NL's are simply the best! (3 Viewers)

[jackjack]

I wouldn't trade 10 SRBC's for one NL. IMO, they are Chinese junk.

Review: United Optics 12x50 Sky Rover (Banner Cloud) APO

so, holger merlitz, which you just say to believe... says 'phenomenal performance' to the bino you say 'Junk'
so is he completely wrong this time?

honestly, did you trust him or not?
another change of opinion ready to go 🤔?

and plus, I have never mentioned SRBC is equal with NL even in terms of central sharpness.

moreover I specifically pointed the lack of overall optical quality in my comparison regarding 10x42, 12x50 SRBC.

please read the posts more cautiously before disagreeing it.
I didn't wrote them in Korean...

I don't want to keep this tedious argument for long but some of your words have serious lack of probability which I have to point it out for the health of this forum...

and also, is there are really 12x52 NL that you insist to exsist?
I'd really like to get my hand on those 😀

 

[Dennis Mau]

I disagree with Holger on the review of the SRBC. I don't agree with every reviewer all the time, just like I don't agree with many of yours because reviews are just mostly subjective opinions. The problem I have with your reviews is they are subjective, but you present them as being fact. You rank binoculars subjectively for brightness and present your results as if it was written in stone. It could be partly due to your poor command of the English language. Saying things like the Swarovski EL is sharper than the Swarovski NL because jackjack says it is so and presenting it as a fact is just misleading to Bird Forum members. Maybe you should try using IMO more in your reviews, so people realize it is just your opinion. Don't get me wrong I appreciate your opinions, but they are just that, an opinion and as they say everybody has one. Swarovski doesn't make an NL 12x52. I got that confused with the NL 12x42.

 

[forent]

I don't care if someone chooses a different "best binocular in the world" every month and regularly overturns his opinions and evaluation criteria.
What I find unacceptable is when people do the same to people:

Why do Zeiss's alpha level binoculars like the FL and SF have some of the best CA control of any binoculars?

From Allbinoshttps://www.allbinos.com/2.1-article-How_do_we_test_binoculars_.html) "You can ask one question here – whether you should trust implicitly all scores, presented in different test categories. The answer is no. All physical measurements are fraught with measurement errors, both...

www.birdforum.net

 

[jgraider]

Nothing new forent, unfortunately.

 

[Jinac]

This thread is passionating, and fun...maybe passionating because fun ^^

I'm totally noob for bino and for lot of things here (and elsewere...) but I feel normal that some review made by and for human was subjective, it's a human eye which will to use theses items so it's always interesting to read experiences of people (only if they have no conflicts of interest, brand affiliation etc.).
Sometimes the best "on the paper" can be the worst in real life...

Last words, and no offense (my english is weak so I can misunderstand) but reading title and posts of denco make me litte uncomfortable...looks like more seller's pitch than user retex...could be the "best balanced bino for now" and one of the more expensive by one of the best brand...

 

[tenex]

No, there is an NL 10x52, NL 12x52 and NL 14x52. They are in short supply. There was big demand for them as soon as they were released. Probably by hunters.

There. Is. No. 12x52. How shall we judge the opinions of someone who can't get a simple fact straight, even after it's been questioned?

What I find unacceptable is when people do the same to people

The principle seems to be that Denco can "trust" people who agree with him... but no one agrees with him all the time. This reminds me of the psychologists who think a child has to split the good mommy from the bad one, which I was previously disinclined to believe. The good Holger (or Henry, jackjack, etc) agrees with Denco, the bad one doesn't. What is he to do?

isn't it really reckless to think bino with higher price is always everything better then lower price one?
or just an nonchalant opinion to guess the bino without seeing it for real.

Denco is constantly in the justification business. His opinions are too unstable for anything else. Objectivity sounds nice, but where is it to be found? No wonder this makes people uncomfortable.

 

[Bentley03]

I wouldn't trade 10 SRBC's for one NL. IMO, they are Chinese junk.

Just for the record, I'm thoroughly enjoying ALL my recently acquired Chinese junk which, as well as the four SRBC's, also includes an APM 6.5x32 CF ED. I'm (very) seriously impressed by them all, and thoroughly enjoying them. No regrets from me whatsoever, after buying a load of Chinese junk.

Just sharing my opinion. 😇

 

[Dennis Mau]

There. Is. No. 12x52. How shall we judge the opinions of someone who can't get a simple fact straight, even after it's been questioned?


The principle seems to be that Denco can "trust" people who agree with him... but no one agrees with him all the time. This reminds me of the psychologists who think a child has to split the good mommy from the bad one, which I was previously disinclined to believe. The good Holger (or Henry, jackjack, etc) agrees with Denco, the bad one doesn't. What is he to do?


Denco is constantly in the justification business. His opinions are too unstable for anything else. Objectivity sounds nice, but where is it to be found? No wonder this makes people uncomfortable.

I corrected that about the NL 12x52(In post#62). I would swear I saw an NL 12x52, but I think it was an NL 12x42. Likewise, I guess it makes sense they make the NL 10x52 and NL 14x52 with a higher magnification with the bigger 52mm aperture. It kind of replaces the SLC 15x56, which was a hunter favorite. My point I was trying to make with reviews is that most of them including Holger's and jackjack's are just subjective reviews based on what they see, so you can hardly expect everybody to agree with them all the time because we have different eyes and brains. Reviews are helpful though because they give you an idea about how a binocular might perform, but I would never make a purchase decision on somebodies review unless I planned just to try it and see if I like it or not.

I tried the SRBC because of Holger's review, and I didn't care for it. That just means we didn't agree on that particular binocular. I like Allbinos reviews because they do attempt to do some objective testing, and I like how they assign a numerical value to different criteria based on their objective and subjective testing and subsequently rank the binoculars according to the results. I personally have tried a lot of the binoculars Allbinos has tested, and I agree with them 95% of the time, so I have come to trust them based on experience. Furthermore, I bet you money if Allbinos tested a SRBC, it would be ranked low in their rankings.

The trouble I have with jackjack's reviews is he is subjectively testing things like brightness and sharpness with his own eyes, and those kinds of things can be wildly different between different people because everybody's eyes are so different. When he says an EL is sharper than an NL or ranks binoculars by their brightness, there is no way I would believe his results unless it is proven objectively and his photos prove nothing because looking at them, I can't tell which binocular is sharper or brighter. There are too many variables in a photo to prove anything optically about a binocular, IMO. So reviews can be valuable, and I like Allbinos reviews the best because after having a lot of the binoculars they have tested, I agree with them more often than most reviewers.

 

[Dennis Mau]

I really feel the NL 8x32's are the very best birding binocular on the market right now. They took the BBR Best Binocular of the Year Award, and they are ranked number one on Allbinos in the 8x32 class, beating the Zeiss SF 8x32. Anytime Allbinos tests an NL, it is ranked first! The cream always rises to the top!

Swarovski NL Pure 8x32 Binoculars​

As well as the winner of the best overall binoculars in 2024, these 8x32 Swarovski NL Pure binoculars take the award as best mid-sized binocular as they deliver an unparalleled image quality and viewing experience all in a reasonably compact size for a 32mm instrument.

Complementing their exceptional optical performance are their elegant ergonomic design, premium materials, and sturdy construction, making them not only a pleasure to use but also a reliable instrument built to endure a lifetime of use.

While it's conceivable that other mid-sized binoculars may excel in certain aspects, at 95%, their BBR score confirms that none surpass the NL Pure 8x32 in overall performance and quality, and thus I have no hesitation in declaring them as the overall Best Mid-Size Binocular 2024 on BBR and up there with the very best that I have ever tested.

Body Quality:​ 9/10 95% Exceptional​ Body Stats:​ 8/10 Optical Quality:​ 10/10 Optical Stats:​ 10/10 Image Quality​ 10/10 Extras & Details:​ 10/10

Main Strengths

• Exceptionally crafted optical components and coatings ensure unparalleled image quality and brightness.
• Remarkably wide field of view enhances the viewing experience.
• Sleek modern design offers superior comfort during use.
• Seamless focusing mechanism enables swift and precise adjustments.
• Metal eye-piece housings and eyecups feature an outstanding twist up/down mechanism with 7 click stops and 18mm of eye-relief.
• Includes top-notch quality accessories for added convenience and functionality, worth of a true alpha-level binocular.

Best Mid-Size Binoculars 2025 | Travel, Safaris, Birding, Hunting & Marine

The 2025 BBR Awards for the Very Best Mid-Size binoculars for Travel, Safaris, Birding, Hunting, Widlife & Marine Uses

www.bestbinocularsreviews.com

Binoculars rankings - 8x32 - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

 

[roweraay]

No, there is an NL 10x52, NL 12x52 and NL 14x52. They are in short supply.

I am certain there's no 12x52. There is a 12x42, but no 12x52.

There are two 52mm NL models, and those are the 10x52 and 14x52.

 

[roweraay]

These days it's the NL pure 12x42 that has given me that feeling again

I purchased a used 12x42NL and resold it, and currently have the 8x42NL. I agree with the point about the 12x42NL being really special, with its immersive 71 degree AFOV.

 

[agus_m]

I like Allbinos reviews because they do attempt to do some objective testing, and I like how they assign a numerical value to different criteria based on their objective and subjective testing and subsequently rank the binoculars according to the results

You can argue that Allbinos's tests are somewhat objective, but the weight they put on the score of every individual aspect is not (and there are many things they don't test). You can take Allbino's scoring system, use different weights according to your priorities, and you'll get a different ranking list.

 

[jackjack]

There. Is. No. 12x52. How shall we judge the opinions of someone who can't get a simple fact straight, even after it's been questioned?


The principle seems to be that Denco can "trust" people who agree with him... but no one agrees with him all the time. This reminds me of the psychologists who think a child has to split the good mommy from the bad one, which I was previously disinclined to believe. The good Holger (or Henry, jackjack, etc) agrees with Denco, the bad one doesn't. What is he to do?


Denco is constantly in the justification business. His opinions are too unstable for anything else. Objectivity sounds nice, but where is it to be found? No wonder this makes people uncomfortable.

sorry for interruption...
but who is Henry?

 

[CharleyBird]

The problem I have with your reviews...you present them as being fact...written in stone. It could be partly due to your poor command of the English language.

Pot-kettle.
There are times you write stuff that makes me laugh out loud.

[email protected]
The NL 8x42 has only a 9 m advantage in FOV over the FL 7x42, but if you consider the much better DOF of the FL 7x42 versus the NL 8x42 the TFOV that is actually in focus at any one time is much greater in the FL 7x42. Think of it as a spherical FOV, with the 7x having a much bigger sphere than the 8x. That is one of the big advantages of a 7x42 over a 8x42, you can see much more and spot many more birds, especially in dense foliage because of the greater DOF or bigger sphere. You are also seeing a more 3D image with a 7x than the more pie plate flat image of a 8x, especially with the NL, and you don't have to focus near as much. In fact, beyond about 10m, you don't even have to focus at all with a 7x.

denco, given what you wrote above, how many extra birds were you spotting with a 7x?

How many birds are you now failing to spot with your new 8x that you would have seen with 7x?

How did/do you even know you have failed to spot a bird?

 

[CharleyBird]

sorry for interruption...
but who is Henry?

Henry Link, a long term & respected member from the early 2000's, who I believe (wisely) has denco on ignore after various debates & ad hominem events.

 

[jackjack]

You can argue that Allbinos's tests are somewhat objective, but the weight they put on the score of every individual aspect is not (and there are many things they don't test). You can take Allbino's scoring system, use different weights according to your priorities, and you'll get a different ranking list.

All binos put more focus on flat field bino. I won't say it is perfectly wrong, but because of them some odd thing happen.
such as Vanguard Endeavor ED2 10x42 won on points compared to Leica UVHD+ 10x42
(so, is UV inferior bino or just less flat bino that have disadvantages of allbino's scoreboard?)

After having seen many of the bino that all bino reviewed (at least 50 I guess)
I presonally sees four parts of allbino review

1. Colorfidelity (not points but graph they show after aroung 2015)

2. FOV

3. Edge sharpness (but I think allbino teds to favor the bit of fuzziness more such as they give NL a full point)

4. Close focus

I'm not saying all of other part can be ignored, but saying those 4 tends to be best fit to my experience of the excact bino

 

[crinklystarfish]

I agree with the point about the 12x42NL being really special...

Me too, it's why mine have been in (almost) daily use as my go-to all-rounder since they were first released. I also have an NL8x32 for closed habitat / butterflies / dragonflies etc. I personally consider that both are truly exceptional.

Denco is constantly in the justification business.

I tend to agree, but would add that the inevitably short-lived yet wildly-enthusiastic justifications frequently posted are probably more about attempting to convince himself that his (ultimately futile) search for binocular-based contentment is finally over.

The easiest option would be to dismiss Denco's ramblings as the extemporisations of a somewhat troubled soul; except I also personally think he has a reasonably reliable eye and has probably auditioned more binoculars than most.

The binary choice of uncritically taking or dismissing his views completely could be argued to be far too simplistic and very unwise.

 

[kabsetz]

Jackjack,

Henry Link's posts are worthwhile reading for any serious binocular enthusiast. You might find especially the threads that he has started interesting.
The following is on spotting scopes, but a good example nonetheless: Resolution and Star Tests of ATX Scopes

- Kimmo

 

[Dennis Mau]

You can argue that Allbinos's tests are somewhat objective, but the weight they put on the score of every individual aspect is not (and there are many things they don't test). You can take Allbino's scoring system, use different weights according to your priorities, and you'll get a different ranking list.

Allbinos likes a big FOV, flat fields, low distortion and sharp edges and so do I. That is why they are my preferred review site. We see eye to eye.

 

[Dennis Mau]

Henry Link, a long term & respected member from the early 2000's, who I believe (wisely) has denco on ignore after various debates & ad hominem events.

No, Henry loves me. We have been arguing for 20 years!