Zeiss Victory 8x25 vs. Nikon Monarch 7 8x30? (1 Viewer)

[Dr. K]

My dad uses a Monarch 7 (both 8x30 and 10x30) for hikes and canoe trips. I was less impressed when I tried them but he really prioritizes weight almost above all else so they beat out most 8x32 bins.

I’ve read good things about the Victory 8x25 and I got to wondering if they are better optically than the Monarchs but just as usable (more so?) and lighter weight.

I’d love any insights from anyone who’s tried them both. If the Zeiss are remarkably better they would make a great gift. Thanks I’m advance for any comments.

 

[dries1]

Optically the Zeiss wins, however I would take the Nikon on the canoe trip.

 

[Super Dave]

The Swaro 8x25 replaced my really nice 8x30 binos. I did have the Zeiss 8x25 but liked the Swaro's better. I'm in the minority on that. I'd say go for whichever 8x25 model you prefer.
The canoe question depends how stable and confident you are in the canoe.

 

[eronald]

Optically the Zeiss wins, however I would take the Nikon on the canoe trip.

I own a Victory Pocket 8x25. The optics are superb for the size of its lenses, but is an expensive fragile object in the end. A Monarch with its larger objective will give a decent view for less money, and be much tougher in use.

I was at a binocular shop yesterday and they had a Nikon Aculon, small binocular - it looked decently tough the view was better than I expected, and at $70 or so and it is so cheap that you afford to take it on a rough trip and can donate it if you don't like it. Frankly, with all the bother I had with trying to get a broken Zeiss binocular repaired, I now wish I had just got a cheap throwaway to solve my pocket binocular problem.

The big armored binoculars which the bird crowd use and also the Monarchs can mostly handle anything that gets thrown at them because they're oversized and toughened - basically the optical equivalent of SUVs,



Edmund

 

[dorubird]

I now have a Zeiss 8x25 but I used a friend's Nikon M7 8x30 and compared it to my Nikon HGL 8x32 at that time. Then I wrote down the results in a score table. I write all the results in a common score table for about 5 years. I have 60 binoculars with different formats in this table with many optical and mechanical categories. For example: for resolution test I use a resolution target with lines at a distance of 10m, in the same light and same position for all the binoculars tested in the table. For glare resistance use Sun, Moon, a same desk lamp, and same street light lamp. For brightness I compare the binoculars in different light conditions (same target in day shadows, same target in dusk shadows, same target in night shadows, stars). I can use these results to make a pretty accurate personal impression, always having multiple "benchmark" binoculars at my disposal to compare ... here are the conclusions from the point of view of optics:
Center resolution: Zeiss has an advantage
Edge resolution: Zeiss has a big advantage
Field of view: Nikon has a big advantage (8.3 vs 7.4)
General contrast: Nikon has an advantage
White rendering: Nikon has slightly more natural colors
Chromatic aberrations: Zeiss has an advantage
Resistance to flare, glare, etc. : Zeiss has an advantage
Distortion: Zeiss has an advantage
Brightness: equality ? here I should have them in front of me to be even more accurate. But I think they are almost equal... Zeiss compensating with a much better light transmission (more than 6% compared to Nikon 7M 8x30), and Nikon compensating with 5mm more at aperture than Zeiss.

My preference: Zeisssssss , but even with the Nikon M7 8x30 I would be happy

 

[Dr. K]

These are great notes, thank you all very much.

One question I have been thinking about, and regret not mentioning earlier, is about ease of use and eye placement. I thought the monarch 7 was a little finicky about eye placement, punishing me with blackouts if I didn’t nail it. I’ve assumed that all pockets are similar in that way. Any comments on eye placement, and also how well each handless (ie focus and grip)?

Also, to clarify, my dad doesn’t so much use the binoculars in the boat, though occasionally he does, more on little hikes and at camp. The lightness is about minimizing all weight in his pack.

Thanks again.

 

[Troubador]

These are great notes, thank you all very much.

One question I have been thinking about, and regret not mentioning earlier, is about ease of use and eye placement. I thought the monarch 7 was a little finicky about eye placement, punishing me with blackouts if I didn’t nail it. I’ve assumed that all pockets are similar in that way. Any comments on eye placement, and also how well each handless (ie focus and grip)?

Also, to clarify, my dad doesn’t so much use the binoculars in the boat, though occasionally he does, more on little hikes and at camp. The lightness is about minimizing all weight in his pack.

Thanks again.

One aspect of pocket binos that can at first be annoying to users who don't use spectacles is the small diameter of the eyecups. It is very easy to push these into your eye sockets thus moving your eyes too close to the binos and so encountering blackouts. It does need a little patience to learn how to place the upper curve of the eyecups in the right place under your eyebrows so that your eyes are in the correct position. If you wear spectacles this kind of issue does not arise but as with any bino you may have to experiment a little with the position of the eyecup and/or the location of your spectacles on your nose to optimise the position of the binos.

Lee

 

[eronald]

When my dealer replaced my binocular due to damage, I asked him which product was toughest. He told me that of all the binoculars he sells the Monarchs are those which come back least for service because of mechanical damage.

I own a Zeiss and I would avoid taking it into any rough situation.



Edmund

 

[Dr. K]

interesting insights, thank you.

 

[mbb]

Having compared the Victory 8x25 and the Kite Lynx HD 8x30 (which according to many is very similar to the M7), for a canoe trip I would take the Kite (but with one single reservation, see below(*)): it’s just a more user friendly format, easy to grab and hold stable, wider exit pupil and, at least for the Kite (not the Nikon), the assurance of great service if something would happen to them.
For a hike, it would depend on the difficulty of the hike, probably pushing towards the 8x25 for weight/compactness if e.g. on long or challenging hike in the mountains or for several days carrying all gear where the hike is the key activity and birdwatching rather something that might occur occasionally.
Of course, if he really values weight above everything and wants even less weight, the 8x25 is indeed lighter, the new (expensive but impressive) Swarovski 7x21 even more so...
Also, if wearing gloves (?) the small Zeiss with the small focus wheel might loose a bit on ergonomics.
Optically, the main disadvantage of the Kite for me (and based on posts on this forum also of the Nikon) is the reflections/glare/… depending on the light conditions. (*) I could imagine it being an issue when using them from a canoe on the water, but I seem to be sensitive to that. Other than that, they are really good binoculars.

The relatively higher optical quality of the Zeiss make them tremendous 8x25’s, but the Kite (and thus I suppose also the Nikon) are very good 8x30’s…
Therefor I think the ergonomics will really be key in the decision, thus requiring your dad to try first because that is very personal, which might be a challenge to arrange for if the aim is a surprise. ;-) (But if possible, that might avoid the annoying situation of such a beautiful, expensive and well meant gift not to be used as planned or for him not to dare saying so…)

 

[Howard220]

I own both and use both. (I bought my M7 new in 2015.) Understand that the Zeiss is almost double the price of the new M7's. I bought the Zeiss for its take anywhere pocket-ability and great optics. In every aspect I find the Zeiss optically superior (including really crisp contrast). Despite the M7's lack of edge sharpness compared to the Zeiss and the M7's extra weight, I much prefer the ergonomics of the M7. They, with their larger objectives, are simply easier to use. (I was warned about 8x25's. And, I may be one of the minority who can bring the 8x30 M7's up to my eyes and Bingo! I've got a good view. No muss, no fuss whether I'm wearing eyeglasses or contacts.)

 

[Dr. K]

thanks, everyone, for the helpful feedback. I have decided against the zeiss pocket for my dad. I appreciate the insights, I suspect you've helped me avert a miss!

 

[Rg548]

I'm a big fan of the Swarovski 8x25 over the Zeiss 8x25. It feels a better instrument to me, with superb optics and first class build including waterproof design!
I personally don't think the single hinge design works on pocket binos.
I used to have the Leica 8x20, first the trinovid, then, ultravid. I think I actually preferred the Trinovids, and they really are exceptional value for money, if you can make do with the small size. Great for trips though.

 

[etudiant]

I'm a big fan of the Swarovski 8x25 over the Zeiss 8x25. It feels a better instrument to me, with superb optics and first class build including waterproof design!
I personally don't think the single hinge design works on pocket binos.
I used to have the Leica 8x20, first the trinovid, then, ultravid. I think I actually preferred the Trinovids, and they really are exceptional value for money, if you can make do with the small size. Great for trips though.

It may be worth while for the OP to also consider the new Nikon 10x25 IS binocular. It is optically very good, nicely compact and the IS allows it to perform way better than expected.
It has its quirks and is not waterproof, plus Nikon's marketing team has chosen to not yet offer it here in the US, ( had to buy mine from Japan via Tenso) but I've found it to be an excellent compact glass, much more effective for me than my Leica 8x20 Ultravid.

 

[[email protected]]

It may be worth while for the OP to also consider the new Nikon 10x25 IS binocular. It is optically very good, nicely compact and the IS allows it to perform way better than expected.
It has its quirks and is not waterproof, plus Nikon's marketing team has chosen to not yet offer it here in the US, ( had to buy mine from Japan via Tenso) but I've found it to be an excellent compact glass, much more effective for me than my Leica 8x20 Ultravid.

Do you have any links for the Nikon 10x25 IS? I have heard of the Canon 10x20 IS, but not the Nikon 10x25 IS. Sounds interesting.

 

[[email protected]]

I don't think anything below an 8x32, which includes an 8x30 or 8x25, are a good choice for a serious birding binocular. They are fine for pocket carry and occasional use when you don't have your main binocular, but IMO they are far too finicky for eye placement and in poor light forget it. If you HAD to choose between the Zeiss Victory 8x25 or Nikon M7 8x30 and being able to carry it in your pocket wasn't crucial, the bigger glass would be a better birding tool. There is no way a few % better transmission is going to make up for 5 mm of aperture in ease of eye placement or low light performance.

 

[Dr. K]

My dad isn’t a birder. He carries small binos for general wildlife/landscape viewing while on canoe trips, i.e., just in case he seems something interesting.

I’m pretty well convinced by earlier posts that the monarch 7 is here to stay, though if I had the extra scratch I would surely consider hunting down a Nikon HG, Edg, or Swaro CL companion of similar size for him. Anything noticeably heavier would be left behind.

 

[[email protected]]

I have a new open box pair of Nikon HG 8x30 on sale on eBay for $749.95. They didn't work for me because the eye cups were too short for the eye relief because I have shallow eye sockets. If you want them, let me know, and I could cancel the listing and sell them direct to you for $700.00 shipped to your door. I ship fast. [email protected]. Nikon 8x30 Monarch HG Binoculars 16575 USA 18208165759 | eBay

 

[dorubird]

There is no way a few % better transmission is going to make up for 5 mm of aperture in ease of eye placement or low light performance.

Really exactly as you say, the binoculars with the larger exit pupil will have ease eye placement. And yes indded, in low light it doesn't really compensate few percent better light transmission in front of 5mm bigger aperture...

But I want to draw attention to something else. During the day, only on enough light, the binocular with higher transmission will be brighter, when the pupils of our eyes will close anyway below the exit pupils diameter of both binoculars. Maybe someone would say that: "on sunny days you don't need a high transmission binoculars because there is enough light anyway". But it is false because a binoculars with better light transmission will have more information in shady areas on sunny days than one with less transmission, even if it has a 5mm advantage at aperture. The Zeiss 8x25 has a light transmission at least 5% higher than the Nikon M7 8x30. For example, a bird on the bright sky will appear through Nikon in two or three shades of gray, and through Zeiss in a larger palette with greater dynamics of colors in shaded areas. So Zeiss has a big brightness advantage on sunny days and Nikon only a small advantage at night (I say "only" because at night the opening matters the most, but the transmission also has its contribution). But anyway, these binoculars will be used more during the day time

 

[[email protected]]

Really exactly as you say, the binoculars with the larger exit pupil will have ease eye placement. And yes indded, in low light it doesn't really compensate few percent better light transmission in front of 5mm bigger aperture...

But I want to draw attention to something else. During the day, only on enough light, the binocular with higher transmission will be brighter, when the pupils of our eyes will close anyway below the exit pupils diameter of both binoculars. Maybe someone would say that: "on sunny days you don't need a high transmission binoculars because there is enough light anyway". But it is false because a binoculars with better light transmission will have more information in shady areas on sunny days than one with less transmission, even if it has a 5mm advantage at aperture. The Zeiss 8x25 has a light transmission at least 5% higher than the Nikon M7 8x30. For example, a bird on the bright sky will appear through Nikon in two or three shades of gray, and through Zeiss in a larger palette with greater dynamics of colors in shaded areas. So Zeiss has a big brightness advantage on sunny days and Nikon only a small advantage at night (I say "only" because at night the opening matters the most, but the transmission also has its contribution). But anyway, these binoculars will be used more during the day time

I agree with what you are saying, and it is a good point. I have noticed that with higher transmission binoculars like my Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32's. They are so bright in the daytime and have such even field illumination, I think sometimes you think they have less contrast than a binocular with lower transmission, but they do not have less contrast. It is because they have higher transmission, and you can see into the shadows and darker areas of the FOV better even during the day and under bright light.