New SF 8x32 delivered today but... (2 Viewers)

[ZDHart]

You put a tear in my eye ZD… yes we were on a damn good path of solving some of the political and corporate influenced mistakes made over the last 30 to 40 years. I know what your saying. Unless some stupid group of jellyfish backbones mess up unbelievably, 2022 should be a good year. But don’t hold your breath, seems to me victories have been dropped at the last moment by people who should’ve won.

I don’t wanna get into too much detail here because it’s possible we could be censored if opinions don’t lineup with those in charge. And I would be disappointed to lose stimulating conversation and banter that bird forum has to offer. Thats being said after I just left a store that everybody has to wear a mask and if you’re not vaccinated you can’t even go into a restaurant.

The topic was SF issues that a few people had. I have to say that we’ve heard issues with the other two Alpha Companies as well if you will. Can’t even imagine the return rate on lesser quality made optics.
I love the new additions to my collection, UVHD+ and the SF. You were instrumental for me trying the Leica. Which was supposed to be a comparison of the two and return the one that had less desirability. Unfortunately I fell in love with the Leica’s and the SF is way too good to return.

Thank you
merry Christmas

Paul

Paul... you and I are in lock-step agreement. On many things!

I'm so glad that you gave the Leica UVHD+ binoculars a go... they (8x32, 10x32, 7x42) are truly superb instruments, and my absolute favorites!

In addition, I very much enjoy my three SFs (8x32, 10x32, 10x42) as well.

We're so blessed to be able to savor such fabulous binoculars. While Leica seem to be lower in popularity on the alpha list, on this forum, I have to say that their UVHD+ models have totally impressed the HECK out of me, in comparison... right alongside SF and NL!

Now, I guess I really should bag a Noctivid... just for good measure! Haha! 🤣

And, my friend, a VERY Merry Christmas to you too! (Don't forget to take in some good HAM along with that delicious turkey, while you're at it!)

 

[PYRTLE]

I don’t wanna get into too much detail here because it’s possible we could be censored if opinions don’t lineup with those in charge.
Paul

Only for going off topic, and it will be a gentle hint. There is always Ruffled Feathers where political and general debates take place including things you've mentioned.
Cheers.

 

[ZDHart]

Back to the topic at hand. We have a few members that order high-end Binocular, SF, EL, NL and get a bad unit and suddenly it’s not worth to try to get another one.

Yeah... It's a quitter's mind set. Quitters tend to be losers in the long run. Those who keep at it, those who persevere tend to win.

 

[Paultricounty]

Paul... you and I are in lock-step agreement. On many things!

I'm so glad that you gave the Leica UVHD+ binoculars a go... they (8x32, 10x32, 7x42) are truly superb instruments, and my absolute favorites!

In addition, I very much enjoy my three SFs (8x32, 10x32, 10x42) as well.

We're so blessed to be able to savor such fabulous binoculars. While Leica seem to be lower in popularity on the alpha list, on this forum, I have to say that their UVHD+ models have totally impressed the HECK out of me, in comparison... right alongside SF and NL!

Now, I guess I really should bag a Noctivid... just for good measure! Haha! 🤣

And, my friend, a VERY Merry Christmas to you too! (Don't forget to take in some good HAM along with that delicious turkey, while you're at it!)

Great minds think alike 😄.

I got the 8x32, I seem to be partial lately to the 8’s in everything. I have a staple of 8’s. All the way back to the 1970’s Jena jenoptens , Nikon A, EC, EII, Habicht’s all porros (love that DOF) as well as numerous roofs from Kowa, Zeiss, Swaro and Nikon.

I think they don’t sell as well for a few reasons, they go back almost 20 years other than some coating improvements they’re the same among all the newer giants. The eye relief definitely not good for spectacle wearers, they have smaller oculars and the eye box is not the most relaxed especially when compared to SF, EL or NL. But to use a phrase as someone said here 😛, they’re delicious.

i’ve been told we’re doing fish this Christmas. Fried flounder and shrimp for a change. But I do have ham in the freezer.

be well.

 

[Paultricounty]

Only for going off topic, and it will be a gentle hint. There is always Ruffled Feathers where political and general debates take place including things you've mentioned.
Cheers.

Lol. That’s why if you notice I abruptly ended ideological rant and went right back to and ended with, the topic at hand.
Thank you 🙏🏼

happy holidays

 

[PYRTLE]

I did, and also eavesdropping on your musings....👂
I'd love a pair of 8 x 32 SF to go with my 42s but the little 8 FLs still hold a very special place for me.
Goodnight all.

 

[Paultricounty]

I did, and also eavesdropping on your musings....👂
I'd love a pair of 8 x 32 SF to go with my 42s but the little 8 FLs still hold a very special place for me.
Goodnight all.

I wouldn’t yearn for the SF if you have an FL. I have my eye on one of those but because I have the SF it’s not gonna happen. What I’m looking for if you have a come across or know someone is the Nikon 8 x 32SE.

Thank you and merry Christmas

 

[ZDHart]

Great minds think alike 😄.

I got the 8x32, I seem to be partial lately to the 8’s in everything. I have a staple of 8’s. All the way back to the 1970’s Jena jenoptens , Nikon A, EC, EII, Habicht’s all porros (love that DOF) as well as numerous roofs from Kowa, Zeiss, Swaro and Nikon.

I think they don’t sell as well for a few reasons, they go back almost 20 years other than some coating improvements they’re the same among all the newer giants. The eye relief definitely not good for spectacle wearers, they have smaller oculars and the eye box is not the most relaxed especially when compared to SF, EL or NL. But to use a phrase as someone said here 😛, they’re delicious.

i’ve been told we’re doing fish this Christmas. Fried flounder and shrimp for a change. But I do have ham in the freezer.

be well.

Oh yes... I believe that the UVHD+ description as being "delicious" is all mine. Regardless... Leica's UVHD+ views simply ARE delicious! 😁

Fried flounder and shrimp... oh man, that sounds absolutely delectable to my pallete!

We would be all over that at our house, here in Arizona.

We're veering toward ham this year, but there is nothing like roast turkey that speaks of the holidays for us. Slatherd in gravy, along with mashed potatoes, green beans, dinner rolls, and all the other goodies.

It may be since 1776 since we established our independence, but the Thanksgiving dinner treats that we here celebrate fully, have never wavered from our early settlers! Jeez, 245 years since our independence. That said, we REVERE our British heritage! God Save the Queen!

 

[Paultricounty]

Oh yes... I believe that the UVHD+ description as being "delicious" is all mine. Regardless... Leica's UVHD+ views simply ARE delicious! 😁

Fried flounder and shrimp... oh man, that sounds absolutely delectable to my pallete!

We would be all over that at our house, here in Arizona.

We're veering toward ham this year, but there is nothing like roast turkey that speaks of the holidays for us. Slatherd in gravy, along with mashed potatoes, green beans, dinner rolls, and all the other goodies.

It may be since 1776 since we established our independence, but the Thanksgiving dinner treats that we here celebrate fully, have never wavered from our early settlers! Jeez, 245 years since our independence. That said, we REVERE our British heritage! God Save the Queen!

They really are a special Binocular. Some nights I sit on the couch with the Leica’s in hand looking at the Christmas tree across the room, (we have some nice doves on the tree) , while reading forum posts 🤪. Do we got it bad or what….

We usually do the whole turkey thing as well but this year we’re going to my daughter on Christmas Eve. It appears they’re making the traditional turkey dinner with all the sides. Oh they’re also having meatballs and sausage in a marinara sauce. where our Italian friends like to say, gravy. My son-in-law‘s brothers wife is Korean, and she makes this beef dish that is to die for.

So we figured we would do something a little bit different on Christmas Day. Lobster was thrown out as an option as well, but considering how much money I spent on toys this year I suddenly hinted how about flounder and shrimp 😄. It’s all good though as long as everybody’s together another year.

Keep the posts coming my friend

 

[Patudo]

I bought in 1984ish Zeiss 1040B made in West Germany binos. They were all I had till the summer of 2020. I still own them, will not sell them, they are great. I also bought at the same time Leitz Trinovid 10x40BA. My sister still has those, my BIL and I use them to go birding whenever I get to Baltimore. They to are great, and I'm glad I still get to use them. ... Indeed mechanically both were and are still great. Your point about modern glass and coatings is partly correct, but then theres optical features like FOV, flat field (if thats your thing), eye relief, indeed waterproofing, to. My ELs are every bit as nice, and better tools. Hopefully you're not saying optics to the side, modern binos are not the equal mechanically, durability-wise, of those of comparable quality levels?

... we need to think about return rate, as distinct from # returned. Ive written about this in other places here... Indeed there may be more returned today, do to higher volume made. But whats the % return compared to total production? We dont know. Those are proprietary numbers. I'd bet the best of the best has lower rates today, in spite of BF teeth gnashing. Jan was right a couple days ago saying something, and I'll paraphrase, "A purchaser of a great bino will influence 10 people to buy, the purchaser of a lemon will complain and effect the choice of a hundred."

The verdict on the long term durability of modern binoculars can only really be delivered in 30 or 40 years' time. Some of the Zeiss Wests and Leitzes still used today have been in service for longer than that, they have more than stood the test of time. I appreciate that longevity of service is not the sole criterion by which a binocular is measured and, in all fairness, feel sure a good many modern binoculars will be giving good service for decades (although a fair number will not). My point was that although the binoculars of the 50s/60s/70s would not be able to survive the kind of brutal treatment a Conquest HD could, the best of them have a quality of workmanship that still impresses. But you know that yourself - you've owned and used two of the classics of classics.

Your point re return/problem rate of older binoculars is a very good one. I too would like to know the numbers/percentages and how they compare with today's products. My gut feeling is that the percentage of binoculars with issues may indeed have been lower in the old days, but binoculars were not as complex then and were made in smaller numbers, allowing more of the production to be checked. No doubt if the internet had existed back then there would have been plenty of Leitz and Zeiss owners griping about real or imagined issues, probably similar ones to those discussed today (the recent discussion about Swarovski armouring, for instance, recalls the leatherette used by Leitz that had a tendency to flake off). Maybe some of the contributors here with long term dealer or service/repair experience could be persuaded to provide more authoritative info/commentary...

 

[ZDHart]

They really are a special Binocular. Some nights I sit on the couch with the Leica’s in hand looking at the Christmas tree across the room, (we have some nice doves on the tree) , while reading forum posts 🤪. Do we got it bad or what….

We usually do the whole turkey thing as well but this year we’re going to my daughter on Christmas Eve. It appears they’re making the traditional turkey dinner with all the sides. Oh they’re also having meatballs and sausage in a marinara sauce. where our Italian friends like to say, gravy. My son-in-law‘s brothers wife is Korean, and she makes this beef dish that is to die for.

So we figured we would do something a little bit different on Christmas Day. Lobster was thrown out as an option as well, but considering how much money I spent on toys this year I suddenly hinted how about flounder and shrimp 😄. It’s all good though as long as everybody’s together another year.

Keep the posts coming my friend

Merry Christmas, Paul! It's all wonderful, isn't it! Turkey, ham, prime rib, Italian meatballs, Korean beef, flounder and shrimp, the list goes on! (I'd go for a sashimi and shrimp tempura Christmas, too! Or Dungeness crab enchiladas.)

The Christmas tradition is such a blessing to observe... with so many wonderful foods to enjoy. Life is good!

May God bless you, my friend.

 

[Peregrine Took]

Very well said, I couldn’t agree more. You’re in the states like me. I can’t speak about European or other Asian countries perceptions but I know people here don’t get it.

Thanks, but I'm in the UK (the clue is in the Union Jack)... unless the Cotswolds have been included in some sort of US/UK trade deal they're not telling us about!

Others (on these pages) are confusing China in the last 30 years with Japan in the 60s and 70s. Japan was chastised and humbled after WWII and determined to rebuild, which they set about with a degree of humility and discipline. They have not engaged in military combat since 1945, have no nuclear weapons and are a liberal democracy.

The issue with China today, is not the quality of their output, but the political motivations, and the military and economic power of a totalitarian regime bent on world domination (this is fact, not hyperbole). Things will come to a head militarily with Taiwan, within the next 10 years or so.

One thing we Brits seem to ignore is that the Chinese state has a lingering hatred for the British for what we did in the mid-19th century and the Opium Wars. Which makes it even more ironic and hypocritical, that in Africa and other third world nations, the Chinese are creating debt traps - deliberately feeding an addiction to borrowing and debt from which these poorer countries cannot escape.

In the meantime, the British Conservatives have an influential China Research Group that is dedicated to research and debate on the threat posed by a totalitarian China. Such groups are encouraging a cooling of our dependence on China - not only as a source of manufacturing, but their funding of, for instance, British universities. Meanwhile, China sets up similar, so-called 'UK friends of China', groups that are little more than a front for Communist Party agents (not always Chinese, but often naive UK academics and politicians) and their propaganda.

It seems we are finally waking up to the infiltration by China into our institutions and the issues faced by their economic power, and there are encouraging signs of a backlash. This needs to happen globally and quickly... the world has been sleepwalking into the trap laid by an emerging China for at least 30 years.

.

 

[Paultricounty]

Thanks, but I'm in the UK (the clue is in the Union Jack)... unless the Cotswolds have been included in some sort of US/UK trade deal they're not telling us about!

Others (on these pages) are confusing China in the last 30 years with Japan in the 60s and 70s. Japan was chastised and humbled after WWII and determined to rebuild, which they set about with a degree of humility and discipline. They have not engaged in military combat since 1945, have no nuclear weapons and are a liberal democracy.

The issue with China today, is not the quality of their output, but the political motivations, and the military and economic power of a totalitarian regime bent on world domination (this is fact, not hyperbole). Things will come to a head militarily with Taiwan, within the next 10 years or so.

One thing we Brits seem to ignore is that the Chinese state has a lingering hatred for the British for what we did in the mid-19th century and the Opium Wars. Which makes it even more ironic and hypocritical, that in Africa and other third world nations, the Chinese are creating debt traps - deliberately feeding an addiction to borrowing and debt from which these poorer countries cannot escape.

In the meantime, the British Conservatives have an influential China Research Group that is dedicated to research and debate on the threat posed by a totalitarian China. Such groups are encouraging a cooling of our dependence on China - not only as a source of manufacturing, but their funding of, for instance, British universities. Meanwhile, China sets up similar, so-called 'UK friends of China', groups that are little more than a front for Communist Party agents (not always Chinese, but often naive UK academics and politicians) and their propaganda.

It seems we are finally waking up to the infiltration by China into our institutions and the issues faced by their economic power, and there are encouraging signs of a backlash. This needs to happen globally and quickly... the world has been sleepwalking into the trap laid by an emerging China for at least 30 years.

.

Sorry might’ve thought I was replying to another member. I’ve been following this relationship of Geo politics with China for over 30 Years. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to deduce that throwing money at a communist country could be a problem in the future. Our politicians mostly are morons to think that if you make it easier for them they’ll convert to democracy. What could go wrong, right… You would think or want to believe that these we just bad policy choices or mistakes by our leaders, but it is much deeper than that, in my opinion.

China learned a great deal from Americas Cold War with the Soviet Union. One of the things they’ve learned is that your never coming through the front door against Americas military strength and establishment. Our country is literally a killing machine on a level the world has never seen. People talk around the world about who makes the highest quality of this or that, America doesn’t seem to be in that list, until the topic of having the ability to destroy anything, anywhere comes up. China watched and learned that without an economy they can’t compete with the US militarily , they’d never have a chance.

Now after decades of stupid politicians, controlled by large corporate interests they with our help, have become the largest, strongest economy in the world, which will only continue. With that and their resource abilities they have been able to open up the back door and infiltrate all parts of the US and European economies as well as academia. i’ve studied geopolitics since I was 18 years old, and I’ll tell you this, this is a huge problem that in someway, shape or form it’s not going to be good in the next decade, or sooner.

Not long from now you will have a China that has double the size of the economy of the rest of the world together, if things continue the way they are. You’ll have a China that will have a navy twice the size of the US and Europe together. And that’s not even to me nation offensive and defensive weapons systems that a more advanced than anything in the world. I believe China is the greatest threat to freedom and our way of life than any other threat humanity has faced In modern history. More so than the Soviet union ever was. This is a Nazi Germany with a huge economy and nuclear weapons with tentacles reaching around the world.

I fear for our children and grandchildren.

Oh, I’d return the SF for replacement until I got a good one. 😁

On that note, you have a wonderful Merry Christmas and and happy new year.

Paul

 

[Troubador]

A reminder to all members that Ruffled Feathers exists for the purpose of accomodating discussions of a geo-political nature and many other topics. Please take your political views there.

LEE
MODERATOR

 

[eronald]

A reminder to all members that Ruffled Feathers exists for the purpose of accomodating discussions of a geo-political nature and many other topics. Please take your political views there.

LEE
MODERATOR

Lee,

May I wish you, those close to you, and indeed all readers of this, some politically correct and pronounless happy end of year festivities, followed by a happy new calendar year, without ruffling your feathers? This is customary in the country where I presently live.

As for the designated topic of this forum, Zeiss, the real question is whether the fuss is worth the bother, or whether one may prefer to just say no. My answer would be wait and buy used - at a 50% discount one can live with a few minor issues

And I see quite a few fairly cheap grey SF x42 popping up on the french noticeboards.

I think a lot of reviewers are industry insiders, supplied with cherry picked samples, possessing ample provisions of spare binoculars and access to good service via their company contacts - they just don’t know how annoying it is to be stuck with your main binocular only 85% functional, and therefore take a rather relaxed view of the delays inflicted by defective item returns or service.

By the way, I left my Victory Pocket 8x25 at home - after mucho fuss and bother, I just don’t trust them to take normal wear and tear. I may post them as a swap item.

Edmund

PS One of my friends was a Canon explorer of light with a $6K Canon pro camera. The back screen had a tint. Canon told him it couldn’t be fixed. This is the sort of minor bug which drives you batty. He reached out tho his Canon contact - the screen got fixed. He told me the story during an interview just to point out that he knew exactly how frustrating life is for normal buyers.

 

[Paultricounty]

Lee,

May I wish you, those close to you, and indeed all readers of this, some politically correct and pronounless happy end of year festivities, followed by a happy new calendar year, without ruffling your feathers? This is customary in the country where I presently live.

As for the designated topic of this forum, Zeiss, the real question is whether the fuss is worth the bother, or whether one may prefer to just say no. My answer would be wait and buy used - at a 50% discount one can live with a few minor issues

By the way, I left my Victory Pocket 8x25 at home - after mucho fuss and bother, I just don’t trust them to take normal wear and tear. I may post them as a swap item.

Edmund

Happy holidays and a happy healthy New Year.

Of course we all make our own decisions on what is worth our time. But I don’t really get the fuss thing. Takes the same amount of time to put the binoculars back in the box as it did to take them out of the box. The retailers here in the states, most of the time will give you a free return shipping ticket. So what’s the fuss.… I guess driving to the drop off center could be a little out of the way, but you have 30 days and usually and I would think in that time frame, your out any way going shopping somewhere.

It’s obvious the desire to purchase these high-end Alpha Binoculars was a motivating factor from the beginning, The. User had the dilemma of the deciding if they wanted to invest that much money right from the start. I am sure that the research, reading and listening to reviews of these wonderful instruments was time well spent. Sometimes there are other motives that once we get a bad copy, it’s a good opportunity to have a reason to send them back and not have to deal with the guilt of the purchase. 🤭

And I would love to be notified when a SF, EL, NL, Noctivid, Ultravid, etc. etc. is selling for a 50% discount. I’d pay a finders fee for that. 😁✌🏼

Thank you.
Paul

 

[eronald]

I took about 6 months to get my dropped off diopter knob on my 8x25 VP solved - the fuss and bother issue is there, and my advice to peo

Happy holidays and a happy healthy New Year.

Of course we all make our own decisions on what is worth our time. But I don’t really get the fuss thing. Takes the same amount of time to put the binoculars back in the box as it did to take them out of the box. The retailers here in the states, most of the time will give you a free return shipping ticket. So what’s the fuss.… I guess driving to the drop off center could be a little out of the way, but you have 30 days and usually and I would think in that time frame, your out any way going shopping somewhere.

It’s obvious the desire to purchase these high-end Alpha Binoculars was a motivating factor from the beginning, The. User had the dilemma of the deciding if they wanted to invest that much money right from the start. I am sure that the research, reading and listening to reviews of these wonderful instruments was time well spent. Sometimes there are other motives that once we get a bad copy, it’s a good opportunity to have a reason to send them back and not have to deal with the guilt of the purchase. 🤭

And I would love to be notified when a SF, EL, NL, Noctivid, Ultravid, etc. etc. is selling for a 50% discount. I’d pay a finders fee for that. 😁✌🏼

Thank you.
Paul

I just checked on the local ads, and random Zeiss and Leica bins are there. Especially the 10x50 and rangefinder binoculars or other larger heavier items tend tio sell at a heavy discount used. I think the hunters sell their old binoculars when they buy the newest latest thing, they don’t collect like the birdwatchers, creating a glut of the high magnification large objective glasses which work well looking into forests etc.

Edmund

 

[Paultricounty]

I took about 6 months to get my dropped off diopter knob on my 8x25 VP solved - the fuss and bother issue is there, and my advice to peo

I just checked on the local ads, and random Zeiss and Leica bins are there. Especially the 10x50 and rangefinder binoculars or other larger heavier items tend tio sell at a heavy discount used. I think the hunters sell their old binoculars when they buy the newest latest thing, they don’t collect like the birdwatchers, creating a glut of the high magnification large objective glasses which work well looking into forests etc.

Edmund

Hi Edmund,

I missed your advice to people, it got cut off.

I’ll stand my ground with my statement that, I don’t think there’s much fuss on returning defective binoculars. I were speaking of somebody buying a brand new pair of binoculars from a retailer that would pay for the shipping and replace it for free with a new pair. To me that just sounds very reasonable in time and effort.

Of course when we’re talking about a damaged Binocular that we’ve owned for a while or past the return window that’s a whole other story. How long repairs would take has a lot to do with the company doing the repairs, the item that’s broken, the parts availability and even the time of year you’re sending them in. That to me is always a fuss or more like a pain in the neck.

Occasionally I’ll see those deals on the larger Binoculars of a generation or two ago that have some deep discounts. But I’m not seeing any SF‘s, EL’s, NL‘s Nocs or Ultras for 50% discount. As I said I’d be all over that. 😄

Paul

 

[eronald]

Hi Edmund,

I missed your advice to people, it got cut off.

I’ll stand my ground with my statement that, I don’t think there’s much fuss on returning defective binoculars. I were speaking of somebody buying a brand new pair of binoculars from a retailer that would pay for the shipping and replace it for free with a new pair. To me that just sounds very reasonable in time and effort.

Of course when we’re talking about a damaged Binocular that we’ve owned for a while or past the return window that’s a whole other story. How long repairs would take has a lot to do with the company doing the repairs, the item that’s broken, the parts availability and even the time of year you’re sending them in. That to me is always a fuss or more like a pain in the neck.

Occasionally I’ll see those deals on the larger Binoculars of a generation or two ago that have some deep discounts. But I’m not seeing any SF‘s, EL’s, NL‘s Nocs or Ultras for 50% discount. As I said I’d be all over that. 😄

Paul

Too bad for you - it seems you need better glasses to be able to find binoculars
I think the EL is going to be coming down the chute next season as the NL becomes the must have accessory for the hunt crowd.


Edmund

 

[Paultricounty]

Too bad for you - it seems you need better glasses to be able to find binoculars
I think the EL is going to be coming down the chute next season as the NL becomes the must have accessory for the hunt crowd.


Edmund

That’s not what my optometrist says. She says I see her just fine. Is it possible your statement about 50% discounts was hyperbole, just maybe.…

Merry Christmas
Paul