8x30/32 porro suggestions? (1 Viewer)

[William Lewis]

Hello.

I'm drawing up a shortlist for binoculars to try as a pair to take out this summer. I currently use habicht 7x42's and am very happy with them but wondered if there are any models that I'm missing that would be worth a try in the 8x30 porro category? I'm looking for a decent 130/140m at 1000 meters field of view, better close focus and good glare suppression which kind of rules out the 8x30 habichts. I'm very sensitive to ca so good ca suppression is essential.

Water proof would be good but isn't essential. Must be a conventional prism porro (with the exception of I.s models) with 35mm to 30mm objectives and a minimum of 7x magnification. I don't wear glasses and have decent vision. Has anyone got any more to add to my list?

My current short list.

Opticron srga (had a pair previously, know them to be good, current favourite)

Nikon eii (seems to have got quite pricey recently)

Steiner 8x30 military marine(might not be good as has I.F) but I'd be interested to know from someone with experience using them if once changed from 20m to infinity focused down to say 5m to 30m that smaller range would all be in focus?

Swarovski habicht 8x30 but see glare comments above!

Are image stabilised models worth considering? I like the look of the cannon 8x42's but don't see anything on the market of the same quality in 8 x 30 format?

Am I missing any?

Thanks in advance.

Will

 

[normjackson]

Nikon 8x32 SE if you're prepared to consider used :

CIVILIAN 8X30 PORRO PRISM PICKS

More recent though not sure about availability in UK :

orion 8x30 ed waterproof porro in stock! - Binoculars - Cloudy Nights

Page 1 of 2 - orion 8x30 ed waterproof porro in stock! - posted in Binoculars: So, Ive had my eye on these ever since the same looking bino was shown by APM with an anticipated launch date that never arrived. I was pleasantly surprised to find what looks like the same bino being offered for...

www.cloudynights.com

Not sure if the 8x30 version of this is going ahead. Pinac will probably know.

APM Binoculars MS 6x30

...

www.astroshop.eu

 

[[email protected]]

Forget the Steiner 8x30, APM 6x30 and Orion 8x30 porro's. I tried them all, and they are not near the optical quality of a Nikon EII 8x30, Nikon SE 8x32 or Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W. Image stabilized binoculars can be nice for the detail you can see, but even the best ones like the Fujinon 14x40 TSX have optical artifacts and will never reach the sheer optical quality of a superb porro or alpha binocular, and they can be heavy and bulky. For those reasons, I would recommend the Nikon EII 8x30, Nikon SE 8x32 (if you can find one) or the Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W. The Habicht is without a doubt the best optically with almost 95% transmission, but for a lot of people it can show glare under certain conditions, the focuser is tight, and the eye cups are small. I have found the Bino Bandit really helps with glare and the small eye cups on the Habicht 8x30 W and if you can tolerate the tight focuser it is going to give you the best view.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IRNPEWK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

 

[yarrellii]

Another interesting candidate can be the (now discontinued) Vixen Foresta 8x32 Porro, not to be confused with the roofs of similar name. I did a comparison against the Nikon EII 8x30 and the inexpensive Foresta beats the Nikon in some areas. You might want to give it a look:

Vixen Foresta 8x32 Porro (vs Nikon E2 8x30)

Expectations can be pretty tricky in life, and binoculars are no exception. I’ve been sometimes disappointed by binoculars that receive a whole lot of praise, like the Vanguard Endeavor ED2 10x42 or the Meopta Meostar 8x32 or even the almighty Dialyt 7x42 BGATP (yes, I know, I know, it is a...

www.birdforum.net

I got the Foresta from the US for very little money (I think it was something like 150 $, but that was a one off), nowadays you are most likely to import it from Japan (still, probably half the price of the EII).

I'm not 100 % sure, but a remarkably similar device is the Levenhuk Sherman Pro 8x32. It's quite inexpensive (although you better buy from somewhere with a good return policy, in case you find some QC issues) and I think it's a really solid performer as well. You can read Allbinos review here:

Levenhuk Sherman Pro 8x32 - binoculars review - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

 

[William Lewis]

Thanks for the advice. The livenhuk sherman looks interesting but I'm slightly put off by the comments about the bridge in the sample being so loose at to rock the whole thing out of collimation if held too tight.

The apm 6x30 seems like a useful tool for close work, field of view in summer does become more important. I actually enjoy birding more in winter a lot of the time as its much easier to see things! Although having tried to source them astroshop seems to be the only way and there reviews are mostly terrible!

Having already got a habicht in a different flavour I'm slightly reluctant to get another, and the field of view is still small compared to the other options.

Id still be interested in finding out more about the close focus behaviour of I.f binoculars though if anyone has experience. I know it's a pain to have to adjust but if you can just twiddle the eye pieces once when you walk into cover and have most things between lets say 5 and 30 meters in focus that would actually help in getting onto a bird.

I think i might see how this summer goes with the 7x42 habichts as I still find them a very enjoyable tool to use.
I'm getting better at having birds on the wing fall into the field of view 1st shot as such, managed it every time this weekend on the winter thrushes mainly, how i'll fare on house Martins and dragon flies remains to be seen! I can put the money on a train fare to Scotland to go see some golden eagles instead, we don't get them down here in Bedfordshire and I've made them my bird to see this year....

 

[[email protected]]

If you can tolerate an IF binocular and a little weight, the Fujinon FMTR-SX 7x50 is an awesome binocular. The close focus is 32 feet, and anything beyond that to infinity you won't have to worry about focusing anyway! For $700 they are a bargain. Fujinon also made a FMTR-SX 8x30 which were a good IF binocular but being discontinued it is hard to find now.

Review: Nikon 8x32 SE vs. Fujinon 8x30 FMTR-SX vs. Hensoldt 8x30 Fero-D 16

 

[yarrellii]

@William Lewis If you're interested in the EII but find it too pricey, a nice idea is to get the last iteration of the previous E series. The multicoated (C) series. It's easy to tell because of the lettering and the C. You can usually find them (although not every week) for somewhere between 250 - 300 € and the view is remarkable, at nearly half the price of the EII. I currently own the 10x35 and it's a great little bino. I recently saw an 8x30 go for less than 300 €.

As for the FOV of the 8x30 Habicht, I wouldn't worry too much. 131/1000 is really respectable, I don't think you would feel lacking in that department. However, what really lets the 8x30 Habicht down for birding (especially for following birds on the wing or under foliage) is the hard focus. I had one and really enjoyed it, but just couldn't live with it for birding. With a 7x42 is not that bad, given the increased depth of field, but I don't think the 8x30 Habicht is suited for "fast birding", like what you just described.

As for IF, I've tried it in the past (both with 8x30 and mainly with 7x, because of the advantage of depth of field) but I just couldn't get on with it for "regular birding" (as in varied habitats). If you only do marshes or shore, where distantes are usually large, then it could just be acceptable (although I still think is very limited), but I wouldn't recommend and IF for birding. That's my experience at least.

 

[dries1]

"@William Lewis If you're interested in the EII but find it too pricey, a nice idea is to get the last iteration of the previous E series. The multicoated (C) series. It's easy to tell because of the lettering and the C. You can usually find them (although not every week) for somewhere between 250 - 300 € and the view is remarkable, at nearly half the price of the EII. I currently own the 10x35 and it's a great little bino. I recently saw an 8x30 go for less than 300 €".

This from yarrellii is sound advice, the 8X30 Criterion is an excellent glass, and yes they can be found in good shape, (god knows they made many). It is also quite portable, and would be great for that train ride.

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi William,

For an economical, high quality 8x30, I strongly second Yarrellii’s choice of the multi-coated Nikon E.
For a superior overview, see Roger Vine at: Nikon 8x30 E Review

And for more detail, see various posts at: EII - Increased Brightness following on from 100th Anniversary Edition

The multi-coated E series was made between 1988 and 1998, and at the time was Nikon's premium general purpose binocular line.
Nearly 50,000 8x30's were made, with serial numbers from #400,000 to 448,642+. See post #10 in the link above.
So you can be picky, as there’s plenty to choose from.

For me, a big plus of the E in comparison to the much favoured EII, is that the already wide 145 m FOV of the E is perfectly comfortable.
In contrast, I never find the 154 m FOV of the EII restful. See posts #20 and 21 (with the latter by Dennis).

And while the image of the E is not as bright as current premium Porro choices, it’s certainly not obviously dark especially for summer use. See post #3.

There's not a whole lot that can go wrong with the basic Porro design, but if there is a problem it's likely to be immediately obvious.
So if shopping in person, a bad example is easily avoided. And if shopping on the net, just make sure you can return a unit that's not as advertised.


John

 

[dorubird]

I would balance between E2 or Habicht.
The contrast is similar in both binoculars, but the center resolution is a bit better at Habicht and is also brighter.
But compared to E2, Habicht has more glare, slightly more chromatic aberrations, weaker edge resolution (even if it has narrower FOV) and stiffer focus.
I had the opportunity try on and to buy Swarovski Habicht 8x30 but mainly due to the small eyerelief and the presence of glare I finally chose to buy E2.
I personally like E2 more, having a greater immersion and ease of viewing for the first time I looked through it!

 

[Hermann]

Forget the Steiner 8x30, APM 6x30 and Orion 8x30 porro's. I tried them all, and they are not near the optical quality of a Nikon EII 8x30, Nikon SE 8x32 or Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W.

Did you actually use the APM for some time in the field? I find they aren't optically quite in the same class as the Nikons and the Habicht mentioned, however, they're still pretty good and far better than I expected at their price point, even in a thorough comparison with the Habicht 7x42. In fact, I used them on a daily basis on a trip to the Alps last autumn, and I felt I didn't miss much. 6x is, however, a bit low as far as I'm concerned.

The Nikons and the Habicht: IMO the Nikon SE is overall clearly the best of the lot. However, the Nikons are not waterproof, and that may well be somewhat problematic in a country like the UK with its highly changeable weather. In addition the SE is out of production, and I'm not sure there will be spare parts (like the rubber eye cups!) if something bad happens.

I would recommend the Nikon EII 8x30, Nikon SE 8x32 (if you can find one) or the Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W. The Habicht is without a doubt the best optically with almost 95% transmission, but for a lot of people it can show glare under certain conditions, the focuser is tight, and the eye cups are small.

The eye cup problem is easily remedied by using the green rubber eye cups of the rubberarmoured 7x42/10x40. However, the stiff focuser is a problem. Not so much with the 7x42, but with the 8x30 (and, even more so, the 10x40).

Hermann

 

[Hermann]

Id still be interested in finding out more about the close focus behaviour of I.f binoculars though if anyone has experience. I know it's a pain to have to adjust but if you can just twiddle the eye pieces once when you walk into cover and have most things between lets say 5 and 30 meters in focus that would actually help in getting onto a bird.

I've got several IF binoculars, among them the Hensoldt Fero-D-16 (8x30) and the Hensoldt Fero-D17 (7x50). For serious birding centre focusing is a must IMO, unless you only bird in wide, open spaces. For woodland birding IF simply doesn't work. You're much too slow in getting onto a bird.

Hermann

 

[BKoh]

Are image stabilised models worth considering? I like the look of the cannon 8x42's but don't see anything on the market of the same quality in 8 x 30 format?

I have the Canon IS 10x42L. Optically excellent and IS boosts it beyond any non-IS binocular. Tradeoffs are weight (1.2kg) and ergonomics (brick). I usually use my Swaro 8x32 EL FP during the day and use the Canon at night. The Canon resists glare much better than the Swaro.

Lighter Canon IS for consideration:
(older models, optically only OK)
10x30, 12x36
(newer models, optically very good)
8x20, 10x32, 12x32

Nikon IS: 10x25

 

[William Lewis]

@William Lewis If you're interested in the EII but find it too pricey, a nice idea is to get the last iteration of the previous E series. The multicoated (C) series. It's easy to tell because of the lettering and the C. You can usually find them (although not every week) for somewhere between 250 - 300 € and the view is remarkable, at nearly half the price of the EII. I currently own the 10x35 and it's a great little bino. I recently saw an 8x30 go for less than 300 €.

As for the FOV of the 8x30 Habicht, I wouldn't worry too much. 131/1000 is really respectable, I don't think you would feel lacking in that department. However, what really lets the 8x30 Habicht down for birding (especially for following birds on the wing or under foliage) is the hard focus. I had one and really enjoyed it, but just couldn't live with it for birding. With a 7x42 is not that bad, given the increased depth of field, but I don't think the 8x30 Habicht is suited for "fast birding", like what you just described.

As for IF, I've tried it in the past (both with 8x30 and mainly with 7x, because of the advantage of depth of field) but I just couldn't get on with it for "regular birding" (as in varied habitats). If you only do marshes or shore, where distantes are usually large, then it could just be acceptable (although I still think is very limited), but I wouldn't recommend and IF for birding. That's my experience at least.

Thanks all.

I've had a look around at the nikon 8x30 e and there do seem to be a few about. I'm looking for the serial number on them but some seem to be hidden in the photos, but there do look to be some good uns around - [MINT w/Case + Strap] Nikon Binoculars 8X30 8.3° WF From JAPAN #356 | eBay that's seems to be a c spec one in line with dries suggestion, also thanks for the link to the review John.

Prices still seem reasonable, has anyone tried them against the srga? Just weighing up the new vs used options, as per Herman's comments about spares availability. Also thanks for the advice, seems like I. F are off the agenda, shame as I quite liked the looks of those steiners.

Dorubird, I'd love to drop 5/£600 on some eii but they are an awful lot of money, I think I'd have to get financial approval from Mrs Lewis before trying them out though!

Bkoh. God those I.s bins are expensive, I know you can spend more but there's really doesn't seem to be anything worth buying for under £1000 which seems crazy, hopefully the situation will improve soon.

Also Dennis you seem to have formed an opinion on most binoculars, what do you think of the nikon e c?

All the best gents.

Will

 

[BKoh]

Bkoh. God those I.s bins are expensive, I know you can spend more but there's really doens seem to be anything worth buying for under £1000 which seems crazy, hopefully the situation will improve soon.

Amazon UK prices (just checked) for Canon IS models:

8x20 £393
10x20 £479
12x36 £699
10x30 £469
10x32 £1,049
12x32 £1,151
10x42L £1,508

8x20 is small and well-reviewed.

10x30 and 12x36 are older models, many happy users, just beware of melting rubber.

10x32 and 12x32 are useful all-rounders, but for those prices I would buy both 8x20 and 12x36, a far more versatile setup.

10x42L best optics but expensive, heavy and unwieldy. Fantastic in use, not fun to hang around the neck, try a chest harness or a shoulder sling.

 

[wllmspd]

I got a secondhand pair of E and then upgraded to the EII. The main obvious difference is the brightness, but otherwise I was perfectly happy with the E. these are compact and light binoculars that give nice views. I’ve only once had my EII fog up and that was a very damp and cold day.

Peter

 

[William Lewis]

Amazon UK prices (just checked) for Canon IS models:

8x20 £393
10x20 £479
12x36 £699
10x30 £469
10x32 £1,049
12x32 £1,151
10x42L £1,508

8x20 is small and well-reviewed.

10x30 and 12x36 are older models, many happy users, just beware of melting rubber.

10x32 and 12x32 are useful all-rounders, but for those prices I would buy both 8x20 and 12x36, a far more versatile setup.

10x42L best optics but expensive, heavy and unwieldy. Fantastic in use, not fun to hang around the neck, try a chest harness or a shoulder sling.

Having read canips excellent review of the cannon 8x20 is it does seem like an interesting avenue to persue for summer birding. I thoroughly respect his assessments and was especially pleased to hear that he found them more than comparable to a decent 8x30 non stabilised. I've been wanting to see how I'd get on with is as durability and weather proofing not withstanding it does look like a worwhile candidate to fit the bill and there's always the 7x42 habichts to use when the weather is not so bright. A tasting menu of food for thought!

 

[dries1]

Try the 8X20 first before commitment - to see if views are comfortable, it is a after all a small aperture.

 

[William Lewis]

Try the 8X20 first before commitment - to see if views are comfortable, it is a after all a small aperture.

Yes, the field of view is small as well.

 

[normjackson]

As regards your questions about IF binoculars when go into cover, I guess you're satisfied with Yarrellii's and Hermann's responses. Still why not try some tests on your Habicht in subdued light to see what is an acceptable range of focus you can achieve with them after trying to set an "optimum focus" setting on them. If you're quite picky about sharpness and/or your accommodation is less than brilliant it's possible you'll find the range quite a bit less than you thought ie. the sharpness of objects even quite close together can be "tweaked" with a little movement of the focus ring. In conditions where there is very little light and your pupil is wide open (or with an inferior binocular) the range of "equivalent sharpness" might then extend again.

Just checked the Habicht 7x42 close focus spec : 3.5m is pretty good for a Porro. Probably a fair bit better than a Nikon E 8x30; just checked, Henry Link found 17' for his in his EII review.

Hopefully you're happy to tolerate some lateral colour since even the better wide angle models here under discussion will likely yield more than your narrower FOV 7x42.