Todays Quality (3 Viewers)

[gunut]

yea they all claim their alphas are made in the mother land....so did my favorite German company [Minox]....but I guess Germany has many different kinds of and % of "MADE IN GERMANY"....and you have to watch your step or have friends higher up.

 

[jan van daalen]

yea they all claim their alphas are made in the mother land....so did my favorite German company [Minox]....but I guess Germany has many different kinds of and % of "MADE IN GERMANY"....and you have to watch your step or have friends higher up.

Hi Gunny,

That last sentence is to vague for me to comprehend but regarding Zeiss not manufacturing in Germany is bullocks.
Zeiss has three manufacturing facillities where they drill/polish/coat/assemble: Wetzlar, Oberkochen and Hungary. All three modern.
The drilling/coating/polishing part in Wetzlar is closing down and now all assembly of the optics will take place in Wetzlar.
The Victory HT, SF, Harpia and Range assembly is 100% Germany.
The Conquest is made in Japan but partly assembled in Germany while the optical design is from Zeiss.
The Terra is from Chinese/Japanese origine 100% while the optical design is from Zeiss.

Minox is a different company which, however originated in Germany, can't be compared/connected to Zeiss in any way.

Jan

 

[gunut]

Doesn't Minox use Schott glass in all their binoculars....and isn't Schott a subsidiary of Zeiss??? ....and at least on their HG and BL models claim they are made in Germany....Now they are nowhere near the size of Zeiss [ which is #2 on my list of favorites since Leica build quality and service have taken a major nose dives]....but they do tend to produce a closely completive product for substantially less than high end Zeiss....

 

[jan van daalen]

Doesn't Minox use Schott glass in all their binoculars....and isn't Schott a subsidiary of Zeiss??? ....and at least on their HG and BL models claim they are made in Germany....Now they are nowhere near the size of Zeiss [ which is #2 on my list of favorites since Leica build quality and service have taken a major nose dives]....but they do tend to produce a closely completive product for substantially less than high end Zeiss....

Gunny,

One thing does not lead to another thing.

Schott is not a subsidiary of Zeiss in the meaning that when Minox buys Schott glass they buy Zeiss quality.
Schott takes part in the umbrella enterprise called Zeiss, but is in that enterprise completely independend, like Zeiss is also in that enterprise.
Zeiss buys optical glass from Hoya, O'Hara, Schott etc. when ever they want. The same as Schott sells optical glass to Swarovski, Kamakura etc. and those companies buy optical glass also from other glass sources.
It is just a matter who has what kind of glass type for what price.

That Minox refers to use Schott glass in their optics is marketing blabla. It could be that one eye lens of the ocular is Schott originated and the rest is Chin bin glass. It says nothing and has no relation to Zeiss what so ever.

Minox is originally a German based company. No longer!!
Minox Germany is nothing more that a marketing slogan based on the emotion that Minox Germany in the first and partly second half of the 20th Century was labelled as an A-brand.
The current models are 100% originated and built Far East by OEM's. There is no Minox production facility AFAIK. Some models are very partly assembled in a building in Germany, owned or rented by Minox and therefore by Law "Made in Germany".

The same can be said about the Conquest, but at least that model is an 100% optical design from Zeiss. No way you can say that about Minox.

Jan

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis,

Why on earth are you talking this kind of BS?.

Jan

Jan

If you read the thread you will see I just copied what Fazalmajid said. It is clearly in quotes. I didn't say Zeiss are not made in Germany anymore. Be careful with your criticism. How do we know all your information is not BS? Do you work for Zeiss?

 

[WJC]

Gunny,

One thing does not lead to another thing.

Schott is not a subsidiary of Zeiss in the meaning that when Minox buys Schott glass they buy Zeiss quality.
Schott takes part in the umbrella enterprise called Zeiss, but is in that enterprise completely independend, like Zeiss is also in that enterprise.
Zeiss buys optical glass from Hoya, O'Hara, Schott etc. when ever they want. The same as Schott sells optical glass to Swarovski, Kamakura etc. and those companies buy optical glass also from other glass sources.
It is just a matter who has what kind of glass type for what price.

That Minox refers to use Schott glass in their optics is marketing blabla. It could be that one eye lens of the ocular is Schott originated and the rest is Chin bin glass. It says nothing and has no relation to Zeiss what so ever.

Minox is originally a German based company. No longer!!
Minox Germany is nothing more that a marketing slogan based on the emotion that Minox Germany in the first and partly second half of the 20th Century was labelled as an A-brand.
The current models are 100% originated and built Far East by OEM's. There is no Minox production facility AFAIK. Some models are very partly assembled in a building in Germany, owned or rented by Minox and therefore by Law "Made in Germany".

The same can be said about the Conquest, but at least that model is an 100% optical design from Zeiss. No way you can say that about Minox.

Jan

Gunny:

See below.

Bill

 

[Loud Green Man]

I know I’m going to be shot-down for the following by the BF “Big Guns” from across the pond but hell if it smacks of Trumpism-like belligerence, that dares to direct us to a path less trodden, I aint apologising as guess who’s to blame!

Do you ever wonder how we ever managed to a;- decide upon a binocular purchase and b;- remain content with it for longer than it now takes to read a damming ‘opinion’ of said product’s construction and/or parentage, prior to the arrival of the Internet?

I’m 59 and I do not recall a goldfinch as spied on the banks of the River Cray looking any less stunning as viewed through a pair of Japanese bins purchased with Green Sheild Stamps (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Shield_Stamps) in 1971 than when I last studied one with Zeiss glass.

My point therefore is are we any happier/fulfilled as a result of our knowledge that in 2018 a set of bins costing c$2,500.00 will not be considered awesome by everyone? Assuming they’ve not been dropped prior to delivery.

LGM

 

[jan van daalen]

Jan

If you read the thread you will see I just copied what Fazalmajid said. I didn't say Zeiss are not made in Germany anymore. Be careful with your criticism.

http://www.birdforum.net/images/smilies/awink.gif
Dennis,

You wrote...."Maybe that is why we are seeing a decline of quality" and that is completely BS (IMHO) .

The choice of the word "maybe" implies you can go both ways based on a post you are refurring to, which post is incorrect by the way.

There is no decline of quality. There is more transparancy because of Forums (or is it Fora:king like this one where people can share their experiences.
That's why it could look for some of us like it is, but if you go from 1000 units in the 60s to 10.000 in 2018 the return will climb equally. This is something completly different than your insinuated "decline of quality".

Jan

 

[jan van daalen]

Jan

If you read the thread you will see I just copied what Fazalmajid said. It is clearly in quotes. I didn't say Zeiss are not made in Germany anymore. Be careful with your criticism. How do we know all your information is not BS? Do you work for Zeiss?

Dennis,

I see you have edited your post and I rest my case8-P

Jan

 

[[email protected]]

http://www.birdforum.net/images/smilies/awink.gif
Dennis,

You wrote...."Maybe that is why we are seeing a decline of quality" and that is completely BS (IMHO) .

The choice of the word "maybe" implies you can go both ways based on a post you are refurring to, which post is incorrect by the way.

There is no decline of quality. There is more transparancy because of Forums (or is it Fora:king like this one where people can share their experiences.
That's why it could look for some of us like it is, but if you go from 1000 units in the 60s to 10.000 in 2018 the return will climb equally. This is something completly different than your insinuated "decline of quality".

Jan

"There is no decline of quality." No you are talking BS. Sorry, but I have had a lot of Zeiss binoculars over the years and I personally have noticed a decline in Zeiss quality. That is what makes me question if they are even made in Germany. A country known for high quality products. What made this readily apparent was the Zeiss 8x25 Victory I just returned. I was very disappointed in the quality of it. In fact it looked like a $200.00 binocular instead of an $800.00 binocular. Very poor finish, cheap eye cups, machining was poor and even the case was sewed crooked. I had the Zeiss Victory 8x20 a few years ago and it was a much higher quality instrument befitting the Zeiss name. You can't tell me we don't get more complaints about Zeiss products lately than any other brand of binoculars especially alpha's. Doesn't that tell you something? It to me is a clear indicator Zeiss quality has suffered in the last year or two. Two totally defective Zeiss 8x42 SF's is not excusable like dries1 experienced and there has been many other problems even with Zeiss's best binoculars. I didn't edit my post either.

 

[jan van daalen]

"There is no decline of quality." No you are talking BS. Sorry, but I have had a lot of Zeiss binoculars over the years and I personally have noticed a decline in Zeiss quality. That is what makes me question if they are even made in Germany. A country known for high quality products. What made this readily apparent was the Zeiss 8x25 Victory I just returned. I was very disappointed in the quality of it. In fact it looked like a $200.00 binocular instead of an $800.00 binocular. Very poor finish, cheap eye cups, machining was poor and even the case was sewed crooked. I had the Zeiss Victory 8x20 a few years ago and it was a much higher quality instrument befitting the Zeiss name. You can't tell me we don't get more complaints about Zeiss products lately than any other brand of binoculars especially alpha's. Doesn't that tell you something? It to me is a clear indicator Zeiss quality has suffered in the last year or two. Two totally defective Zeiss 8x42 SF's is not excusable like dries1 experienced and there has been many other problems even with Zeiss's best binoculars. I didn't edit my post either.

Dennis, please don't make a fool of yourself.

Your post 45 is from 20.45 and edited by you at 21.08 hours.
Don't say you didn't edit your post.

Stating that the old Victory pocket is superior to the new one is completely for your account.
Blaming Zeiss for the two defective SF's of Dries1 is questionable and taken into doubt by others.

Jan

PS

This year my company excists 25 years and I have sold tens of thousends of bins in that period and no, I don't work for ZeissB

 

[Stephen Prower]

We have all heard the stories of amazon deliveries being chucked over the fence left outside in the rain etc etc.

Paul

They are not stories. Hermes dropped a packet onto concrete over my 6 foot high garden gate. In response I made up a mattress of bits of foam packing and soft garden rubbish under the gate. I think I received another packet from Hermes over the gate after that.

I don't report the drivers. As Troubador said, it's the gradgrind bosses who impose impossibly demanding schedules who are at fault.


Stephen

 

[Kevin Conville]

Without chiming in as to whether the quality (generally) has declined or improved these days vs yesteryear, I think blaming any mechanical issues of a new binocular on the shipping company is a little ridiculous.

The bins I have ordered reside in their padded case, in a box, surrounded with packing material, in a cardboard box.

I think a bin would have to be amazingly fragile not to withstand a 6' drop packed like that. Unless the box arrives crushed, I don't think shipping damage is probable.

 

[Steve C]

I have heard it said that a wise man who digs himself into a hole will set aside the shovel and quit digging. The foolish man sharpens his shovel and digs faster.

Personally i think Jan is correct.

 

[james holdsworth]

Dennis is just back on the alpha bandwagon again and [since his purchase wasn't Zeiss] will now go to great and extensive lengths to denigrate them.....wash / rinse / repeat.

Dennis loves anecdotal..........and anecdotally we have leaky Leica's, crap focusser Swaro's and dodgy SF's....anecdotally.

Of course, we are dealing with Dennis, that dumped any and all Swaro's as he just couldn't find one with a good focus, disparaged them for a year as being a waste of money, then bought a new CL ....wash / rinse / repeat.

 

[WJC]

I have heard it said that a wise man who digs himself into a hole will set aside the shovel and quit digging. The foolish man sharpens his shovel and digs faster.

Silly Oregonian, don't you know some folks use a backhoe? :cat:

Bill

 

[[email protected]]

"Dennis is just back on the alpha bandwagon again and [since his purchase wasn't Zeiss] will now go to great and extensive lengths to denigrate them.....wash / rinse / repeat."

No, you missed the point. My purchase was a Zeiss. I purchased a new Zeiss Victory 8x25 and I was not impressed with the quality of it. If the Victory had been high quality I would have praised it. I have no brand loyalty nor do I sell or promote any binocular brand. I criticized Swarovski for sticky focusers. After having the older Zeiss Victory 8x20 and comparing it to the newer model I feel Zeiss products for some reason are suffering from a lack of QC. This thread just supports my feelings. I am not knocking Zeiss because I have another brand. I have had many Zeiss in the past and they have been excellent binoculars. When you purchase two of Zeiss's best binoculars and they are both defective I don't care what you say there is something wrong. A $2500.00 binocular should be inspected thoroughly before leaving the factory and IMO it should be perfect. I had many Zeiss FL's and I liked them a lot and they were high quality and I had no problems with them.

 

[dries1]

Zeiss

In regard to the SF, it no doubt is a great design by Zeiss and a recent one if I am correct. To save weight composites were used and it will be used by many more folks who may not use or purchase a great glass if it is too heavy. When I hand them my HgLX 10X42 they cringe with their mouth wide open, (almost 1000 grams) it is too heavy for many of the birding/nature viewing folk. Many SFs will be sold because of the view,light weight, and the weight distribution.

I have moved on regarding what happened to both binos I ordered, If I can see a good SF behind the counter I will try it and If I can get one that I can use prior to purchase I most likely will buy it, but not this year. Why, I will wait until any residual bugs are worked out over time, and I have many great binos to enjoy the view.

My father Willem bought the glass below next to the SF, and many waited until it had been out on the market for a while. It turned to be an OK glass, less than the Nobelem Special 8X50 (not many made and pricey) and lighter and easier than the Zeiss Oberkochen 8X50.

Time will tell, in the mean time I am enjoying the view through my other glass.

The pic was the first SF, prior to being be fuddled by the shiny white ring at the edge of my view. It just took away the great view.

A.W.

 

[Troubador]

In regard to the SF, it no doubt is a great design by Zeiss and a recent one if I am correct. To save weight composites were used and it will be used by many more folks who may not use or purchase a great glass if it is too heavy.

A.W.

A minor point but the SF has a magnesium body. It was FL that didn't have a metal body. And SF feels light because of the weight distribution and while it is lighter than a Swaro EL, it isn't that much lighter.

Lee

 

[Neil G.]

I know I’m going to be shot-down for the following by the BF “Big Guns” from across the pond but hell if it smacks of Trumpism-like belligerence, that dares to direct us to a path less trodden, I aint apologising as guess who’s to blame!

Do you ever wonder how we ever managed to a;- decide upon a binocular purchase and b;- remain content with it for longer than it now takes to read a damming ‘opinion’ of said product’s construction and/or parentage, prior to the arrival of the Internet?

I’m 59 and I do not recall a goldfinch as spied on the banks of the River Cray looking any less stunning as viewed through a pair of Japanese bins purchased with Greensheild Stamps in 1971 than when I last studied one with Zeiss glass.

My point therefore is are we any happier/fulfilled as a result of our knowledge that in 2018 a set of bins costing c$2,500.00 will not be considered awesome by everyone? Assuming they’ve not been dropped prior to delivery.

LGM

Lol......good point.
I've owned zeiss binos and used leica and swarovski ones too.I use a pair of steiner wildlife pro now because the image is fantastic and i get just as much enjoyment viewing the birds through these as i did viewing them through my zeiss optics.
It's the same with cameras,people seem to enjoy the tech more than they enjoy the subject and will never be happy until they have a pair of binos/camera that is fully recognised as the best.