Nightingale "THRUSH",Sinai (3 Viewers)

[KenM]

Jane

Thanks very much!....for highlighting the wing formula, certainly invaluable for determining...especially with an an in-hand examination.

I wonder what % of rung TN's have 8 evenly spaced prims? and how do they 'cosmetically' compare to the CN 8's? Have 'enough' CN and TN's been rung to state categorically that the last paragraph is absolute?

Cheers

 

[Jane Turner]

If I get the chance I'll look through some photos - the even spacing of obvious TNs should be quick to demonstrate

 

[Jane Turner]

Right, in most of the TNs I could see, the spacing of the longest visible 3 primaries was almost exactly the same. I found one where they were a little uneven. CNs showing 8pps are rarer - but the one I did find showed a very similar spacing to doozers bird.

 

[KenM]

Jane

It would appear that the spacing on your 3rd image...proportionately compares to doozers bird, if I've read it correctly?

 

[Jane Turner]

Yes - and that is a Common Nightingale

 

[doozer]

Is it really possible without a singing bird to clearly ID these guys in the field?
Here are a couple more of the shots taken, don't know how they would or could swing the discussion.
I really appreciate the effort you guys put into these questions as I am sure many others do to.

 

[Jane Turner]

That right hand photo shows that the 1st primary is indeed curving away and carries on to level at least with the GCs

 

[KenM]

Jane

I presume that where CN (albeit rarely) sports 6 equi-distant primaries with p2and p3 being 'staggered' as in doozer's bird.....also enjoys the same wing formula as an 'evenly spaced' 8 or 7 p.t. bird ?

I'm surprised! that CN should come in 3 variants! a 7 pt (evenly spaced-the norm), an 8pt (evenly spaced-rare) and an 8pt with 2 and 3 staggered as rare or rarer?...Is there any cosmetic consistency to the variants?

I always pay 'homage' to structure/vocal as it's primary to ID. and treat 'subtle plumage' as subjective and supportive at best! However with doozer's bird in my opinion ,the cosmetics strongly allude to TN. at every point. So much so, that in conjunction with the 'rare' wing structure, it justifies more research on these 'accepted' variants.

It might be a consideration that the 8pt spaced and uneven, could refer to hybridization?

 

[KenM]

These Images are certainly better than the previous! I can now see warm buff 'touches' to the underparts.

The third image certainly shows that the first primary could indeed 'match' the coverts...but I don't see it going beyond! Also the first image if I've read it correctly is showing 7 PT's?

 

[Parker]

I think the first pt, counting outwards, on one of the original photo's would fall under the longest tertial if the wing was properly closed & so give us only 7 visable pt's as can be seen on the first of the new photo's. So it's a Nightingale.

Cheers, Neil.

 

[KenM]

Irrespective of whether the 8th pt is visible or not. It still has 8 pt's as opposed to 7!

 

[KenM]

Apologies!....I now understand that CN and TN have the same number of primaries! I misread the text.

cheers

 

[Lappkrabben]

In the end i guess this thread show how much we all use the knowledge of the birds around us. For me as i look at this bird it screems no TN.

TN is a bird with grey blurry chest/throat and not as red tail as this bird shows. I'm not used to CN but can tell this is not a TN.

But details allways help and i'm very grateful to those who have cleared out all the feather details of this bird. Hat of !