Shenandoah Nat'l Park, VA, USA, ground-nesting bird (1 Viewer)

[TheGloria]

Today at around 1 PM local time, I was hiking through Shenandoah National Park and I suddenly heard a few seconds of frantic flapping from about 30 feet into the woods, and not even 5 seconds later, I saw a very young mountain lion start to walk out of the forest across a fallen tree with a bird in its mouth.

I've already spoken to a national expert on Eastern Pumas and confirmed the predator's species. But the missing part of my sighting is, what kind of bird did the cat catch?

The bird was on the ground when the puma caught it, so I'm assuming it's a ground-nesting type (or ground-hanging-out--I'm unsure of the correct nomenclature). When i saw the bird in the cat's mouth, I thought it was a rabbit for a second because it had snow-white feathers underneath and light reddish-brown feathers on top. But then I saw the wing and remembered the flapping a few seconds before.

I assume the bird was not incubating eggs because if it had been, the cat would have eaten the eggs before carrying off the bird, and there wasn't enough time between the flapping and the appearance of the cat for it to have stopped to eat eggs, even quickly. I estimate that the bird was approximately the size of a city pigeon, possibly slightly bigger.

I went through the SNP's list of known bird species in the park (https://www.nps.gov/shen/learn/nature/upload/SHEN_Animals_Birds.pdf) and googled pics of the ones I knew were ground-nesting/hanging out, but no luck. That's why I'm here--hoping someone can help me!

One more clue: the area where this took place was riparian. It was boggy in some places; dense with low vegetation (especially a lot of brambley stuff--ouch!); and close to both a moving (though shallow) creek and a tapped spring (there's a pipe from which you fill your water container). It's an open area with a couple of deadfall trees but there's an about a 60 foot diameter are where there aren't any trees--just ground cover and brambles.

What do you say, bird forum?

 

[Val35]

Maybe some kind of Nightjar/Nighthawk? Both Eastern Whip-Poor-Will and Common Nighthawk are on the Park's species list.

 

[TheGloria]

I don't see an expanse of white on those birds

Maybe some kind of Nightjar/Nighthawk? Both Eastern Whip-Poor-Will and Common Nighthawk are on the Park's species list.

Thank you for the suggestions. However, I looked up pictures of all three and I don't see the large expanse of white feathers that I saw on the bird in the cat's mouth.

I might have to expand my search to non-ground-nesting birds.

 

[Nutcracker]

Most forest birds will come down to drink / bathe / feed, so your options are far wider than ground-nesting species.

Blue Jay, perhaps? Or perhaps a duck of some sort, if next to a stream? Wood Duck has a white belly, and could well be found in that situation.

PS welcome to Birdforum!

 

[ceasar]

It could have been a Ruffed Grouse caught while feeding on the ground. It is large and that would explain the flapping noise.

On another note, I would expect a young Mountain Lion to be fully grown if it was independent enough to be out hunting by itself. A small one would weigh about 110 pounds.

Bob

 

[nartreb]

I agree with Nutcracker - we shouldn't assume it's a ground-nester.

Lots of birds have pale bellies, it's the reddish-brown top that will narrow it down. Nothing really fits well. All the really reddish-brown birds I can think of are too small. No way you'd mistake them for a rabbit unless you were really unsure of the size of the cat.

Thrush, ovenbird, veery, waterthrush - these are all a bit smaller than a robin.
Various wrens - smaller still.

Brown thrasher - about the size of a mockingbird.

Pigeon-sized? Mourning dove.

Bigger? Ruffed grouse.

Much bigger? Canada goose.

Unlikely during the day, but what about an owl?

I'd be remiss if I didn't express some skepticism about the puma sighting. Are you sure it wasn't a bobcat, lynx, or feral domestic cat? If the cat was small, then maybe the bird was smaller than you think.

As far as birds, it would help to describe the vegetation: what species of tree dominates in the area? What kinds of plants were growing in the spot where you think the cat caught the bird?

 

[howiewu]

Not commenting on the bird, but a mountain lion (I assume that's what the OP meant) sighting in the park is highly unusual. For the record, the mountain lion is listed as extinct in Virginia and it is not on the park's official mammal list (https://www.nps.gov/shen/learn/nature/upload/Mammals-Printable-List.pdf). While it's not impossible (there have been unconfirmed sightings in the state and in the Allegenys in Pennsylvania), it would be mega news if confirmed.

To OP: if you do not mind, can you provide more details on the sighting of the predator? Who is your Eastern Pumas expert and was he/she with you at the time of the sighting? If you are confident about this sighting, I would suggest that you report to park authority.

 

[howiewu]

I assume the bird was not incubating eggs because if it had been, the cat would have eaten the eggs before carrying off the bird, and there wasn't enough time between the flapping and the appearance of the cat for it to have stopped to eat eggs, even quickly

I don't think you can make this assumption about animal behavior. Animal behavior can be varied and unpredictable sometimes and do not always follow a fixed pattern.

 

[nartreb]

A puma in Shenandoah is possible, in fact it's rather likely, given what we know about pumas in the east. But none has yet been confirmed within Virginia, and unfortunately when it comes to eye-witness sightings, errors are highly likely.

There are about 135 registered cougar in captivity in the eastern U.S., and presumably many unregistered ones. Escapes are inevitable.

Wild puma can range continental distances. One struck by a car in Connecticut last year was proven to have originated in South Dakota.

A puma was caught on camera in Tennessee this past December.

There have been many unconfirmed puma sightings in and around Shenandoah in recent years.

The entire East is bursting with prey.

It's really just a matter of time until a breeding population returns to the east, if it hasn't already. (Population growth will depend on the success with which cougar avoid cars and other manmade hazards. They've proven quite adept at it in many Western settings.)

But any given sighting is still very likely to be of something else.

 

[howiewu]

A puma in Shenandoah is possible, in fact it's rather likely, given what we know about pumas in the east. But none has yet been confirmed within Virginia, and unfortunately when it comes to eye-witness sightings, errors are highly likely.

There are about 135 registered cougar in captivity in the eastern U.S., and presumably many unregistered ones. Escapes are inevitable.

Wild puma can range continental distances. One struck by a car in Connecticut last year was proven to have originated in South Dakota.

A puma was caught on camera in Tennessee this past December.

There have been many unconfirmed puma sightings in and around Shenandoah in recent years.

The entire East is bursting with prey.

It's really just a matter of time until a breeding population returns to the east, if it hasn't already. (Population growth will depend on the success with which cougar avoid cars and other manmade hazards. They've proven quite adept at it in many Western settings.)

But any given sighting is still very likely to be of something else.

I don't think we are saying anything different. I said that the sighting would be unusual, to say the least, though not impossible.

Back to the OP's question, the confirmation of the predator can also have a consequence to the bird's identity, as we are all well aware, size in the field can be difficult to determine. Whether the cat is a Bobcat or indeed a Mountain Lion, can also suggest the size of the bird.

So it could be:
1) a Mountain Lion caught a Ruffed Grouse, or
2) a Bobcat caught a Bobwhite?
(among other possibilities; just suggesting from a size perspective)

 

[KC Foggin]

Killdeer was my first though upon reading the title of your thread.

 

[nartreb]

Killdeer is a great suggestion for color and size, but does it fit the habitat?

 

[TheGloria]

Re: the mountain lion. I've already spent 40 minutes on the phone with a national expert in Eastern Pumas, and there's no question that this was a mountain lion/puma. Based on several things I saw (round ears, classic facial markings, dark outline on the ears, long tail with a up-curve at the end, distinct black to of tail, and the fact that the animal did not display any alarm when it realized I was standing there but rather calmly did a 180 on the dead log it was walking on and walk--not run--away), John Lutz of the Eastern Puma Research Network determined that I saw a young (approx. 4-5 months old) cub who was old enough to hunt on his own but still too young to realize that being only 25 feet from a hiker was a panic-worthy event.

I did report it to a park ranger within 2 hours of the sighting. I'm going to meet with John Lutz to show him he exact spot this week even though it's a 3-hour drive from my house--it's an important sighting. We'll look for tracks and scat in a wider area than I was able to survey in shorts and not enough bug spray

Back to the bird...
Yes, it was hard to gauge the size of the animal in the puma's mouth at first because I was absolutely gobsmacked about what I was seeing, and expected a movie director to yell "Cut" at any second and call the animal trainer to come get the puma. But the main reason I at first mistook the prey for a guinea if or rabbit was the expanse of pure white and the rich reddish-brown colors on the prey. It wasn't big enough to be a duck IMO. In retrospect, it could have been a smaller bird than pigeon-sized if the majority of the bird was outside his mouth--like if he had it by the head and neck.

Immediate environment: semi-boggy area, semi-clearing. Many brambly pants that looked like berry plants, but the leaves were bigger than raspberries or blackberries and there weren't any canes from past years. I have pics of the area--let me see if I can post them.

I've looked up pics of almost all the birds guessed by the first few repliers and I'll look at the rest shortly. Not a blue jay for sure--that's the first bird I learned to identify as a kid growing up in NYC because they were in the trees outside our apartment window. (Naturally, the second bird I learned to identify was a pigeon.)

Yes, I should not make assumptions about the presence or absence of eggs, especially since this was a young/inexperienced hunter. I tried to find a nest on the ground, but the vegetation defeated me.

Time of day was 12:45 East Coast time. Weather mostly clear, sunny, humid and hot, and windy at the tops of the ridges. The wind noise is almost certainly why the puma didn't know I was there--that and the fact that I had been standing still on the trail listening for what I thought might be wild turkeys.

Picture posting advice welcome. Thanks to all who replied! It's great to get so many thoughtful responses.

 

[TheGloria]

We might have a winner

Killdeer is a great suggestion for color and size, but does it fit the habitat?

We have killdeers nesting in our gravel drive every year but they're not as reddish-brown as what I saw. However, I googled images and found many that looked like the color I saw, and there is enough white on them to make this a very very good possibility, appearance-wise. But environment-wise, I'm not sure.

I need to do some chores but will be back soon. TYVM to all!!

 

[Nutcracker]

Killdeer wouldn't be on thickly vegetated ground in a forested valley; possible that Spotted Sandpiper might be there next to a stream, but it's maybe a bit small?

Wood Duck is small as ducks go, so I'd not rule it out just for being a duck; I'd guess it's also the commonest duck in that habitat.

 

[KC Foggin]

Killdeer wouldn't be on thickly vegetated ground in a forested valley; possible that Spotted Sandpiper might be there next to a stream, but it's maybe a bit small?

Oh I disagree with you there. I always see Killdeer in the thickly vegetated woods I go birding in.

 

[Birdbrain22]

First thing I thought of was Northern Bobwhite.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Any Woodcock there?

Andy

 

[ceasar]

Any Woodcock there?

Andy

They are throughout the Appalachian Mountains.

Secretive but common enough to be hunted in the Fall. A friend of mine used to take his mother's lap dog, a small Cocker Spaniel, with him when he hunted for them and he was quite successful.

Bob

 

[Nutcracker]

Any Woodcock there?

Andy

Orange, not white, underneath, though - "does not fit the description".