland.

So, clearly there's some limitations to the T2 Pro but overall I'm pretty impressed with it and it has certainly helped with night birding. I've no experience of using one of the expensive thermal scopes so can't comment on how the two compare in the field but I hope the above comments prove useful.

Just back from Cyprus where the T2Pro proved invaluable in helping me locate for spotlighting calling Cyprus Scops-owls. The camera resolution doesn’t allow you to see any real detail on owls at several metres range but they stick out like candles lit up thanks to their thermal images.

 

[yangae]

Hi,
Keen to explore Hikmicro thermals for bird watching and wondering if I should consider:
A. Falcon FQ25 with the widest FOV, 640 and low NETD along with traditional bino and MFT camera - 3 gadgets
B. Transit to Habrok 4K or Habrok HQ35LN and MFT camera (if still necessary) - 2 or just 1 gadget.
Any suggestions ?
Thank you.

 

[stuarta21]

I have the Falcon FQ35 which I carry in my scope bag. If you digiscope you'd just need and adaptor for your phone plus your bins for a lightweight setup

 

[yangae]

@stuarta21 Thanks very much for your thoughts. I do digiscope at times but typically hike around using chest cotton carrier with MFD camera and binocular, no tripod. Hence was wondering if the Habrok 4K is good to replace the camera and binocular with thermal support.
Alternatively, the falcon specs whether FQ35, FQ25 seems to be good options for birders at the higher end for thermal.

 

[Foreigner]

Hi everyone! I've been going through the forum and feeling a bit of decision paralysis. I understand FOV is critical, but how important is lens size? I found an AGM TM15-348 at a good price, as well as some secondhand Pulsar Axion 2 XQ35 around the same price. According to nmerc_photos' extremely helpful list, the AGM has a wider FOV, which is ideal, but the Axion has a larger lens.

I’d like to use the thermal viewer mostly during daylight hours to spot birds in various environments (forests, reeds, plains, etc), to locate nests (owls, large woodpeckers, etc), and ideally have something that's able to pick up passerines. I understand that might be a lot to ask from 'budget' units but does anyone have insight into which of these options might be better suited?

 

[nmerc_photos]

Hi everyone! I've been going through the forum and feeling a bit of decision paralysis. I understand FOV is critical, but how important is lens size? I found an AGM TM15-348 at a good price, as well as some secondhand Pulsar Axion 2 XQ35 around the same price. According to nmerc_photos' extremely helpful list, the AGM has a wider FOV, which is ideal, but the Axion has a larger lens.

I’d like to use the thermal viewer mostly during daylight hours to spot birds in various environments (forests, reeds, plains, etc), to locate nests (owls, large woodpeckers, etc), and ideally have something that's able to pick up passerines. I understand that might be a lot to ask from 'budget' units but does anyone have insight into which of these options might be better suited?

I've had the opportunity to use both of the thermals you're considering (friend's units). Here are the specs against eachother for reference:


The lens size is mostly irrelevant on its own. It comes into play when considering other variables, all else equal.

Since your use case is quite varied (forests, reeds, plains) you might be able to get the Pulsar unit and enjoy it. For "more open" areas - it would be a better pick. It will allow you to pick up more detail, and effectively detect subjects that are further away (see 1750m detection range vs 710m).

I personally love the Pulsar customer support, UI, build quality, etc. - so I choose Pulsar wherever I can. I think they are the best overall brand. However, my use case is often very dense wooded areas - and using most of their small FOV thermals is a pain in the butt. That's why I'm still using their Helion XP28 which is decade(s?) old technology, instead of something more modern.

if you are someone who doesn't mind craning your neck and spending extra time scanning over areas, then FOV won't be a big deal for you. which would give even more credence to picking the 2 XQ35 in this case. one of my buddies who actually owns the 2 XQ35 is not bothered by the small FOV, and loves the unit. I think it's all a very personal thing. also - if you never try a thermal with a wide FOV, you'll never even have any idea what you're missing - and you'll be extremely impressed with the pulsar.

also do note - that the only time you'll effectively be able to use a thermal during daylight hours are if it's fairly cold, and also overcast. the effect of sunlight can completely nullify even the best thermals.

 

[Foreigner]

@nmerc_photos Thank you so much for the thorough reply, that's very helpful information!! How cold would you say it needs to be? Your comment on temperature is certainly giving me some food for thought. I could see myself using it at dawn and early evening/dusk (especially to spot nightjar before the light is completely gone) but I don't really head out on my own at night so doubt it would get much use when it's very dark.

 

[nmerc_photos]

@nmerc_photos Thank you so much for the thorough reply, that's very helpful information!! How cold would you say it needs to be? Your comment on temperature is certainly giving me some food for thought. I could see myself using it at dawn and early evening/dusk (especially to spot nightjar before the light is completely gone) but I don't really head out on my own at night so doubt it would get much use when it's very dark.

Usually I don't use my thermals unless it is below 55F (12.8C?). You can certainly use it at all temps - but you need there to be a certain level of temperature differential between you and your subject. The bigger the differential - the better your results will be, and the easier it will be to detect things. Additionally, the "NETD" attribute is what tells you "how small" of a difference in thermal temperature a unit can measure. In this case, 35mK for AGM and 40mK for Pulsar. Neither one is "stellar" but both will do the job, and both are close enough together that it probably isn't a deciding factor in which thermal to use. My Helion XP 28 is 60mK and works fantastic. My Telos XP 50 that I had was 18mK and it was definitely a massive difference - but still not enough to override the small FOV (imo).

I find the best use case for me is going out in the morning before sunrise, using the equipment in near pitch darkness - locating my subject, and then waiting for daylight so I can scope or photograph it.

I will also use the thermal in the evenings, but it's much more effective in the morning (after a long night of darkness and colder temps) rather than in the evening (after a long day of sunlight and warmer temps).

On my trip to the Sax Zim Bog in January 2024 it was cold (sub 40F everyday) and most days were completely cloudy. In those situations, I used the thermal 24/7 from the minute I was awake until the minute I went to bed. It was amazing.

 

[opisska]

Yeah that's my wife, she will thermal in a rainforest all day unless sunlight comes through and makes spots. In our experience it doesn't need to be really cold, but I think this is specific to rainforests - because there the temperature even on a warm day is very uniform and that what actually matters. The animals are still warmer.

But I don't enjoy this. Yes, it finds more animals, but when it's not dark, I really enjoy seeing things.

 

[Mono]

If you want one you have to take the plunge, certain that in 6 months time there will be, as with most things technological, a cheaper and better available!

 

[nmerc_photos]

If you want one you have to take the plunge, certain that in 6 months time there will be, as with most things technological, a cheaper and better available!

not necessarily the case, as we've seen with the FOV and Helion XP28

released nearly 8 years ago and there's still nothing better, regardless of price. certainly nothing cheaper!

 

[Foreigner]

Thanks all for the insights! I think I'm going to go for it in the end but start with something a bit more budget friendly. I will report back on my experience once I've picked something out and start using it!

 

[nmerc_photos]

if anyone has any other models they'd like added to my spreadsheet, please let me know...

I haven't paid much attention to thermals in the last 9 months since it's been too warm to really use them. as we close in on winter, I'm starting to review again.

looks like Pulsar recently came out with a Telos XL 50, which is sort of a medium ground in terms of FOV between the Helion XP28 and Telos XP50 - but costs a ton more than either option, but has much higher resolution.

I'm considering picking one up and selling both of my XP28's. I still think the XP28 is the best all arounder for birders/photographers, but I don't use mine that much and it may be nicer to have a more modern (see: USB-C) capable monocular.

 

[Bill Atwood]

How important is focusing ability on these thermals? The AGM 15-384 has among the widest FOV currently available and is reasonably priced, however it lacks focus capability.

The Pixfra Arc A613 has a FOV of 32 degrees. I'd probably pick it up in a heartbeat, but it appears to only be available in Europe.

 

[stuarta21]

if anyone has any other models they'd like added to my spreadsheet, please let me know...

I haven't paid much attention to thermals in the last 9 months since it's been too warm to really use them. as we close in on winter, I'm starting to review again.

looks like Pulsar recently came out with a Telos XL 50, which is sort of a medium ground in terms of FOV between the Helion XP28 and Telos XP50 - but costs a ton more than either option, but has much higher resolution.

I'm considering picking one up and selling both of my XP28's. I still think the XP28 is the best all arounder for birders/photographers, but I don't use mine that much and it may be nicer to have a more modern (see: USB-C) capable monocular.

View attachment 1611013

What's the significance of the highlighted models? I have the Hikmicro FQ35 and I've been very happy with it, I thought the spec was excellent for the price I got it a year ago

 

[nmerc_photos]

How important is focusing ability on these thermals? The AGM 15-384 has among the widest FOV currently available and is reasonably priced, however it lacks focus capability.

The Pixfra Arc A613 has a FOV of 32 degrees. I'd probably pick it up in a heartbeat, but it appears to only be available in Europe.

Do you mean it has no focus ability at all? Or it just isn't as detailed as you'd like?

I've only tested the AGM TM10-256, and I don't recall having any issues with focusing.

The specs on that Pixfra Arc A613 look very interesting.... 13mm f1 lens and 640 x 512 sensor with 12um and <30MK NETD. if all those specs are true, it would be a great value.

What's the significance of the highlighted models? I have the Hikmicro FQ35 and I've been very happy with it, I thought the spec was excellent for the price I got it a year ago

The highlighted ones are just the ones I was talking about in that message. I've owned the Telos XP50, have 2 Helion XP28s right now, and am likely going to buy the XL 50 next