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porro cascades? (1 Viewer)
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I bought the Opticron 8x42 version because the Norwegian website Kikkertspesialisten rated it as only a hairsbreadth under the top three. These were its scores (with the top-rated Zeiss FL in parenthesis):
Sharpness..........10+.(10+)
Contrast...........10+.(11)
Brightness..........9+.(10+)
Edge Sharpness.....10+.(11)
Use with Glasses...12-.(11)
Build Quality......10..(10)
I've found it to be excellent in use and have even stopped hankering after the aforementioned Zeiss...almost. The only change I would like to see is an increase in the eyecup diameter. Oh, and a wider FOV. And a closer minimum focus. But for eighty-something pounds off eBay, it's been fantastic value. As a bonus, it's a bit lighter than the top three and its wide porro design distributes its weight more evenly, which is good for my worn-and-torn neck vertebrae.
Michael
That's right; it happens a lot. Companies like Opticron just badge products they buy in from Japanese makers. The Opticron Traveller 6x32 and Leupold Katmai 6x32 share the same close similarity.
Michael
FrankD
Well-known member
I am going to take the opportunity to comment on this thread instead of starting a new one. I had briefly owned a Leupold Cascade porro in the 8x42 configuration. For whatever reason I could not get comfortable with it optically. At the time and up until a few short weeks ago I attributed that uncomfortable feeling to the fact that the bin combined the wonderful 3D porro effect with an effectively narrow true and apparent field of view. After having purchased a second pair and giving them a fair shake I must say that I am becoming more and more enamored with their optical performance and overall handling.
Here is what I like about them.....
1. Handling...these bins are very well contoured and have an excellent feel to them because of their overall weight and weight distribution. The fit in my hands like no other porro bin I have owned (Nikon SE, EII, Action EX, E, Leupold Yosemite, Celestron Ultima DX). Their feel is very "solid" in that everything feels like one piece as opposed to the eyepiece/bridge and then the prisms and barrels found in more of the conventional porro prism designs. They feel decidedly roof prism in nature because of their internal focus design. However, the wider spaced objective definitely allow me to get a very solid grip on them.
2. The focusing tension and speed. By today's standards these binoculars are actually a bit slow in focusing speed. They require 2 full turns to go from a close focus of about 10 feet to infinity. As I have mentioned in other binocular reviews I do not consider this a negative in that it gives the user an excellent sense of control on the relative sharpness of the image. It is much easier to get that "snap" of perfect sharpness on any given object. The tension of the focusing knob is also excellent in my opinion. Not too stiff and not too loose. If asked I would say it is almost perfect for my tastes.
3. Optically the bins speak for themselves. They give the classic 3D feel of a porro image. The image is bright (brighter than any comparatively priced roof), sharp and extremely color neutral. The field stop is also excellent in that no stray light permeates the black field surrounding the image. Edge distortion is extremely low though there is a very small amount of field curvature around the outer 5-10% of the image. Probably the only optical performance aspect that could be improved upon is the level of contrast. Though very good compared to similarly priced roofs it falls short of the premium porros and high end roofs. I take this to be a result of the type and quality of coatings used on the glass. A simple fix if Leupold ever eventually decided to improve upon the design.
These binoculars have now been discontinued by Leupold. I have found them at several places for less than $230. At this price they are a steal for their handling and optical performance. I would sincerely suggest buying one of these before they disappear entirely.
Here is what I like about them.....
1. Handling...these bins are very well contoured and have an excellent feel to them because of their overall weight and weight distribution. The fit in my hands like no other porro bin I have owned (Nikon SE, EII, Action EX, E, Leupold Yosemite, Celestron Ultima DX). Their feel is very "solid" in that everything feels like one piece as opposed to the eyepiece/bridge and then the prisms and barrels found in more of the conventional porro prism designs. They feel decidedly roof prism in nature because of their internal focus design. However, the wider spaced objective definitely allow me to get a very solid grip on them.
2. The focusing tension and speed. By today's standards these binoculars are actually a bit slow in focusing speed. They require 2 full turns to go from a close focus of about 10 feet to infinity. As I have mentioned in other binocular reviews I do not consider this a negative in that it gives the user an excellent sense of control on the relative sharpness of the image. It is much easier to get that "snap" of perfect sharpness on any given object. The tension of the focusing knob is also excellent in my opinion. Not too stiff and not too loose. If asked I would say it is almost perfect for my tastes.
3. Optically the bins speak for themselves. They give the classic 3D feel of a porro image. The image is bright (brighter than any comparatively priced roof), sharp and extremely color neutral. The field stop is also excellent in that no stray light permeates the black field surrounding the image. Edge distortion is extremely low though there is a very small amount of field curvature around the outer 5-10% of the image. Probably the only optical performance aspect that could be improved upon is the level of contrast. Though very good compared to similarly priced roofs it falls short of the premium porros and high end roofs. I take this to be a result of the type and quality of coatings used on the glass. A simple fix if Leupold ever eventually decided to improve upon the design.
These binoculars have now been discontinued by Leupold. I have found them at several places for less than $230. At this price they are a steal for their handling and optical performance. I would sincerely suggest buying one of these before they disappear entirely.
Tero
Retired
I looked at the 8x30 Yosemites, and in my opinion Leupold should have invested in the step above that, say 200 dollar porros. Light weight and sold in 30mm and 40mm sizes. Not quite sure who likes to haul the 50mm porros around, but they are for me unnecessary.
The Mesas, still sold I guess, do not have the 400ft fov of many other 8x porros.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2696
8x Cascades, still available
http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-cascades-8x42mm-internal-focus-porro-prism-binoculars-60992.html
Someone on this board concluded that nearly all internal focus porros have smaller fov than the traditional kind.
Minox included
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4572
The Mesas, still sold I guess, do not have the 400ft fov of many other 8x porros.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=2696
8x Cascades, still available
http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-cascades-8x42mm-internal-focus-porro-prism-binoculars-60992.html
Someone on this board concluded that nearly all internal focus porros have smaller fov than the traditional kind.
Minox included
http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?pid=4572
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FrankD
Well-known member
True, that is the trade-off because of eyepiece design. The benefit is better edge sharpness, excellent clarity and a brighter image (than comparatively priced roof prism models). The Cascade porros have turned into keepers for me. They can still be found at a few places like the opticsplanet that you linked but they will only last so long.
stereotruckdriver
Well-known member
Well since I have had these (8x42) model for a few days thought I would shed some light as to my thought's! First is fov, the stated 335ft @ 1000 yds. Very deceptive, acctually feels more like 380 to 390ft. Distortion not being measured probably outer 1/4 of field. Center field sharpness is outstanding for the $140.00 I paid let alone 8x's that for that much! Handling is superb very light weight 25.2 oz for a Porro! The deal clincher might be the focussing? Mine is a little sticky right now, hopefully it loosen's some in the next few day's, if not I will send them in for service! Mine say made in Japan? I know the Pinnacles were just didn't think any of the Wind River's except them were made in Japan. Build quality seam's good, I just question the diopter center focus dial? I don't find it overly robust in comparison to the rest of the binocular! Time will tell? Bryce...
stereotruckdriver
Well-known member
It only took about 2min! What the H#@# Lol!!! That's reasuring to know Frank, thanks. Bryce.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I measured the field of the Cascades porro 8x42 and get the specified number (just a little low ... I think there is some change in magnification that reduces it a little). See the thread on FOV of the Hawke and other Chinese EDs.
And in use I find it too narrow to keep me happy. Happiness starts at about 7.1 degrees for me and I'm happy at 7.5 though I prefer it even bigger if the ER is such that I can see the whole field when wearing glasses.
Nice bin otherwise.
FrankD
Well-known member
Something interesting I found about the Cascade porros is that they really shine when tripod mounted. That may sound strange but I found it when comparing different models in my possesion several weeks ago. The large sweet and excellent "apparent" depth of field made them superb optical instruments to peek through when tripod mounted. Other porros faired well but these just seemed to stand out from the crowd.
Do you regret buying yours Kevin?
Do you regret buying yours Kevin?
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I don't regret buying them. They're just not the best they could be. But they are my only internal focus porro. Perhaps thats the compromise.
But I think folks should be aware of the relatively narrow FOV. They are rather narrower than other bins I have (even narrower than the Bushnell Legend 8x42 but only by a tenth of a degree). So for finding and following they are not always perfect.
Glowing reviews are great but keeping all the part of the compromise in view is a good idea!
But for the price ($150 or so) they have a good view, great ergonomics (the best of any porro I've used), nice focus friction and are the most waterproof porro I've used (though I've not actually tested that).
If only they had a wider field ... and better color correction (ED objective + LaK EP) they'd be perfect!
That said I'm using my Canon 10x30 IS a lot recently: a porro in a funny box that I can hold very steadily. And that only had a 6 degree FOV. And I know how many birds I've lost because of the narrower field. And it has smaller exit pupils and worse colour correction. But the steady hold plus IS is a big win.
If only they had a wider field ... and better color correction (ED objective + LaK EP) they'd be perfect! Wait, didn't I just say that about the Cascades!
As I said everything is a compromise
But I think folks should be aware of the relatively narrow FOV. They are rather narrower than other bins I have (even narrower than the Bushnell Legend 8x42 but only by a tenth of a degree). So for finding and following they are not always perfect.
Glowing reviews are great but keeping all the part of the compromise in view is a good idea!
But for the price ($150 or so) they have a good view, great ergonomics (the best of any porro I've used), nice focus friction and are the most waterproof porro I've used (though I've not actually tested that).
If only they had a wider field ... and better color correction (ED objective + LaK EP) they'd be perfect!
That said I'm using my Canon 10x30 IS a lot recently: a porro in a funny box that I can hold very steadily. And that only had a 6 degree FOV. And I know how many birds I've lost because of the narrower field. And it has smaller exit pupils and worse colour correction. But the steady hold plus IS is a big win.
If only they had a wider field ... and better color correction (ED objective + LaK EP) they'd be perfect! Wait, didn't I just say that about the Cascades!
As I said everything is a compromise
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I don't regret buying them. They're just not the best they could be. But they are my only internal focus porro. Perhaps thats the compromise.
But I think folks should be aware of the relatively narrow FOV. They are rather narrower than other bins I have (even narrower than the Bushnell Legend 8x42 but only by a tenth of a degree). So for finding and following they are not always perfect.
Glowing reviews are great but keeping all the part of the compromise in view is a good idea!
But for the price ($150 or so) they have a good view, great ergonomics (the best of any porro I've used), nice focus friction and are the most waterproof porro I've used (though I've not actually tested that). If only they had a wider field ... and better color correction (ED objective + LaK EP) they'd be perfect!
That said I'm using my Canon 10x30 IS a lot recently: a porro in a funny box that I can hold very steadily. And that only had a 6 degree FOV. And I know how many birds I've lost because of the narrower field. And it has smaller exit pupils and worse colour correction than the Cascades. But the steady hold with the extra magnification plus IS when needed is a big win. If only they had a wider field ... and better color correction (ED objective + LaK EP) they'd be perfect! Wait, didn't I just say that about the Cascades!
As I said everything is a compromise
But I think folks should be aware of the relatively narrow FOV. They are rather narrower than other bins I have (even narrower than the Bushnell Legend 8x42 but only by a tenth of a degree). So for finding and following they are not always perfect.
Glowing reviews are great but keeping all the part of the compromise in view is a good idea!
But for the price ($150 or so) they have a good view, great ergonomics (the best of any porro I've used), nice focus friction and are the most waterproof porro I've used (though I've not actually tested that). If only they had a wider field ... and better color correction (ED objective + LaK EP) they'd be perfect!
That said I'm using my Canon 10x30 IS a lot recently: a porro in a funny box that I can hold very steadily. And that only had a 6 degree FOV. And I know how many birds I've lost because of the narrower field. And it has smaller exit pupils and worse colour correction than the Cascades. But the steady hold with the extra magnification plus IS when needed is a big win. If only they had a wider field ... and better color correction (ED objective + LaK EP) they'd be perfect! Wait, didn't I just say that about the Cascades!
As I said everything is a compromise
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... then they would be top performers and could come pretty close to alpha bins. Too bad they hadn't. Maybe the 10x42 is another case in respect of FOV. Do Leupold still offer the porro cascades?
Steve
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
The 10x42 are only 5.5 degree FOV.
The Cascades porro seem to be "end of life". Leupold has a cheaper porro (with regular external focus) that replaced them but with it's longer close focus it's not a birding bin.
The Cascades porro seem to be "end of life". Leupold has a cheaper porro (with regular external focus) that replaced them but with it's longer close focus it's not a birding bin.
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
The ED objectives control longitudinal CA (the residual CA you see at the very center of field which has no contribution from the EP ... it actually is across the whole field but you can be sure it's LCA at the center of field).
But you also notice that as you move out from the center CA increases too. That's lateral or transverse CA that adds to the LCA. And it comes from the EP design. And the usual way to deal with this is to add an element of LaK (Lanthanum Crown) glass into the design.
This is what you find in the Top Four (and similar ED contenders) and the Chinese EDs.
I find Cascade eye placement is limited for me by TCA. I think me using glasses makes me more susceptible to it.
So to reduce false color in a bin you need to minimise chromatic aberation in the objective/focuser and the EP. And then you just left with whatever dispersion you have in the prism system.
Hmmm, that latter comment makes me wonder if there a difference in stray color dispersion in the AK and SP roof prisms.
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