Simple question... (4 Viewers)

[Uhu74]

The SF is supposed to be the new standard of optics in a birding binocular but to a lot of people the SV is still preferred. It makes a difference to me because if EVERYBODY said the SF's optics just blew the SV away I would have already bought one because I love great optics. Seriously I don't care how much they cost.

Maybe it's just me, but if I read the quote above, I get the idea you would buy a bino of which OTHER people say it it's the best?:eat: I would buy the bino which suits ME best, and I wouldn't give a rats @ss what other people think of it. After all, I'm the one who will be using it.

Regarding the little M7, when you take the "value for money" factor into account, IMO the M7 might be the winner here.
Can I expect a bin which is >6x cheaper to be just as good as the alphas? No. Ofcourse not.
Can I expect a bin which is >6x more expensive, also to be >6x better? Don't think so.
Fact is, when people want the very best, they have to fork out some serious coin for it.

But to be honest, when I had an M7 to test, I had a great birding day with it, and not for one moment I've had the idea that I was missing something. The M7 just delivered:t:

Why did I buy a 32SV then? Because I liked the SV even more, was looking for the very best, and I didn't mind paying the extra €€€ for it. But I'm not everybody.
Downside to all of this, when you actually think you've bought the very best, little quirks can be way more annoying because you simply don't accept them when you've paid so much money.

With cheaper bins, the expectations will likely also be a bit lower, and some shortcomings are accepted.

 

[perterra]

4 votes for beating the drum! :smoke:

HN

Make it 5 for beating the drum.

I still remember a post where (and I paraphrase) Dennis said carrying the SV put spring in his step and made his chest fill with pride when in a group of people.

 

[OPTIC_NUT]

Make it 5 for beating the drum.

I still remember a post where (and I paraphrase) Dennis said carrying the SV put spring in his step and made his chest fill with pride when in a group of people.

Aye, there's the rub. That "factor" is missing from all the ratings systems.
Money well spent, if pride is in short supply inside. I just watch critters, no parades.

 

[jgraider]

Make it 5 for beating the drum.

I still remember a post where (and I paraphrase) Dennis said carrying the SV put spring in his step and made his chest fill with pride when in a group of people.

I wouldn't be at all surprised.

 

[Binastro]

I shouldn't encourage him I know, but....

Like the beat beat beat of the tom-tom
When the jungle shadows fall
Like the tick tick tock of the stately clock
As it stands against the wall
Like the drip drip drip of the raindrops
When the summer shower is through
So a voice within me keeps repeating you, you, you
Night and day, you are the one
Only you beneath the moon or under the sun
Whether near to me, or far.

Etc etc.

Acknowledging and apologies to Tony Bennett, and apologies to everybody here.

 

[[email protected]]

Maybe it's just me, but if I read the quote above, I get the idea you would buy a bino of which OTHER people say it it's the best?:eat: I would buy the bino which suits ME best, and I wouldn't give a rats @ss what other people think of it. After all, I'm the one who will be using it.

Regarding the little M7, when you take the "value for money" factor into account, IMO the M7 might be the winner here.
Can I expect a bin which is >6x cheaper to be just as good as the alphas? No. Ofcourse not.
Can I expect a bin which is >6x more expensive, also to be >6x better? Don't think so.
Fact is, when people want the very best, they have to fork out some serious coin for it.

But to be honest, when I had an M7 to test, I had a great birding day with it, and not for one moment I've had the idea that I was missing something. The M7 just delivered:t:

Why did I buy a 32SV then? Because I liked the SV even more, was looking for the very best, and I didn't mind paying the extra €€€ for it. But I'm not everybody.
Downside to all of this, when you actually think you've bought the very best, little quirks can be way more annoying because you simply don't accept them when you've paid so much money.

With cheaper bins, the expectations will likely also be a bit lower, and some shortcomings are accepted.

I agree with everything you said but I had problems with the glare on the M7. Outside of that it was a good binocular. I think if you put some shades on it or it had deeper inset objectives it would be vastly better. I think for about the same amount of money the Nikon EII 8x30 is better optically and controls glare better but it is not waterproof so for some people if the glare doesn't bother you the M7 is a good buy.

 

[Robert Wallace]

When my wife decided that the Nikon 8x32 HGs were too heavy for her after major surgery on her spinal chord about ten years ago, I stated to use them in preference to my Zeiss 7x42 Dialyts. I quickly came to the conclusion that 8x32s were always a good choice. I have just replaced them with a pair of Swarvoski EL 8x32s because I didn't have the patience to wait to see what the Zeiss 8x32 SF will be like. I am delighted with my choice lightweight (important at my age), good FOV and excellent image. what more do I need?

 

[John Dracon]

Gentlemen - May I suggest on BF that we adopt a philosophy regarding individuals and their opinions which may or may not align with ours. Two quotes from the past may give us civil direction. Twain said, "it is a difference in opinion which makes a horse race." And some ancient Latin speaker uttered, "De gus.ti.bus non est dis.pu.tan.dum" which in English means there is no disputing about tastes. Facts are worth disputing about, not opinions which may shift like an American politician's core values.
John

 

[Maljunulo]

Gentlemen - May I suggest on BF that we adopt a philosophy regarding individuals and their opinions which may or may not align with ours. Two quotes from the past may give us civil direction. Twain said, "it is a difference in opinion which makes a horse race." And some ancient Latin speaker uttered, "De gus.ti.bus non est dis.pu.tan.dum" which in English means there is no disputing about tastes. Facts are worth disputing about, not opinions which may shift like an American politician's core values.
John

So what, exactly, is your point?

Some of us are dumb, and need it spelled out in simple, declarative sentences, in grammatical English.

 

[Hermann]

So what, exactly, is your point?

Some of us are dumb, and need it spelled out in simple, declarative sentences, in grammatical English.

Well, I think John's post made perfect sense.

Maybe I'm not dumb ... :king:

Hermann

 

[John Dracon]

Maljunulo - No, you and others are not dumb. Far from it. I believe, however, that you missed my point, which was no more than simply appealing to posters that this thread was edging towards incivility. Debating opinions really comes down to tastes, and that is an endless circle.

Example: Which person playing the violin has the superior talent, the fiddler on the Grand Old Opry or the world renown violin player, Jascha Heifetz? Which music is superior, music composed by the Beatles or by Beethoven?

As a lad at Buffalo high, the fiddler, two guitars and a banjo was my musical sound. Later I added other sounds.

Opinions may be based on experience which creates taste and nothing else. And taste is an individual preference. Hence, there is no point in debating whether Denco's opinions match yours or others. Or his, yours
That is my point.

John

 

[Maljunulo]

Maljunulo - No, you and others are not dumb. Far from it. I believe, however, that you missed my point, which was no more than simply appealing to posters that this thread was edging towards incivility. Debating opinions really comes down to tastes, and that is an endless circle.

Example: Which person playing the violin has the superior talent, the fiddler on the Grand Old Opry or the world renown violin player, Jascha Heifetz? Which music is superior, music composed by the Beatles or by Beethoven?

As a lad at Buffalo high, the fiddler, two guitars and a banjo was my musical sound. Later I added other sounds.

Opinions may be based on experience which creates taste and nothing else. And taste is an individual preference. Hence, there is no point in debating whether Denco's opinions match yours or others. Or his, yours
That is my point.

John

Thank you, John, for the expansion.

I, at one point, almost asked who was going to bring the popcorn, but thought better of it.

Cheers!
Richard

 

[HighNorth]

True, but some posters want to make their opinion a matter of contest, or to drown out or disparage the opinions of others. That's not good either.

HN

 

[perterra]

True, but some posters want to make their opinion a matter of contest, or to drown out or disparage the opinions of others. That's not good either.

HN

This :t:

 

[BruceH]

John .... I understand your well stated point. If the issue were just about a difference in honest opinion, then I would agree.

Some comments deserve a response and yes, the response should keep some level of civility in mind.

 

[OPTIC_NUT]

Everyone is entitled to their own standards and opinions.

When it looks, especially to newcomers and advice-seekers, like
everyone else should also believe that binoculars costing less than $2000 are just like trash wine,
it spoils the birdwatching sport, the optics market, and this forum's public credibility.

And it is within others' rights to try to clean the image up, as it were.

----truth out

 

[Robert Wallace]

Gentlemen - May I suggest on BF that we adopt a philosophy regarding individuals and their opinions which may or may not align with ours. Two quotes from the past may give us civil direction. Twain said, "it is a difference in opinion which makes a horse race." And some ancient Latin speaker uttered, "De gus.ti.bus non est dis.pu.tan.dum" which in English means there is no disputing about tastes. Facts are worth disputing about, not opinions which may shift like an American politician's core values.
John

We need to be careful about the value of opinion. I agree with you about individual opinion (or soft data, facts are sometimes called hard data).
However when a significant number of individuals hold the same opinion, for example by saying x% of people interviewed say z is best, this is hard data and by be taken more seriously. Marketing takes opinion very seriously, hence opinion polls.
Opinion is not always right in the days of video recording Betamax was more highly regarded than VHS but in Europe VHS won hands down.
I subscribe to Gramophone Magazine (available in the USA) and take the opinion of certain critics very seriously.
May I also respectfully remind you that there are women contributors to Bird Forum, although perhaps not on this thread.

 

[[email protected]]

We need to be careful about the value of opinion. I agree with you about individual opinion (or soft data, facts are sometimes called hard data).
However when a significant number of individuals hold the same opinion, for example by saying x% of people interviewed say z is best, this is hard data and by be taken more seriously. Marketing takes opinion very seriously, hence opinion polls.
Opinion is not always right in the days of video recording Betamax was more highly regarded than VHS but in Europe VHS won hands down.
I subscribe to Gramophone Magazine (available in the USA) and take the opinion of certain critics very seriously.
May I also respectfully remind you that there are women contributors to Bird Forum, although perhaps not on this thread.

"However when a significant number of individuals hold the same opinion, for example by saying x% of people interviewed say z is best, this is hard data and by be taken more seriously. Marketing takes opinion very seriously, hence opinion polls."

That is my point. All I am saying when 7 people say they would choose the SV 8x32 as their binocular of choice if they could only have one you should take notice. It still may NOT be the binocular for you but I would still certainly try one based on all those opinions. Also, when a large % of people who have compared the Swarovski SV and The Zeiss SF say they prefer the Swarovski's optics you should at least compare them before buying the SF.

 

[paddy7]

"However when a significant number of individuals hold the same opinion, for example by saying x% of people interviewed say z is best, this is hard data and by be taken more seriously. Marketing takes opinion very seriously, hence opinion polls."

That is my point. All I am saying when 7 people say they would choose the SV 8x32 as their binocular of choice if they could only have one you should take notice. It still may NOT be the binocular for you but I would still certainly try one based on all those opinions. Also, when a large % of people who have compared the Swarovski SV and The Zeiss SF say they prefer the Swarovski's optics you should at least compare them before buying the SF.

So soft data becomes hard data when there's enough of it?

 

[Binastro]

'' There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."!